Sinking temps during sparge

I have a basic understanding of what those little alpha and beta amylases are up to during the mash. My mash tun holds temps fairly well in warm weather. Cold is a different story, but I’m working on building a mash blanket to help hold ‘em in place.

Anyway, that’s not the point. The point is that once I start (fly) sparging, the temp on the mash drops slowly but significantly, by the hour’s end landing around 140 F and I’m not sure there’s anything I can do about that.

Is this in any way reversing my efforts to create a full-bodied, lower-alcohol beer by mashing in at higher temps? Will the beta enzymes start kicking in again as the temp drops and ‘undo’ some of the chewy dextrins I’ve created?

I recognize that a mash out @ 168 will put me beyond the range of either enzyme, but the dropping temp issue is still present and I’ll probably end up right in the mix of things in temperatures around 150-155.

So, in short, what are the conversion effects of sinking temps during the sparge?
Can I rely on my mash temperatures do to the bulk of the work and not worry about what happens conversion-wise after 60 minutes of mashing?
Are folks here happy with their beer body building techniques?

I await brilliant responses, or redirection to another thread. (Honestly, I tried searching, but it’s hard to know what to search for sometimes.)

-jc

a mash-out will definitely help. i usually have quite a drop in my beers when i'm fly sparging (kind of half-assed, i call it splash-sparging) and i still get full bodied beers.

sounds like you simply need to increase the temperature of your sparge water. it should be above your desired mash temp so it keeps the mash temp consistent.

DeathBrewer said:

sounds like you simply need to increase the temperature of your sparge water. it should be above your desired mash temp so it keeps the mash temp consistent.

Click to expand...

I bring it to 182 before I dump it (quickly) into my 5 gal cooler HLT. I figured it was hot enough hitting the surface of the mash, but then quickly cools there before it has time to really effect the bulk of the mash temp.

If anybody else notices the same drop in temp during sparge, how hot do you get your sparge water in order to maintain?

(I think at some point, water can be TOO hot for the cooler, no?)

Is the temp in the hlt way down too? If so just add your sparge water in stages of 180 degree pours

Hey JudoChop,

I had this exact same experience on my last brew saturday. It was the first time I had fly sparged. Everything seemed to go fine, except for that falling mash tun temp. I use a direct fired recirculation mash tun. I raised the temps in the mash to 169 for mash out, then started the sparge. By the time the sparge was done (almost 2 hrs at 1 qt. per min.), the mash temp was down around 140. As soon as I noticed the mash temp dropping, I increase the temp of the HLT sparge water. However, no matter how high I went, the temps continued falling. I was up to 190 + with the sparge water! I was actually nervous about it being TOO hot.

So, I am looking for advise on this issue, too! I hope we can get some more responses!

After I had a couple gallons into the brew kettle, I fired it up on low just to get the temps up over the mash out temp of 168. BUT, the mash itself was still really low on the temps.

BTW, I use one pump to move sparge water from HLT to MLT and another pump to move the wort from the MLT to the Kettle.

Sorry about jacking your thread - but I didn't see the point in creating another one when you had the same thing here!

If you go into the HLT cooler at 185, the cooler walls itself are going to steal a lot of heat. If your mash is still at 155, the water dripping in will need to be at least at 185 because it will continue losing temp as it sits on top of the grain bed.

This is another reason I like batch sparging. The temp is what it is when you dump it in.

Yeah, Bobby you're right about batch sparging and temp control. This was my first time fly sparging - thought I would give is a try. It DID raise my efficiency from 65% to 72%, which was nice. But it took forever! I kinda wonder if my efficiency wouldn't have been even better if the mash temps had been in the right place throughout the sparge. (Always did your double batch sparge method before, Bobby, with great success ).

I did raise the mash temp to about 169 for mashout before beginning the sparge. It just continually cooled from there throughout the 2 hr sparge. (next time I fly sparge I am definitely going for more than 1 qt. per min.)

I wondered, like Judochop, what effects having the mash at a low temp during sparging would be.

And also what the effects would be of using very hot water (close to boiling) - to sparge with would be, in order to keep mash temps up.

sleepystevenson said:

I wondered, like Judochop, what effects having the mash at a low temp during sparging would be.

And also what the effects would be of using very hot water (close to boiling) - to sparge with would be, in order to keep mash temps up.

Click to expand...

I did some more 'research' on the subject (ie. asked the guru at my local HB shop) and discovered that there is really very little enzymatic activity to worry about after the mash. Once conversion has taken place, it has taken place and once beta-amylase has been denatured, it's out of the picture for good. Therefore there's no worrying about 'undoing' my dextrins with dropping temps during the sparge, which was my concern.

I guess the real benefit of maintaining a mash-out temp of 168 during the sparge is just for easier extraction. Warmer temps will make the sugars less sticky and allow for more efficiency in your run-off. The benefit: a few gravity points maybe.

I'm not sure if I'll be mashing-out at all anymore. At the same time, it's just a question of bringing another 1-2 gallons of water to a boil. Since I already have to bring 5 gallons of sparge water to 182, why not make it 7 gallons, and just bring another couple to a boil after filling my HLT cooler?

Indeed. Why NOT.

My understanding is mash out is primarily intended to denature the alpha and beta amylase enzymes so that the sugar profile present at the end of the sac rest(s) is preserved during sparging. Without the mash out any enzymes which have not been denatured can continue to act on the sugars present which is highly undesirable if your intention is a chewy beer like a porter.

As you said a secondary benefit is increased sugar solubility and a decrease in wort viscosity which makes it easier to rinse the sugars through and out of the grain bed.

Good insulation is the key if you are outside but if your weather has any breeze at all you may be in trouble. You may need a wind break of some sort. A mashout does help to get the sparge up to temperature so if you are fly sparging I would mashout. You will be able to get what you are after if you get control of the heat losses.

As said above, I don't think the betas are going to do much after the mash and mash out. After 15 minutes at 155, 40% of beta amylase has been denatured, so by the end of a full body mash, and a mash out, I would imagine that almost all the beta amylase has been denatured, so no need to really worry about it converting any further.

I fly sparge, and after my mash out at 168, I usually fall back to about 158 or so by the end of my sparge. 2 hours seems a bit long to me, I usually sparge at a rate of about 2qts/min with 185F water, and finish my sparging after about 45 - 60 minutes.