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I think this would be a nice way to help perform this procedure (more) safely: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/pressure-gauge-mounted-bottle-cap-268151/
Easy Stove-Top Pasteurizing - With Pics
- Thread starter Pappers_
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Just started doing this for the first time on a batch of mikes caramel cider. My first few bottles were the bigger swing top bottles. (1 ltr maybe?) I used a plastic soda bottle so I knew my pressure. 2 out of the three bottles were fine but after the water bath, during cooling, 1 bottle blew up. Did I miss something?
ciderjunkie
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I have 12 gallons in 3 carboys that fermented in less than a week with champagne yeast. VERY dry. Getting ready to back sweeten and sit for a spell before adding the priming sugar and bottling in 750ml swing tops. Trying to get them ready for xmas so wanna make sure I don't rush anything or miss a step (virgin batch). Would appreciate an opinion:
1. How long should I wait between back sweetening and then bottling?
2. Assuming about 2 weeks for carbonation, correct?
3. Want to NOT have to keep them refrigerated long term but too many bottles and no feasible way to cold crash. Assuming will have to bottle pasteurize per your thread (many gracious thanks BTW) but not sure timing and such for the 750's.
1. How long should I wait between back sweetening and then bottling?
2. Assuming about 2 weeks for carbonation, correct?
3. Want to NOT have to keep them refrigerated long term but too many bottles and no feasible way to cold crash. Assuming will have to bottle pasteurize per your thread (many gracious thanks BTW) but not sure timing and such for the 750's.
CarnieBrew
Well-Known Member
I'm a little concerned at the timing...I made my first batch of cider recently, having had great success with a few home brewed beers. I decided to do a little 7 litre/2 gallon test batch to see how it would turn out. Using just apple juice from my local store, OG was 1044, i pitched a generic "fruit pulp/white wine" yeast recommended by my local wine making shop. After 9 days it was sitting spot on 1000, and four days later it was still 1000. So I added another 1.3 quarts of the original apple juice to this in order to back sweeten, and lower the abv, then bottled.
I was told about this trick of bottling into 1 plastic soft drink bottle, and the rest into glass, then waiting for the plastic bottle to go hard. Was told this "should" take around 6 days. BUT...I bottled two days ago, and the plastic bottle is already very hard, at least as hard as a bottle of coke would be from the shop. I'm obviously nervous about leaving it too long. What's the trick here, open one of my glass bottles and taste it to see if it's carbonated enough, and if so, pasteurize?
I was told about this trick of bottling into 1 plastic soft drink bottle, and the rest into glass, then waiting for the plastic bottle to go hard. Was told this "should" take around 6 days. BUT...I bottled two days ago, and the plastic bottle is already very hard, at least as hard as a bottle of coke would be from the shop. I'm obviously nervous about leaving it too long. What's the trick here, open one of my glass bottles and taste it to see if it's carbonated enough, and if so, pasteurize?
Junkie,
Unless you backsweeten with something unfermentable like splenda or lactose, the yeast will chew it up along with your priming sugar. I usually backsweeten with splenda to taste, then add my priming sugar, then bottle. *all at once*
OP
OP
That works if you are going to force carbonate it, or drink it still. But if you want to bottle carbonate (bottle condition it), if you stop the yeast with sulfite, it won't work.
OP
OP
If you are going to pastuerize, especially your first time, err on the side of undercarbonation. If you think it is overcarbonated, open the bottles and release some CO2 before going forward.
Check your bottles early and often is my advice. Once you know your system, how things work with your setup, then you can be a little looser. At least that was my experience.
Another option for bottle conditioning and carbonating cider is the method described on this website www.makinghardcider.com Its a good method.
I've got a batch of cider in the basement now, that will be ready to backsweeten and bottle in a few days. For my system, that usually means I pasteurize 2-4 days later.
But if you are pasteurizing it aren't you also killing the yeast? And wouldn't that also not help in the carbonation process?
OP
OP
You pasteurize and kill the yeast after the bottles are carbonated. If you were to add sulfite, you'd need to do it before or at the bottling, before carbonation.
MMBB
Well-Known Member
Well, I tried this method on 12ozers that I didn't want carbonated at all. I woke up this morning and found that one bottle had exploded. I checked a few other bottles and they all have yeast at the bottom. I guess my only choice is to crack them all open. Too dangerous putting them in hot water with an unknown carb level.
Take it from me (i just had a 3 liter bottle bomb on Friday ) crack the others open before you have more clean-up
anywhereout
Member
holy smokes! I would recommend opening a glass bottle immediately if your plastic bottle is solid. pasteurize ASAP if the carbonation is right. If its too high release the pressure on all the bottles and recap and try again is all you can really do I think. hope its not too late
Stauffbier
Well-Known Member
I was pasteurizing my cider yesterday, and I had one explode as well. I'm quite sure they weren't over carbed. I had them carbing for 6 days, and I was checking one every 2 days. I'd say I ended up at about 1.8-2 vol of CO2 (guessing). Only mildly carbonated I'd say. It was a New Belgium bottle that had likely been used many times before for beer. The explosion was so strong that it dented the thick, aluminum lid of my stock pot! I managed to get 20 out of 55 bottles pateurized, then I ditched the idea after the explosion. I put the rest of the bottles in my beer fridge to stop carbonation.
anywhereout
Member
would you mind giving us the details of your procedure? would be helpful in isolating the cause and contribute to the body of knowledge this thread is building. Thanks!
qrb912
Active Member
What temp do I need to get the cider to to kill off the yeast?
I will most likley be useing Nottingman Ale yeast.
Josh
I will most likley be useing Nottingman Ale yeast.
Josh
Great thread - sounds like this could be used for root beer or other sweet carbonated soft drinks too? Those are bottle bombs if you can't get them cold at just the right time.
You could put an uncapped bottle of water with a thermometer into the water bath at the same starting temperature of your 'product' to get a good idea of the temperature in the other bottles. Otherwise, it's a little tough to know just how hot your contents are getting to, but I don't doubt that a ten minute bath in 190F gets you there. Did some digging on Pasteurization temperatures & times:
http://www.iddeas.com/l2-1900.html
http://www.probrewer.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=11201
I see ranges of 6-50 Pasteurization Units, with 50 for non-alcoholic bevs. Formula for Pasteurization Unit (PU):
P.U.'s/minute = 1.2023 to the power of (T-140) where T = temperature in F
P.U.'s/minute = 1.389 to the power of (T-60) where T = temperature in C
Looks like 160-165F will give 50 P.U.'s with just 30-75 SECONDS exposure.
170F is 12 seconds,
180F just 2 seconds.
Of course, since we can't control the temperature variation bottle-to-bottle and even temperature gradients within a bottle, we do need to shoot for the high end on all these.
Dishwashers with sanitize settings get to 167F, I'd assume this happens slow and long enough to get the bottle contents over 160F for 75 seconds, but I don't know. Anyone got a waterproof temperature logger that can fit in a 12 ouncer?
-kenc
Apologies if this question has been asked in this thread, I tried searching but didn't really get anywhere...
I've got cider that's at the right carbonation in 22oz bottles and I like to try the stove top pasteurization. Here's the question: Has anyone had the experience of not being able to stop fermentation using a champagne yeast with this method?
thanks!
I've got cider that's at the right carbonation in 22oz bottles and I like to try the stove top pasteurization. Here's the question: Has anyone had the experience of not being able to stop fermentation using a champagne yeast with this method?
thanks!
REcidermaker
Member
is there a downside to pasteurizing with an open container?
I am looking to backsweeten but do not want it carbed
I am looking to backsweeten but do not want it carbed
Stauffbier
Well-Known Member
I made homemade cider with apples I grew in the back yard. I also used brown sugar. It was a meager OG of 1.047. I used S 04 to ferment in an ale pale. It got down to .998, which really surprised me. I then put it in secondary (5 gal better bottle) with almost zero headspace, added pectic enzyme to clear it up, and conditioned for 2 months. Then on bottling day I primed and back sweetened according to this recipe; https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f81/daves-carmel-apple-cider-244656/
After 2 days I checked carbonation. It had very little at all. 2 more days later I checked again, and it was slightly more carbonated. 2 days later I checked and it was carbonated about as much as a stout would be. At that point I started to pasteurize exactly as described in this sticky. Then.... BOOM!
I'm still thinking it might have been the bottle. Like I mentioned, it's probably been used to bottle beer many times. Maybe even as much as 10-15 times. It might have been stressed or cracked.
Im doing this method now, scared at 190 degrees as the water has started bubbling, Think I am safe at 175 (In a large pot, not much temp drop when adding 6-8 bottles) for 10 minutes?
Id rather do it right now, safetly than have bombs a day or two down the road, but I would also rather not hurt myself tonight.
I have 55 bottles to do
so 175-180, yay or nay?
Id rather do it right now, safetly than have bombs a day or two down the road, but I would also rather not hurt myself tonight.
I have 55 bottles to do
so 175-180, yay or nay?
Will do, Im heating the pot to 175, dropping 7 bottles in, and the pot temperature at the end of 10 minutes is roughly 145, then repeating...everything seems fine so far, the bottles I pulled out 20 minutes ago are still hot as heck, looks like they are going to have to sit on the counter for an hour or two
Per Pappers instructions he brings it up to 190 turns off the heat and places bottles in for 10 minutes then removes them and places them on counter for a bit and transfers them to a case to continue cooling .
I know, I was scared at 190 because my water was starting to boil (and yes I knowboiling point is 212). The bottles were rattling off the bottom of the pan and back down at 190...was scarrry
OP
OP
I know, I was scared at 190 because my water was starting to boil (and yes I knowboiling point is 212). The bottles were rattling off the bottom of the pan and back down at 190...was scarrry
Err on the side of caution. Take the water off the heat. Don't do anything that scares you.
I agree... always better safe than sorry
I've been wondering something! Could a plastic soda bottle be used to see if the pressure is right? When bottling, we could bottle a sample of the cider in a plastic soda bottle of the same size and volume as the beer bottle and cap it. When the soda bottle would be firm enough, then the pressure would be good in the beer bottle! To save the cider, the soda bottle could be cold crashed and drank since it wouldn't stand the heat of the pasteurization. This way, with experience, no bottle would have to be opened to check the pressure!
I don't know if that have ever been tried, but I'll sure try that once my new batch is ready for bottling!
I don't know if that have ever been tried, but I'll sure try that once my new batch is ready for bottling!
Safa
Well-Known Member
Atfer said:
Good thinking Atfer! It's very common. I think most cider makers use this method at least while they are learning their equipment. I definitely do
It appears that heating the pot to 175 has worked. I do not (and won't know for sure for a few days at least) but nothing has exploded and I opened a bottle tonight and it does not seem any more carbed than when I opened one right before pasturizing. I am hoping it worked because I have two full cases that taste pretty decent (still a little yeasty) but I know that will improve in about a month (prob crack some open at christmas time, then again at the end of Jan for vacation)
I will update again in a week and let you know if any have busted or carb has resumed, hopefully I will be able to tell everyone all is will
nvs-brew
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So I bottled my cider last night,
Opened 1 up about 19hrs later, when I opened it. It was very bubbly BUT on taste, little to no carbonation.
Was planning on leaving it till tomorrow, do you think this is a smart move?
Opened 1 up about 19hrs later, when I opened it. It was very bubbly BUT on taste, little to no carbonation.
Was planning on leaving it till tomorrow, do you think this is a smart move?
I know it has not been real long but I cracked one open this morning that has been sitting at room temp and it seems the same. It is very lightly carbed which I love. Looks like it worked !
Stauffbier
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure what you mean. Did you actually carbonate before you pasteurized? If not they will never carb up now. If you did then you can chill them and drink them right away. Maybe give them a few days in the fridge for the co2 to absorb back in to the liquid...
Just wondering what peoples thoughts are on the finished flavor of a cider that has been bottled conditioned and then pasteurized. Does it give it more of a cooked/caramelized apple flavor, or will it be cleaner than I think?
Yes once pasteurozied they are done.. you can store them or chill and drink...there is no more conditioning since you've basically killed the yeast
