help with hop additions for American IPA

finalizing my first recipe design, and thinking about the hop schedule. i'm aiming to brew an american ipa with big tropical hop flavor and aroma, smooth but assertive bitterness, and a complex malty backbone with a little sweetness. i want it to be crisp and balanced, but still a very hop forward ipa.

just got in 5oz Centennial 8.7AA, 5oz Citra 14.1AA, 5oz Amarillo 9.3AA – all pellet hops. I don't have to use all of this, but that's what i have in hand.

Recipe Stats: OG 1.060 / IBU 66.6 (tinseth) / 90m boil / 5.5gal into fermenter

here is what I originally concocted for the schedule to hit 66.6 IBU, and what i'd appreciate any knowledge on how to improve, or confirmation that this looks good as is:

.25oz Cent FWH | 8.0 IBU

.25oz Amarillo @ 15 | 3.6 IBU
.25oz Cent @ 15 | 3.4 IBU
.25oz Citra @ 15 | 5.4 IBU

.5oz Amarillo @ 10 | 5.2 IBU
.5oz Cent @ 10 | 4.9 IBU
.5oz Citra @ 10 | 8.0 IBU

1oz Amarillo @ 5 | 5.8 IBU
1oz Cent @ 5 | 5.4 IBU
1oz Citra @ 5 | 8.7 IBU

1oz Amarillo @ 2 | 2.4 IBU
1oz Cent @ 2 | 2.1 IBU
1oz Citra @ 2 | 3.7 IBU

1oz Amarillo dryhop 7 days
1oz Cent dryhop 7 days
1oz Citra dryhop 7 days


these hops were not cheap, and while i want to make the best beer possible, i also want to use the hops wisely. does the above plan seem like too much in the late hop additions? should i adjust each timed add so they are more even?

i would like it to remain around 65 IBU.

am considering playing around in beersmith when i get home to try and move some of the big late additions to get a little bit bigger FWH, adding in Citra and Amarillo to the FWH. thinking about doing a 25 or 30 min add to get some of that flavor.

thoughts?

and here's my grain bill:

mash 152 for 90m BIAB / mashout 168 for 10m

5.5 lbs US 2 row
3 lbs Marris Otter
1 lb carapils
.75 lb corn sugar (in boil)
.5 lb honey malt
.5 lb munich
6 oz caramel rye
6 oz victory
3 oz c60
3 oz chocolate malt
2 oz acid malt (for pH correction)



american ale II yeast / primary @ 63F / FG shooting for 1.011

Looks pretty good. Why are you doing a FWH? Why not just not do that and do a 60min addition? IMHO you should not use the Amarillo, Citra, or Centennial early on in boil as a lot of their desirable aroma's will be lost and it would be better suited later in the boil.

I would just use some sort of high AA like magnum or something like that for a 1st addition at 60min. IMHO, I would use Citra and Amarillo almost solely at the later additions. The reason for that is they are pretty potent hops and can impart a bit of that cat pee flavor the sooner in the boil they are used. Maybe use Centennial (.5 to 1oz) for flavor at 30min. and then the rest at 10min.

I personally woudl move that 2min addition to a flameout addition as well.

You could also just do what you have here as it looks pretty tasty to me. Good luck and happy brewing.

Btw, are those 3oz additions for color? I doubt that they will contribute much on the flavor end of things at that small of an amount. Also, with the hop bill you have they probably won't be that noticable.

yeah, the 3oz chocolate addition is purely for color. i was hoping to get a lil sumpin out of the c60, think i should bump it to 6oz?

thanks for the feedback on the hops. what i take from your comments is that i don't want to waste the amarillo or citra early in the boil because i won't get any flavor from it. even though, the citra is decently high AA at 14.1%, i will consider using magnum for a 60m bittering.

thing is, with all the late hops, i don't need that much in the 60m spot to get to 65 IBUs. with the FWH i was thinking i'd get something more than just doing a 20m addition. but i'm just trying to apply things i've read, and at this point not much is based on experience. i've just been following recipes up until now.

seems like the centennial could work as a 60m bittering, but it may be more economical to save it and use something cheaper for that?

I would use Citra and Amarillo almost solely at the later additions. The reason for that is they are pretty potent hops and can impart a bit of that cat pee flavor the sooner in the boil they are used.

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when you say this do you mean that you wouldn't add centennial in any of the later additions, or just that you wouldn't use citra and amarillo in any non-early additions? if the latter, where would you stop using citra and amarillo? i should be OK with them in the 15m additions i planned, right?

would you think something more like this, adjusted quantities to hit ~65 IBUs

magnum or cent 60m

cent 30m

cent/amarillo/citra 15m

cent/amarillo/citra 10m

amarillo/citra 5m

amarillo/citra 0m


the reason i had a 2m addition is because i read that a flameout add is essentially dry hopping, and i didn't want to waste hops by being redundant, so i thought i'd move it to 2m where i could get a lil more flavor and then leave the aroma to the dry hopping?

appreciate the thoughts!

You could bump up the crystal to 6 but are you going for a more malty IPA. You have almost 3 pounds of specialty malts which will give it a solid malty backbone.

Yes that is what I was meaning with later additions of those hops. They have very nice aroma and flavor that in my opinion would be better suited for additions after 30min to effectively impart those qualities.

The cat pee is something that people say about amarillo and sometimes citra. It's just a certain flavor that can come out the earlier these hops get put in the boil which is why I said that. If your sensitive to that flavor then add them later, if your not and don't know what I am talking about then don't worry.

As for FWH, in my opinion the hop flavor/aroma just gets boiled off so there's not much of a point (many people have different opinions). You can leave it if you want to try it out. There's nothing wrong with that

Also, the reason for using centennial earlier is because it doesn't have that cat pee flavor so you can add it whenever but if you want to add some hops earlier I would use that one. LIke your 2nd hop schedule I would add them in the last 10 or 15min.

As for 0 min it is kind of similar to dry hopping but not really. The reason I say that is because the wort is still boiling hot when you put them in and the hops continue to steep in the hot wort over the cooling period so they do impart some of their flavor and aroma characteristics. It is similar to dry hopping but not quite the same. I like it because it seems to impart more aroma than boil additions.

If you like really flavor and aeromatic ipa's that aren't too bitter I would go with either hop schedule.

I would still dry hop with the three ounces but why only 7 days? 12 is pretty good but no more than 14.

is that grain bill made from leftover ingredients? if not, thats way too complicated. 3oz chocolate is too much for just color, you'll taste it. over 2lbs of crystal is way too much. nothing wrong with the acidulated, but with our water a lil gypsum should be all you need to get pH in range. personally, i'd just do marris otter, munich and C60

original hop schedule looks great, i wouldnt change anything cept maybe more bitterness if you're looking for assertive. with so much from late hops its going to be fairly soft

Yeah you are right about the chocolate now that I think about that more, you will taste it a bit... i would eliminate it and/or just have an ounce, maybe 2 in there. The bill is pretty compliacted and sometimes it's best to just simplify.

thanks guys.

the grain bill is about to be purchased right after i get off work! i wanted to try out honey malt and crystal rye. i also wanted a toasty flavor in there.

i'm building the water with 72% distilled / 28% cambridge tap, and then adjusting with gypsum, epsom, and calcium chloride to hit the Pale Ale water in Bru'n water. i just took out the acidulated and it's going to be alright.

i originally had 1 lb of wheat in there but replaced it with the carapils. if i went back to the wheat, that's only 9% crystal malt, which i read is average for an IPA.

the 3/4 lb corn sugar is in there to make sure it help bring down the FG so that it's malty but not overly sweet.

what about this?

5lbs US 2 row
5lbs maris otter
.5lb honey malt
.5lb munich
6oz c60
6oz victory
2oz PALE chocolate 200 SRM
.5lb corn sugar

If you want a bit of roasted flavor then that's fine. I would leave out the carapils like the grain bill you have (that one looks good). As far as epsom salt additions I would just leave it out. I use Bru n water too and epsom salt gave me a very minerally taste. You don't really need the magnesium as there's enough in the grains. If your doing it for sulfates then just use gypsum. Less is more for all of those...

laserghost said:

the grain bill is about to be purchased right after i get off work! i wanted to try out honey malt and crystal rye. i also wanted a toasty flavor in there.

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in that case, i would drop the victory & C60 and use 0.5lb cara rye in their place. cara-rye has a bit of a toasty character and couple that with the nuttiness in MO and you should have what you're looking for.