am I partial mashing?? or extracting??

All of my batches so far were pre-assembled kits and have contained specialty grains that I steep prior to bringing the wort to a boil, then follow by adding the malt (dried/liquid) extract, and then hops.

is this partial mashing??? I did a search but ended up confusing myself some more, any help with this noob would be appreciated ha ha

extract with steeping grains.

PM involves mashing some grains to make your wort... Steeping grains is not the same as mashing.

Mashing and steeping are very similar, with the important difference being that using steeping grains doesn't provide any fermentable sugars for your yeasties to use to make alcohol. Steeping specialty grains the way your kit has you do it only provides color/flavor.

I am 99% sure that is correct, as I am new to this stuff too.

Steeping grains is for color, flavor, and a small amount of sugar. you add extract malt sugars for the brew.

PM (or mini-mash, because you are mashing and you can't partially mash grains) is used for adding color, flavor, and a larger amount of sugar. usually done with Half the pounds of full AG.

AG is using just grains and extracting the sugars from the grain.


Partial (or mini) mash uses extract as its base malt instead of a larger grain bill for mashing. usually done on stove-top as a brew-in-a-bag (BIAB) method. excellent way to get your feet wet to going to AG.

hope this helps

Steeping can provide fermentable sugars, though most of the grains that people steep (crystals, roasts, etc.) don't contribute much that way. The big difference is that mashing uses water in a narrow temperature range to let a grain's natural enzymes convert starches to sugars. In steeping, you don't get this, or at least not much.

What you did was steeping specialty grains:

http://www.howtobrew.com/section2/chapter13.html

Here is a fairly technical description of what mashing is:

http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter14-1.html

You steep while you mash, but not the other way around. Mashing involves the extra process of keeping your grains at a certain temperature for long enough that the diastatic power within the malt enzymes convert grain starches to sugars. The extract that you use is basically the results of a mash, either completely dehydrated to create DME or reduced to a syrup for LME.

TTB-J said:

What you did was steeping specialty grains:

http://www.howtobrew.com/section2/chapter13.html

Here is a fairly technical description of what mashing is:

http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter14-1.html

You steep while you mash, but not the other way around. Mashing involves the extra process of keeping your grains at a certain temperature for long enough that the diastatic power within the malt enzymes convert grain starches to sugars. The extract that you use is basically the results of a mash, either completely dehydrated to create DME or reduced to a syrup for LME.

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So as I understand it from the links above... stepping is heating grain at held temperature and removing the grain while mashing is dissolving at a certain temperature which is absorbed into the wort(ex. grain run through a mill and dissolved)?

Steeping dissolves flavor and color off the grain. Mashing converts starch to sugar. If someone were to watch you do both operations and didn't know any better, it would look identical. From a chemical perspective, they are extremely different.

BW210 said:

So as I understand it from the links above... stepping is heating grain at held temperature and removing the grain while mashing is dissolving at a certain temperature which is absorbed into the wort(ex. grain run through a mill and dissolved)?

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No, in both cases you're taking some things out and leaving other things behind. With mashing, you are using enzymes to convert starches into sugars, which are dissolved into the wort. With steeping, you are dissolving various compounds that are already present in the grain when you buy it.

To simplify a bit: steeping is purely about dissolving, mashing is about chemical conversion.

When grains are malted they need to be dried to stop the sprouting process. With minimal heat these grains will contain the enzymes needed to convert the starches in the grain to sugars that can be fermented. These minimally heated grains will be called the base malts. As the temperature of the grains is raised the enzymes are gradually destroyed so that less of the starches can be converted. There are other processes that change the flavors of the grains too to make caramel malts and honey malts. These processes also destroy the enzymes so these grains contribute little sugars but more color and flavor.

If you steep grains like 2 row or pale malt at a specific range of temperatures you will convert the starches into sugars. You can combine these base malts with caramel, chocolate, roasted barley, black malt, etc in a partial mash where you get some grains to convert and the rest add color and flavor at the same time but only the base grains will provide (convert) the sugars.

okay so this leaves me asking more questions lol sorry

can I mash the specialty grains provided with my kits??

is there a difference between grains used for steeping and grains used for mashing???

maybe I already have the answer correct me if I am wrong please.

when mashing you use more of a 2 row, or pale malt as these have the most concentration of enzymes/starches to remove the most fermentable sugars.

where steeping you use grains that have been kilned longer resulting in less enzymes/starches/sugars but contribute more to flavor and color

is this correct???

....also how much more time is required to perform mashing?? is it based off the amount grains ???

steeping only requires 20-30 min.

Baronbrew said:

okay so this leaves me asking more questions lol sorry

can I mash the specialty grains provided with my kits??

is there a difference between grains used for steeping and grains used for mashing???

maybe I already have the answer correct me if I am wrong please.

when mashing you use more of a 2 row, or pale malt as these have the most concentration of enzymes/starches to remove the most fermentable sugars.

where steeping you use grains that have been kilned longer resulting in less enzymes/starches/sugars but contribute more to flavor and color

is this correct???

Click to expand...

Baronbrew said:

....also how much more time is required to perform mashing?? is it based off the amount grains ???

steeping only requires 20-30 min.

Click to expand...

Exactly.

If you look at a typical all grain recipe, you'll see something like this:

8-12 pounds of base malts (2-row, pilsner, malted wheat, maris otter, vienna, etc.)
.5-2 pounds of specialty malts (crystals/caramels, roasted malts, honey malt, etc.)

The base malts are light in color and produce the bulk of your fermentable sugars. The speciality malts tend to have a lot of color and a lot of flavor, but less fermentables.

When you have a extract + steeping grains recipe, you are replacing your base malts with extracts (which were themselves made from base malts by the extract manufacturer) and then steeping the specialty malts to pull out the color and flavor.

There is no difference between the specialty grains you are using for steeping and the specialty grains you would use in an all grain recipe. But, you can't mash specialty grains by themselves, generally. As you mention, they tend to have much less of either enzymes or unconverted starches.

A standard mash is 60 minutes long, though there are many variations on this.

if your only mashing for 60 mins (say plus or minus another 60 min)....why do most people say its an all day event? milling your grains, mashing your grains, and sparging/lautering takes up that much time??

so with a partial (mini-mash) you would convert (mash) "x" amount of milled base grains into wort for roughly an hour (or so depending) then sparge, steep your specialty grains for 20-30 min (or so depending), and then boil in the LME/DME for an hour along with hops (bittering/aroma)???

do any micro-breweries stick to extract or are most AG???

I read when mashing (bag in boil style) to squeeze the bag to remove as much of fermentables (another reason why you sparge)
in my extract kits the directions inform you to "not squeeze the grain bag" when steeping is there a specific reason for this???

does it make sense to sparge my specialty grains with my extract brews because I do (in a way).

I know the amount of h20 affects hop utilization during the boil... does the amount of water in the kettle affect steeping?? I tend to use 1/2 gallon less when steeping, then pouring that 1/2 gallon (at room temp not even hot or warm) over the grain bag to remove as much color flavor and sugar (I thought this was me mashing/sparging ha ha even though in a way it kind of is) but now i understand its strictly a color/flavor and not so much sugar enhancement is this a waste of time??? does it help??? and should the temp of the 1/2 gallon also be in the steeping temp. ?? I just figured i was rinsing the grain and removing as much of the converted sugars/colors/flavors??

thanks again in advance - Shawn

Baronbrew said:

if your only mashing for 60 mins (say plus or minus another 60 min)....why do most people say its an all day event? milling your grains, mashing your grains, and sparging/lautering takes up that much time??

so with a partial (mini-mash) you would convert (mash) "x" amount of milled base grains into wort for roughly an hour (or so depending) then sparge, steep your specialty grains for 20-30 min (or so depending), and then boil in the LME/DME for an hour along with hops (bittering/aroma)???

do any micro-breweries stick to extract or are most AG???

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If I'm diligent and cut a few corners, I can do a brew day from water-on to all-cleaned in about 4.5 hours. Others take longer for various reasons.

With a partial mash, you wouldn't typically do a mash and then a steep separately. Most people who are doing partial mashes are doing it because they don't have space in their mash tun for a full mash. The amount of time it takes is generally about the same as all grain. You drop out as much of your base malt as you need to and replace it with extract.

Most microbreweries are going to use grain exclusively, though some brew pubs do extract. As much as anything else, that's about cost. Extract is quite a bit more expensive than grain. It's perhaps not a huge issue at the homebrew scale, but it'd be hard to hit margins off of extract.

Baronbrew said:

I read when mashing (bag in boil style) to squeeze the bag to remove as much of fermentables (another reason why you sparge)
in my extract kits the directions inform you to "not squeeze the grain bag" when steeping is there a specific reason for this???

does it make sense to sparge my specialty grains with my extract brews because I do (in a way).

I know the amount of h20 affects hop utilization during the boil... does the amount of water in the kettle affect steeping?? I tend to use 1/2 gallon less when steeping, then pouring that 1/2 gallon (at room temp not even hot or warm) over the grain bag to remove as much color flavor and sugar (I thought this was me mashing/sparging ha ha even though in a way it kind of is) but now i understand its strictly a color/flavor and not so much sugar enhancement is this a waste of time??? does it help??? and should the temp of the 1/2 gallon also be in the steeping temp. ?? I just figured i was rinsing the grain and removing as much of the converted sugars/colors/flavors??

thanks again in advance - Shawn

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The "don't squeeze the bag" thing is debated, though many think it's a myth. The idea is that you'd extract tannins, but this doesn't really fit with (my understanding of) how the chemistry works.

When following somebody else's recipe, though, you generally want to follow their process. If they tell you not to squeeze the grain bag, squeezing the grain bag will get you a different beer than they are intending you to get. That's not necessarily bad, but it's not necessarily better either.

Your pour-over sparge is a fine method and plenty of people do it. I wouldn't worry too much about the temps, though keeping it at the same as the steep will work fine.

Malfet you have answered my questions down to a "T" thank you for your quick and knowledgeable responses!! much appreciated!!

and thanks to all you other members who have chimed in too!! I'm not forgetting you lol