Please Help AIPA

Hello, I need help to improve my recipe. Did this recipe a long time ago. Have used cascade + styrian goldins, not used columbus. Enjoyed how the malt profile balanced with the hops. It was more a good english india pale ale. This year I will compete in the national competition of my country, AMERICAN IPA style, and I need some tips from you guys. For a AIPA, I changed a little the hops, trying to put a citrus aroma. I believe cascade + columbus are a good blend, but I am wondering if Styrian goldins has a place in the recipe, because I enjoyed very much the flavour of the blend styrian goldins + cascade. For aroma, I add columbus and cascade. What do you guys think?

All Grain, US05, 5 gallons

Pilsner 2 row (1,8 SRM) Grain 76,9 %
Carahell (Weyermann) (12,7 SRM) Grain 6,2 %
Caramunich II (Weyermann) (60,9 SRM) Grain 6,2 %
Carared (Weyermann) (22,8 SRM) Grain 6,2 %
Vienna Malt (Weyermann) (4,1 SRM) Grain 4,6 %

1,01 oz Cascade [7,00%] FWH Hops 23,4 IBU
0,7 oz Styrian Goldings [5,40%] (20 min) Hops 7,1 IBU
0,5 oz Styrian Goldings [5,40%] (15 min) Hops 4,3 IBU
0,33 oz Cascade [5,50%] (15 min) Hops 2,9 IBU
0,5 oz Cascade [5,50%] (10 min) Hops 3,2 IBU
0,5 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14,00%] (7 min) Hops 6,1 IBU
0,7 oz Cascade [5,50%] (5 min) Hops 2,4 IBU
0,7 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14,00%] (2 min) Hops 2,6 IBU
0,84 oz Cascade [5,50%] (0 min)


Est Original Gravity: 1,071 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1,010 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 6,9 %
Bitterness: 52,0 IBU
Est Color: 11,8 SRM

I have some experience with the styrian goldings, and think they could be replaced by willamette or amarillo. Amarillo seems to be a bigger, bolder version of much the same flavor... Adds a little more citrus though

IBUs are a bit low for that gravity imo. That seems like a lot of crystal/carmel malts to use in an american IPA, 18.6% of the total grainbill if I read your numbers correctly. I would use that percentage of Vienna and a lower percentage of crystal to achieve your desired OG. Also I would look at bumping the IBUs to around 62 (tinseth). 60 minute addition to around 33-35 ibus and the rest coming from large amounts of late hop addtions. Colombus and Cascade do go well together and I don't think the Styrians are out of place, but they may get swallowed up by the bigger citrusy aromas and flavors of the american hops. Good luck to you.

I never used willliamet, but heard good things about him. Beersmith suggests williamet and fuggles as SG substitute

Styrian goldings really don't give the traditional "citrusy" American IPA flavors that judges would be looking for although you could use them if you like them.

For that grain bill, there is too much crystal malt for an American IPA. Here are the guidelines for American IPA:

Aroma: A prominent to intense hop aroma with a citrusy, floral, perfume-like, resinous, piney, and/or fruity character derived from American hops. Many versions are dry hopped and can have an additional grassy aroma, although this is not required. Some clean malty sweetness may be found in the background, but should be at a lower level than in English examples. Fruitiness, either from esters or hops, may also be detected in some versions, although a neutral fermentation character is also acceptable. Some alcohol may be noted.

Appearance: Color ranges from medium gold to medium reddish copper; some versions can have an orange-ish tint. Should be clear, although unfiltered dry-hopped versions may be a bit hazy. Good head stand with white to off-white color should persist.

Flavor: Hop flavor is medium to high, and should reflect an American hop character with citrusy, floral, resinous, piney or fruity aspects. Medium-high to very high hop bitterness, although the malt backbone will support the strong hop character and provide the best balance. Malt flavor should be low to medium, and is generally clean and malty sweet although some caramel or toasty flavors are acceptable at low levels. No diacetyl. Low fruitiness is acceptable but not required. The bitterness may linger into the aftertaste but should not be harsh. Medium-dry to dry finish. Some clean alcohol flavor can be noted in stronger versions. Oak is inappropriate in this style. May be slightly sulfury, but most examples do not exhibit this character.

Mouthfeel: Smooth, medium-light to medium-bodied mouthfeel without hop-derived astringency, although moderate to medium-high carbonation can combine to render an overall dry sensation in the presence of malt sweetness. Some smooth alcohol warming can and should be sensed in stronger (but not all) versions. Body is generally less than in English counterparts.

Overall Impression: A decidedly hoppy and bitter, moderately strong American pale ale.

History: An American version of the historical English style, brewed using American ingredients and attitude.

Ingredients: Pale ale malt (well-modified and suitable for single-temperature infusion mashing); American hops; American yeast that can give a clean or slightly fruity profile. Generally all-malt, but mashed at lower temperatures for high attenuation. Water character varies from soft to moderately sulfate. Versions with a noticeable Rye character (“RyePA”) should be entered in the Specialty category.
Vital Statistics: OG: 1.056 – 1.075
IBUs: 40 – 70 FG: 1.010 – 1.018
SRM: 6 – 15 ABV: 5.5 – 7.5%

I bolded the couple of points I was trying to make, but the guidelines are directly from the BJCP guidelines by which all entries will be judged.

I'd probably pick up some more hops- maybe some amarillo, simcoe, or centennial. Even willamette might go well with it and it's sorta kinda similar in some ways to the stryian goldings, but my preference would be for the first three hops varieties. If you want to stick with only columbus and cascade, I'd go with something like this:

Pilsner 2 row (1,8 SRM) Grain 80 %
Caramunich II (Weyermann) (60,9 SRM) Grain 4 %
Carared (Weyermann) (22,8 SRM) Grain 4 %
Vienna Malt (Weyermann) (4,1 SRM) Grain 7%
Corn sugar 5%

1 oz Columbus FWH
1 oz cascade 15 minutes
.5 oz columbus 10 minutes
1 oz cascade 10 minutes
1 oz cascade 5 minutes
.5 oz columbus 0 minutes
.5 oz cascade 0 minutes

dryhop with 1 oz cascade and .5 oz columbus (columbus is pretty strong flavored, so I like a little moderation with it.)

Guys, thanks for the tips! I am going to change some things with what I have on hand, them I show you how it will be

Fwiw, I'm drinking an apa now thats only amarillo and willamette. Its solid, but needs some simcoe or chinook to balance things out.

To me, willamette seems like a not so fruity cascade

Yooper, the corn sugar addition is to help me with drinkability?

dexter05 said:

Yooper, the corn sugar addition is to help me with drinkability?

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Yes, but you don't have to use it if you don't want to. Corn sugar boosts fermentables but doesn't provide any residual sweetness or body so it makes the beer more quaffable for a high ABV beer. IPAs should not be "thick" and sometimes they can be with 100% malt. I use it more often in IIPAs to lighten up the body, and not all that often in IPAs but with crystal malt in there it would keep it from being cloying.

Well, I'll give a try to the corn sugar, have used demerara before and liked the results.
So I removed some cara malts, it was pretty good for my english ipa, but really very much for an AIPA, and I going to save my SG for a future brown ale...


Pilsner 2 Row(1,8 SRM) Grain 79,4 %
Caramunich II (Weyermann) (60,9 SRM) Grain 5,6 %
Vienna Malt (Weyermann) (4,1 SRM) Grain 4,8 %
Carared (Weyermann) (22,8 SRM) Grain 3,2 %
Melanoidin (Weyermann) (30,0 SRM) Grain 3,2 %
Corn Sugar (Dextrose) (0,0 SRM) Sugar 4,0 %

.6 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14,00%] (70 min) Hops 30,5 IBU
.3 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14,00%] (15 min) Hops 8,2 IBU
.5 oz Cascade [5,50%] (20 min) Hops 5,9 IBU
.5 oz Cascade [5,50%] (15 min) Hops 4,8 IBU
.5 oz Cascade [5,50%] (10 min) Hops 3,5 IBU
.7 oz Cascade [5,50%] (5 min) Hops 2,6 IBU
.7 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14,00%] (1 min) Hops 1,4 IBU
.8 oz Cascade [5,50%] (0 min) Hops -

I think now it is more like a AIPA should be...! More suggestions?

What's your goal with the rather small percentages of all four specialty grains? If it's a color thing then I would simply use Caramunich II in a slightly larger amount. If it's a character thing, use Vienna in a slightly larger amount. Or you can do both. But I don't see the miniscule amounts of Carared and Melanoidin doing anything for you here.

Be advised, you don't add corn sugar to an existing recipe to boost dryness... instead you REPLACE a percentage of original base malt with 5% corn sugar to boost dryness.

I'm not understanding the 1 min. vs. 0 min. additions. Just call it flameout and add them when the heat is off.

I would personally like to see larger late additions in a simple 90/15/0/DH schedule. You NEED to boil Pils malt for 90 min. to drive off DMS.

Definitely pack some more IBUs in there. Right now you're not at a 1:1 BU:GU ratio... more like 0.80 with a slight nod toward malty. And I'm seeing this more as finishing around 1.019 FG and 9 SRM.

Finally, try incorporating some kind of dryhop regimen here at the rate of 0.45 to 0.65 oz. dryhops per gallon beer.

bobbrews said:

What's your goal with the rather small percentages of all four specialty grains? If it's a color thing then I would simply use Caramunich II in a slightly larger amount. If it's a character thing, use Vienna in a slightly larger amount. Or you can do both. But I don't see the miniscule amounts of Carared and Melanoidin doing anything for you here.

Be advised, you don't add corn sugar to an existing recipe to boost dryness... instead you REPLACE a percentage of original base malt with 5% corn sugar to boost dryness.

I'm not understanding the 1 min. vs. 0 min. additions. Just call it flameout and add them when the heat is off.

I would personally like to see larger late additions in a simple 90/15/0/DH schedule. You NEED to boil Pils malt for 90 min. to drive off DMS.

Definitely pack some more IBUs in there. Right now you're not at a 1:1 BU:GU ratio... more like 0.80 with a slight nod toward malty. And I'm seeing this more as finishing around 1.019 FG and 9 SRM.

Finally, try incorporating some kind of dryhop regimen here at the rate of 0.45 to 0.65 oz. dryhops per gallon beer.

Click to expand...

Thanks man... the four special are really for a character thing, and I see your point. I believe that vienna and maybe melanoidin could do something for me. Now, the hops addition are like this to try to give more intensity for flavor and aroma. Yes, I know DH is missing here, and everybody does it, because it works. I am thinking on starting doing it, but honestly, I am new at DH, late hops always worked for me, and I don't feel confortable to do it in this beer.

Besides FWH, and avoiding the trub from the boiling, what are the tricks to let bitterness more pleasant?

I enjoy implementing flameout and dryhop. I feel that late additions in general do fantastic things for the IPA style. There is absolutely no reason to fear dryhopping. I find pellets easier to work with in this regard. All you have to do is toss in a predetermined amount of hop pellets any time after primary fermentation (I usually go with 0.50 to 0.65 oz. pellets per gallon beer). Afterward, quickly seal the carboy and wait approx. 5-10 days. They will eventually sink to the bottom so siphoning clear wort free of trub is very easy, especially if you wrap the end of your racking cane with a nylon mesh bag and avoid agitating the carboy at all costs.

To make bitterness more pleasant, use more late hops than early hops and/or lessen the amount of your early hops. You can also choose hops low in cohumulone for a smoother bitterness. Malt selection can also help to balance the bitterness. This is essentially what American Red Ales do... even Imperial Reds. They are still quite hoppy, but manage to tame the bitterness more so than an intense IPA. For me personally, I don't think that someone who dislikes that in-your-face bitterness should be focusing on brewing IPA's. IPA's are not supposed to be balanced in terms of bitter vs. sweet. They are hop monsters. You can always make a pleasant Pale ale, Red ale, or hoppy Brown ale if your goal is balance. These styles will give you more of a malt balance to the bitterness.

bobbrews said:

I enjoy implementing flameout and dryhop. I feel that late additions in general do fantastic things for the IPA style. There is absolutely no reason to fear dryhopping. I find pellets easier to work with in this regard. All you have to do is toss in a predetermined amount of hop pellets any time after primary fermentation (I usually go with 0.50 to 0.65 oz. pellets per gallon beer). Afterward, quickly seal the carboy and wait approx. 5-10 days. They will eventually sink to the bottom so siphoning clear wort free of trub is very easy, especially if you wrap the end of your racking cane with a nylon mesh bag and avoid agitating the carboy at all costs.

To make bitterness more pleasant, use more late hops than early hops and/or lessen the amount of your early hops. You can also choose hops low in cohumulone for a smoother bitterness. Malt selection can also help to balance the bitterness. This is essentially what American Red Ales do... even Imperial Reds. They are still quite hoppy, but manage to tame the bitterness more so than an intense IPA. For me personally, I don't think that someone who dislikes that in-your-face bitterness should be focusing on brewing IPA's. IPA's are not supposed to be balanced in terms of bitter vs. sweet. They are hop monsters. You can always make a pleasant Pale ale, Red ale, or hoppy Brown ale if your goal is balance. These styles will give you more of a malt balance to the bitterness.

Click to expand...

Interesting, Columbus is kind of high in cohumulone, in comparison to nugget for example. I got some freshy nugget pellets... I gonna try a new approach for the hops additions, what do you think?

.7 oz Nugget [13,00%] (30 min) Hops 23,4 IBU
.5 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [12,00%] (20 min) Hops 12,8 IBU
.5 oz Cascade [5,50%] (20 min) Hops 5,9 IBU
.7 oz Cascade [5,50%] (15 min) Hops 8,0 IBU
.35 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [12,00%] (15 min) Hops 7,0 IBU
.35 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [12,00%] (10 min) Hops 5,1 IBU
.6 oz Cascade [5,50%] (10 min) Hops 4,2 IBU
.5 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [12,00%] (5 min) Hops 4,2 IBU
.5 oz Cascade [5,50%] (5 min) Hops 1,9 IBU
1 oz Cascade [5,50%] (0 min) Hops -
.35 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [12,00%] (0 min) Hops -

Total IBUS: 70,9

Can I see the recipe as a whole? Maybe a hopville link?

Any reason why you're not adding hops at 60 min for an IPA? Honestly I bitter with a relatively small amount of Columbus all the time (plus an abundance of other varietals late in the boil and dryhop)... I never get harsh, off-putting bitterness despite hovering around 80-130 theoretical IBUs. Maybe you're just not accustomed to bitter as much as you are sweet.