Little Sumpin' Sumpin' Ale?

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TheDutchman

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The day I got married, following our wedding reception, we visited the Hopcat in Grand Rapids, MI. As we were still in wedding apparel, our waitress wanted to help us celebrate and treated me to this beer. :mug: Naturally, I'd like to make something close for at home since Lagunitas isn't selling the stuff anymore.
So....knowing only that it is "wheatyesque," OG 1.076, ABV 7.3%, IBU 64.20, color pale/golden, moderately caramelly, and filled with American-style hops (many mention grapefruit in the flavor), I'm gonna give it a shot:

82% Efficiency
72.4% AA
5.25 Gallons

6.5 lbs 2-Row
6 lbs White Wheat
1 lb Crystal 40L
Mash 154F for 60 Min

1 oz Simcoe (13%) 60 min
1 oz Cascade (6%) 5 min
1 oz Amarillo (8%) 5 min

Ferment at 65F (finishing at 70F) with 2 packets S-04

Any suggestions to help me get closer?
 
Looks good, but considering adding more late hops to it. I have not had that beer, but I assume that if its filled with American style hops, it has quite the hop flavor and aroma. The cascade and amarillo are great for the citrus/grapefruit note and consider adding some at flameout and then dryhopping too.
 
This beer is fantastic. I agree with chode on more late hop additions. The aroma on this beer was awesome. Adding some simcoe to the end of the boil would definitely be appropriate IMO. Keep us updated on this one as I'd love to brew it up myself.
 
This beer is fantastic. I agree with chode on more late hop additions. The aroma on this beer was awesome. Adding some simcoe to the end of the boil would definitely be appropriate IMO. Keep us updated on this one as I'd love to brew it up myself.

I would add an ounce of cascade and an ounce of the amarillo to a dry hop for 7 days. Really load up on those grapefruit/citrus hops!
 
Cluster is the hop that tastes the most like grapefruit. Simcoe tastes like pine.

Forrest
 
i thought i tasted a little floral and earthiness under the citrus flavor but that was quite a while ago.

i think you'll need something besides just citrusy hops.

this is what some other lagunitas hop schedules look like (according to the can you brew it recipes).

Brown shugga

44g Willamette 4.1% @ 90min
10g Nuggets 12.7% @ 45min
31g Willamette 4.1% @ 45min
3.5g Nuggets 12.7% @ 1min
11g Liberty 4.5% @ 1min
22.5g Centennial 8% @ 1min

21g Cascade 6.5% @ Dry Hop
21g Centennial 8% @ Dry Hop
21g Liberty 4.5% @ Dry Hop

Censored Ale

27g Willamette 4.6% @ 60min
4.6g Horizon 12% @ 60min
16g Willamette 4.6% @ 30min
2.3g Centennial 9% @ 30min
4.6g Cascade 5.75% @ 30min
9g Centennial 9% @ 1 min
9g Liberty 4% @ 1 min

Lagunitas IPA

4g Summit 18.5% @ 60min
10g Horizon 12% @ 60min
23g Willamette 4.75% @ 30min
11.4g Centennial 10% @ 30min
34g Cascade 5.75% @ 1min
21g Cascade 5.75% @ Dry Hop
21g Centennial 9% @ Dry Hop
 
I would consider moving .5 oz of the cascade and .5 oz the amarillo to first wort.

FWH .5 oz cascade, .5 oz amarillo, .5 oz simcoe

20 minutes .5 oz cascade
15 minutes .5 oz amarillo
10 minues .5 oz simcoe


this will get you good hop flavor and aroma, but I think you should also dry hop with at least Amarillo and Cascade....but all three would be oh so nice.

I didn't plug these numbers into beersmith or anything, so I don't know the IBU's but I would assume 60 ish.
 
I remember listening to the Jamil show and he discussed a few Lagunitas recipes with the head brewer. I think they mash all their beers around 160F. I know it sounds a little extreme, but if you drink any of their other beers, they all have a similar sweetness to them.
 
Thanks for all the response everyone!
I just brewed the Lagunitas IPA clone a couple weeks ago, and mashed at 158F. I hesitate to mash so high on this beer because it's so much bigger. If this one under attenuates....gross (the TARGET FG is 1.021). Also, I know that Whitbread is the yeast recommended for the IPA clone, so I'm guessing there is a high probability this is their "house" yeast (or something similar). I don't think this beer will ferment low enough if I use this yeast and mash at 160F. If anyone has experience that says otherwise, I'd be happy to listen.
The comment on earthy or floral hops makes sense to me. It's been awhile since I've tasted this, but I remember thinking "this is not a one-trick pony of a beer." I remember is being more complex (and not overwhelmingly hoppy) than my standard IPAs. If I were to add something else to complicate the hop harmony, what would you recommend (and when/what ammount)? Options: Fuggle, Saphir, Glacier, Nugget, Newport.
 
This beer is back again, still tasting great. Drinking one right now and I think there is some Columbus in this beer, in addition to the Cascade, Amarillo, and Simcoe. Columbus gives a dank characteristic which I pick up in this beer, especially in the aroma. I would not be surprised if they also used a more earthy hop, maybe willamette which they use in their pale ale. My $.02.
 
None of those hops, Columbus, Cascade, Amarillo, or Simcoe are in that beer... until the dry hopping. We should have a clone show on this in the not too distant future.
 
None of those hops, Columbus, Cascade, Amarillo, or Simcoe are in that beer... until the dry hopping. We should have a clone show on this in the not too distant future.

That's awesome, Jamil! It's a damn fine beer!
 
None of those hops, Columbus, Cascade, Amarillo, or Simcoe are in that beer... until the dry hopping. We should have a clone show on this in the not too distant future.

Hopefully sooner rather than later! This is one of those beers that we all love, but never have seen a decant clone recipe for. Since none of those hops are in it, that rules out just about all the hops in my freezer!
 
Wow I'm surprised to hear that, but I dare not question the pope! Can't wait for this episode. I love CYBI as well as Brew Strong. Keep up the great work Jamil.
 
speakin of little sumpin' ale...how about the little sumpin' wild ale.
that is an awesome beer too.
 
Cluster is the hop that tastes the most like grapefruit. Simcoe tastes like pine.

Forrest

I get a huge grapefruit smell and hop taste from this beer with just a bit of spice, earth and pine. It too is one of my favorites and everyone I know has liked it. Here are some clues I've gathered on this beer so far:

64.20 IBU
OG 1.076
7.5% ABV
Sneaky Smooth with a Touch of What we Call Wheatly-esque-ish-ness. Crispy Wheat and Pale Malt flavors with a Zippy Hop Finish
50% wheat, three types of wheat
all the hops starting w/ the letter C, and maybe an S...
 
Okay the suspense is killing me. Has anyone heard about when this show is going to air? I love this beer and so do my friends--we're dying to take a shot at it.
 
We did the show live on December 7th, but if you didn't listen live, you will need to wait a few weeks until the show is posted as a podcast.
 
Thanks, I usually look for the podcast since, while I love you guys, I can't plan all of my life around brewing.
 
Just a note, the episode of The Jamil Show on The Brewing Network is on the site with this clone recipe.

I'll transcribe here as I wrote it down, but please correct me if I missed something.

Recipe Type: All Grain
Yeast: White Labs WLP 002 English Ale
Yeast Starter: Yes
Additional Yeast or Yeast Starter: None
Batch Size (Gallons): 6
Original Gravity: 17.15 plato
Final Gravity: (didn't get the FG, sorry :( )
IBU: 60
Boiling Time (Minutes): 90
Primary Fermentation (# of Hours & Temp): 36 hours @ 65, 36 hours @ 68, allow to finish @ 70
Secondary Fermentation: Dry hop 7-14 days
Tasting Notes: None

3.68 kg Domestic 2-row (50%) (Lagunitas uses Rahr 2-row Pale)
2.77 kg Malted Wheat (37.60%)
90 g Toasted Wheat (1.20%)
830 g Torrified (Puffed) Wheat (11.20%) (Lagunitas uses Crisp Torrified Wheat)
1lb Rice Hulls added to improve flow
(Gypsum added to boil using soft water)

Single infusion 45 min @ 150 degrees

Hop Additions
@90 min
11 g Nugget 9% AA
2 g Horizon 12%
2 g Summit 17.5%

@45 min
8 g Wilamette 5.2%

@15 min
27 g Santiam 5.6%
9 g Wilamette 5.2%

Dry Hop Additions
Cascade 24 g
Centennial 24 g
Simcoe 24 g
Chinook 24 g
Columbus 15 g
Amarillo 18 g

I hope you'll excuse me if I omitted something. I'm getting my ingredients together to batch this soon, so I haven't tasted it yet, but hopefully I pulled the right info down. Again, please feel free to correct me if I fudged something.
 
Not that it matters but, what catagory would this beer fall under?

According to the BJCP, I think it would fall between the American IPA and Imperial IPA. The OG and ABV fall on that border between the two really. If you look at it from Lagunitas, OG is 1.076 (Imperial) but the ABV is 7.3% (American). The IBU is in both areas.

So really, depending on what you stats are, it could push it to either category.
 
I would suggest listening to the show before attempting this, there is quite a few quirks I didn't expect when first tasting it. I didn't know from trying it that you had to use toasted wheat. Diverse hop schedule too.
 
I brewed it yesterday. Toasting the wheat was easy. My OG was a little low (~62) but the sample tasted right. We'll see in few weeks.
 
So, I just bought all the ingredients for this, and I am planning to brew it tomorrow.But I am confused by the IBUs. Beersmith is telling me the IBUs come to around 30, but the recipe is supposed to be for 60 IBUs, with the actual beer listed at 64.

Maybe there is a problem with converting the everything from grams to ounces? Can anyone help me figure this out?
 
So, I just bought all the ingredients for this, and I am planning to brew it tomorrow.But I am confused by the IBUs. Beersmith is telling me the IBUs come to around 30, but the recipe is supposed to be for 60 IBUs, with the actual beer listed at 64.

Maybe there is a problem with converting the everything from grams to ounces? Can anyone help me figure this out?

I believe the guys from CYBI use the rager formula for bitterness. You might have a different option set in Beersmith. Go into your options in Beersmith under bitterness and see what you have. You can switch this back and forth as needed. I ran into this issue with a couple of their recipes as I use the Tinseth formula.
 
Thanks! I switched beermsith to the rager formula which brought up the IBUs a little, but still less than what Lagunitas lists for this beer. I went ahead and brewed it yesterday anway...it was my first all grain, and my OG was only 1.058 compared to the 1.071 i was shooting for, but hopefully it will still turn out decent...
 
The IBU's will be close, who knows at a homebrew level just how close. I'm sure the real batches of Little Sumpin' Sumpin' vary in bitterness between batches. Let us know how it turns out.
 
I was at a beer event hosted by Lagunitas this week and they mentioned it was brewed/dry hopped solely with Saaz and Chinook hops.... it was the first time having this beer and it was delicious
 
That's interesting because I swear there was a citrusy/grapefruit aroma to this brew. Man I would love to find a good clone of this recipe....
 
I was at a beer event hosted by Lagunitas this week and they mentioned it was brewed/dry hopped solely with Saaz and Chinook hops.... it was the first time having this beer and it was delicious


This is contrary to what Don told me a couple weeks ago at a beer fest. Said it was nothing but C hops.
 
This is contrary to what Don told me a couple weeks ago at a beer fest. Said it was nothing but C hops.

Now that sounds about right. Give Don a shout and ask him for the malt bill, then the yeast, and any other brew instructions he feels like sharing! :D
 
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