Never Use Pbw Again!!

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The Pol

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There are many threads on this, but I have to say... PBW is a waste of my money. It works well, no doubt, but at what cost? $4 per pound? And at a mixing ratio of 1-1.5oz per gallon?

I took some advice and switched to OxyClean... no not the name brand either, SUN OxyClean for $1 per pound. The mixing ratio I used was .33 oz/gallon. Mixed with some hot water, and within 45 minutes it had eaten everything out of my primary. AMAZING.

So lets see:

4 pounds of PBW at a cost of $16 will yield 64 gallons of cleaner
4 pouinds of Oxy at a cost of $4 will yield 194 gallons of cleaner

So a gallon of PBW costs me about $.25
So a gallon of Oxy costs me about $.02

Nice... well, I will never buy PBW again.
 
Try cutting what you used in half even. I bet it will still work well. I use maybe .5-.75oz in 5 gallons to soak my carboys and it works great.
 
I buy PBW at $2.28 a pound and it has chelators in it that Oxiclean does not, which softens the water making rinsing easier. This is why pro brewers use it for CIP cleaning.

I do use Oxiclean on reconditioning old kegs by soaking them with it for a few days before a rinse and clean with PBW, but every subsequent clean is with PBW.

I don't skimp on cleaning, cause if you do, it all can go south from there.
 
You can also use PBW on soft metals (copper, aluminum) where Oxiclean is not nice to them.

There are also messes that I have made that Oxiclean is not as effective on. Really bad burnt on sugar will come clean with PBW, Oxiclean is not very effective. I use this for brewing stuff and for cleaning up those casserole dishes that have burnt on crud.
 
I have really soft water (water softener) and I NEED this stuff for krausen, since I CANNOT scrub or brush my fermentor, that is what it is needed for.

I have no burning of wort, because I am all electric, no flame, no burns.

I am really glad that I gave this a shot before buying 8 pounds of PBW at $36, which is the cheapest I have been able to find it anywhere, my LHBS is about $41
 
I recently checked out a new home brew store, so I bought a couple of small packets of PBW. I have never used it before, but since I just built a system that will be CIP, I thought I should try it. Also, there is something wrong about not buying anything in a LHBS. ANYWAY, I have not looked forward to the high cost of PBW. I have been following the other thread closely. Now it looks like I'll be using the WallyWorld brand of Oxiclean after each brew and a PBW about every 4th one. - Dwain
 
I buy PBW at $2.28 a pound and it has chelators in it that Oxiclean does not, which softens the water making rinsing easier. This is why pro brewers use it for CIP cleaning.

I do use Oxiclean on reconditioning old kegs by soaking them with it for a few days before a rinse and clean with PBW, but every subsequent clean is with PBW.

I don't skimp on cleaning, cause if you do, it all can go south from there.

THIS. My well water is so hard that the value of the chelators in PBW is immediately apparent. For instance, if I attempt to soak labels off in Oxi-Clean, the bottles will acquire a white film that must then be removed with an acid wash, such as white vinegar and RO water, thus necessitating an extra step. I use PBW, and am glad it's available. I don't know what quantities of PBW other homebrewers employ, but I've been brewing for around a year and a half, and I've brewed almost 30 batches. in that time, I've used the small jar of One Step that came with my kit, and perhaps 2 pounds of PBW.....and some of that PBW was for non-brewing related cleaning. I don't think that's excessive, and as the previous post pointed out, if cleaning / sanitizing slips, the whole brewing operation is imperiled.

Like Star San, I regard PBW as money well spent.
 
I am a big fan of OxyClean and get a great deal on it at Costco, but I only use it as a "pre-soak" solution . . .

Heavily caked primary carb's and a keggle that "may" have been forgotten after brew day! But I always wash/rinse with PBW afterwards, although at a lighter concentration
 
I personally do not think that NOT using PBW qualifies in the least as "skimping". Per whom? The same dudes that swear you HAVE to add water to grain when you mash in? Dunno.

But I DIDNT use PBW until December of '08, so was I "skimping" for the previous three years? If so, hate to tell ya... I had no sanitation issues, no infections, no off flavors.

All I know is that if it is clean, it is clean. My SS kettle is shinier than ever and my fermentor did NOT come clean this quickly when I used PBW.

I use A LOT of PBW because I soak my kettle in it, pump it through my brew rig and soak primaries with it. I used 8 pounds in about 6 months, which is expensive as heck for the "cleaning power" that I have seen from that 8 pounds. Per the PBW instructions I needed about 8-9 OUNCES just to soak my BK! With the Oxy I used 2oz.

If you have hard water, I get it... that sucks, but I have a softener (because I have hard water) so therfore my water is not an issue.

Star San was brought up somewhere in this thread... I use Star San, I have had the same bottle for 2 years because I mix it and place it in a spray bottle and spray much of my equipment with it, instead of soaking in big buckets of it.

I am not trying to "skimp" here, which I think is a really poor choice of words, but if it strips the krausen off in 45 minutes and costs 1/12 as much as PBW... it most certainly has its place in MY brewery. Go buy your $4/lb cleaner and $4/ounce hops if it makes you happy :D

For many others who already use Oxy, I am not saying anything new, just wanted to put up some numbers for comparison.
 
Glad you finally found your way POL. $4 per pound is outrageous for cleaner. Hell, I can usually find decent sirloin for less than that! I have always used either "automatic dishwasher powder", Cascade or any other brand, or generic oxi-clean from family dollar at a buck a pound.

Talk about mark-up on a specialty product...hah!
 
Glad you finally found your way POL. $4 per pound is outrageous for cleaner. Hell, I can usually find decent sirloin for less than that! I have always used either "automatic dishwasher powder", Cascade or any other brand, or generic oxi-clean from family dollar at a buck a pound.

Talk about mark-up on a specialty product...hah!

You know, you are skimping :D

Seriously though, I wish I had found this stuff sooner, I blew way too much dough on PBW.... ugh. Star San is pricelss, because nothing matches its performance and ease of use, IMHO the story is different with PBW.
 
Pol,

Glad you found the Oxy....I've been using it for years, buying the generic stuff for $1/lb from the Dollar store. It works great!

drost
 
I have a stainless coffee decanter that goes with my coffee maker. After several batches of coffee, the insides get a bit dark. A soak in hot PBW for a couple hours eats away the stain and rinses clean.
 
I've always used "Sun" cleaner. It's Oxyclean without the bleach crystals and it works great in my plastic BB fermenters and buckets. No scrubbing ever, just a soak for a couple of hours and it's good to go.
 
I've always used "Sun" cleaner. It's Oxyclean without the bleach crystals and it works great in my plastic BB fermenters and buckets. No scrubbing ever, just a soak for a couple of hours and it's good to go.

Yah, I am using SUN too. I didnt NEED a good cleaner until I got this HDPE fermentor, but I cant brush the heck out of it like I did with glass.
 
I have a stainless coffee decanter that goes with my coffee maker. After several batches of coffee, the insides get a bit dark. A soak in hot PBW for a couple hours eats away the stain and rinses clean.

I have a cheap glass Procter Silex coffee pot that gets rather filthy looking doing its morning duties, after a soak in the generic oxi it looks like new.

I'm sure PBW is great stuff, but come on, $4/lb!
 
The Pol, I'm glad my thread helped you. I bought the oxyclean knock off to clean my cornys, but after hearing the different ideas tossed around on here. I just thought I would try using it to clean my carboy. I thought it worked fantastic, eating krausen like nobodys business. Soaking instead of scrubbing always sounds better to me. :)
 
The Pol, I'm glad my thread helped you. I bought the oxyclean knock off to clean my cornys, but after hearing the different ideas tossed around on here. I just thought I would try using it to clean my carboy. I thought it worked fantastic, eating krausen like nobodys business. Soaking instead of scrubbing always sounds better to me. :)

Yeah, my fermentor was clean in about an hour... I dumped it, rinsed it with some hig pressure from my sprayer a couple times and put a couple gallons of Star San sealed up in it until my next brew day.

This will keep the fermentor ready and leave me with an ample supply of sanitizer for the future. I really love the SUN Oxy Clean at $1/pound and the mixing ratio is A LOT less than PBW recommends on thier packaging.

FWIW... when I cleaned my fermentor with 1.5 oz/gallon of PBW, the fermentor still REEKED of my previous brew. Now I noticed today that my fermentor that was cleaned with .33 oz/gallon of OXY has no hint of the smells of fermentation whatsoever. It smells new!

I mean I used 1/3 oz per gallon and it ate the krausen off like mad. PBW recommends like 1-2oz per gallon? That seems like A LOT when you are trying to fill a BK to soak.
 
PBW and Oxyclean are both great cleaners in there places. I'd keep both on hand and use them for different applications. Oxyclean is good for stripping labels off bottles, pre-cleaning, etc. PBW, for final wash and rinse on ALL surfaces, and I finish with star-san. A truly excellent sanitizer. It's a bit pricey, but for over all effect it's priceless. Also, if you're careful, you can cover it up and keep it for a few brew sessions, streching your dollar. My over all point is that cleaners are all good for THIER applications, and it's wise to be diverse and keep several kinds on hand in your collective breweries, and use them for what they are specifically made for and safe to clean. In the world of brewing, I agree with EDwort and don't skimp. It can cost more money dumping batches than using the proper cleaners and methods.
 
I gotta agree with you with a couple caveats. I have soft water too and oxy is awesome. However, pbw can be used at much lower concentrations than what is specified on the label and still be effective. Same with oxy. Also, in my experience pbw is easier to rinse off and does in some cases get nasty stuff that oxy doesn't. I haven't experienced the reverse of oxy being MORE powerful, but YMMV.

I love oxy and am not planning on buying any more pbw any time soon. I use OxyFree and buy it at target in 3.5lb tubs. It is still expensive like this at about $2/lb. Do you have a better source? Its the only place I can find it without fragrance.
 
I gotta agree with you with a couple caveats. I have soft water too and oxy is awesome. However, pbw can be used at much lower concentrations than what is specified on the label and still be effective. Same with oxy. Also, in my experience pbw is easier to rinse off and does in some cases get nasty stuff that oxy doesn't. I haven't experienced the reverse of oxy being MORE powerful, but YMMV.

I love oxy and am not planning on buying any more pbw any time soon. I use OxyFree and buy it at target in 3.5lb tubs. It is still expensive like this at about $2/lb. Do you have a better source? Its the only place I can find it without fragrance.


I can go to Walmart or Deals (dollar store) and get SUN brand Oxy for $1 per pound.

Also, yes, in my case the Oxy cleaned this krausen ring much easier than my previous brew where I used PBW at the suggested concentration.
 
Before PBW I cleaned only with hot water from the tap... for THREE YEARS. Now, some of you claim that is skimping, but I have never had an infected batch. I have always sanitized with Star San, but that bottle is going on year #3. For CLEANING I used hot water and a brush or sponge.

Again, to each thier own... but since I only used hot water for 3 years to clean brewing items and never had an infection, I think it is silly to claim that NOT using PBW and using Oxy instead is skimping. That is as if to say that anyone not using PBW is skimping and putting thier brews at risk, which I would humbly have to disagree with. People had alternatives before PBW and they stil do after its introduction.
 
My dollar store, Deal$, will actually sell me a 15 pound CASE of SUN Oxy Clean for $12... that is $.80 per pound!

Or I can get 8 pounds of PBW for $36! (plus shipping)
 
My dollar store, Deal$, will actually sell me a 15 pound CASE of SUN Oxy Clean for $12... that is $.80 per pound!

Or I can get 8 pounds of PBW for $36! (plus shipping)

Hey Pol, is that stuff fragrance/dye free or does it have the blue bits in it? I gotta go to my local dollar store! (dollar tree here)

I had a much harder time rinsing off the fragrance filled stuff, so I switched to Oxyclean "FREE".
 
Hey Pol, is that stuff fragrance/dye free or does it have the blue bits in it? I gotta go to my local dollar store! (dollar tree here)

I had a much harder time rinsing off the fragrance filled stuff, so I switched to Oxyclean "FREE".

This is dye and fragrance free... I would not buy the scented stuff either! It worked amazing, and when I can get 15 POUNDS for $12... holy crappola!

At my current mixing ratio, that is 720 GALLONS of cleaner for $12... nice.
 
Hah. I love it...Pol you're out of control...now you're so smitten w/ your new found love for Oxi...you're doing a solo bulk purchase...I have the same issues...:mug:
 
Hah. I love it...Pol you're out of control...now you're so smitten w/ your new found love for Oxi...you're doing a solo bulk purchase...I have the same issues...:mug:

IT IS JUST SO AWESOME! I mean $.80 a pound for this is like getting my hops for $.95 an ounce shipped!! I AM IN LOVE!
 
You can also use PBW on soft metals (copper, aluminum) where Oxiclean is not nice to them.

There are also messes that I have made that Oxiclean is not as effective on. Really bad burnt on sugar will come clean with PBW, Oxiclean is not very effective. I use this for brewing stuff and for cleaning up those casserole dishes that have burnt on crud.

What's the effect of Oxyclean type cleaners on copper? I currently have a counterflow chilller with copper that needs a strong cleaning after sitting for 7 years and will have to look locally for something to clean it with. Thoughts?
 
What's the effect of Oxyclean type cleaners on copper? I currently have a counterflow chilller with copper that needs a strong cleaning after sitting for 7 years and will have to look locally for something to clean it with. Thoughts?

Yeah what DOES it do to copper?

I ask because I let some copper tubing I have sit in it and didnt see anything happening... ? It was in it for about 45 minutes at about 150+ degrees, then rinsed. It appears exactly the same as it always has... I want to see some photos of what oxyclean supposedly does to copper.
 
IT IS JUST SO AWESOME! I mean $.80 a pound for this is like getting my hops for $.95 an ounce shipped!! I AM IN LOVE!

New avatar? :D

thepol.jpg
 
FWIW I have found PBW for $2.60 a pound from MOREFLAVOR.com... which means that it probably isnt in stock. BUT, you have to buy it in a 50 pound bucket AND pay for shipping. IT is only $43 to ship...

So I can get 50 pounds for $3.46/pound which is the BEST price I have found anywhere online.
 
Just to add to the thread, I had SWMBO pick up some from the dollar store. In short, I was not impressed at all. I'm sticking with the OC Free. or trusted off brand
 
I've been using SUN for the last few months. I can see no difference between that and OC except the price.

I read some reviews online before I bought mine, and everyone said that SUN was no different in cleaning power than OC FREE... so, that is where I am at.
 
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