subwyking
Well-Known Member
what is a poor man's method to lagering, besides putting the carboy outside?
lager time
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bikebryan
Well-Known Member
Lagering outdoors isn't all that great. You need to keep the solution at a fairly stable temperature during lagering, and you really can't get that by keeping the fermentation vessel outside.
Face it, if you are getting into making lagers, you really need a lagering fridge/chest freezer or homemade chilling box.
Face it, if you are getting into making lagers, you really need a lagering fridge/chest freezer or homemade chilling box.
2nd Street Brewery
Well-Known Member
You can use a tub which is big enough to hold the bucket or carboy along with enough water to cover about half and room for ice once you get the temp of the water down to about 35-36 degrees you can maintain it by adding more ice once it melts. You just have to keep watching it to maintain the temp. Kind of labor intensive.
Can you use pilsner malt with Ale yeast?
How would that turn out?
How would that turn out?
orfy said:
Yes you can as long as it's a Kolsch yeast like White Labs WLP029 - "From a small brewpub in Cologne, Germany, this yeast works great in Kölsch and Alt style beers. Good for light beers like blond and honey. Accentuates hop flavors, similar to WLP001. The slight sulfur produced during fermentation will disappear with age"Attenuation: 72-78; Flocculation: Medium; Optimum Ferm. Temp: 65-69
Another that will work is:
WLP060 - "Our most popular strain is WLP001-California Ale yeast. This blend celebrates the strengths of California - clean, neutral fermentation, versatile usage and adds two other strains that belong in the same" clean/neutral" flavor category. The additional strains create complexity to the finished beer, and will taste more lager like than just WLP001. Hops flavors and bitterness are accentuated, but to the extreme of WLP001. Slight sulfur will be produced during fermentation. Attenuation: 72-80; Flocculation: medium; Optimum Ferm. Temp: 68-73
It will turn out slightly more fruty than a true lager yeast but it will still be light and crisp.
You don't HAVE to use those particular yeasts with pils malt (I think orfy was asking a general question about whether he could use ingredient XXX with yeast YYY, right?)
Malt is malt.
Yeast is yeast.
Put them together, and they will make beer.
A pils extract with any ale yeast will make something you can drink and (likely) enjoy. It might not be anything like a lager, but there's no reason you can't use (for example) irish ale yeast with a pils malt.
-walker
Malt is malt.
Yeast is yeast.
Put them together, and they will make beer.
A pils extract with any ale yeast will make something you can drink and (likely) enjoy. It might not be anything like a lager, but there's no reason you can't use (for example) irish ale yeast with a pils malt.
-walker
orfy said:
The other posts have answered your question in lots of ways, I just wanted to agree with ScottT that, if you want to get a lager-like product (light, crisp, with little "fruity" ester flavor) with an ale process (ferment at 60+, little or no lagering) then the Koelsch yeast is a really good bet.
I previously posted my pils-malt-plus-Koelsh-yeast recipe here; I used almost exclusively light malts and nothing but Saaz hops and, at the end of secondary, it definitely tastes a lot like a Bohemian pils. I was pretty enthusiastic in that other post; having tasted it after secondary (but still uncarbonated), I'm a little more circumspect. It's definitely good and I'll enjoy drinking it, but it's a bit off of Pilsner Urquell. Which should be no surprise, since the process is totally different
Next time I'll try a decoction mash with essentially the same ingredients (will lose the Munich, though, and may use only dry extract rather than syrup). But this one has the crisp maltiness and Saaz flavor & aroma that appeal to me in a pilsner, so I'm not disappointed.
I often wondered in the past what the difference between Lager and Ale was.
The end product is obvious, It is here anyway.
Commercialy an Ale is normaly darker heavier and tastier and severed warmer, Larger is normally fizzier colder and more watery than Ale and usually drank by "larger louts"
But since my homebrew eduction I now know the difference but am not sure I'll be tempted into putting in the extra effort required to brew it.
It is normally or should be:
Brewed with a pilsner type malt?
Fermented at a lower temp than Ale using a bottom fermenting yeast.
Secondary fermented at a just above freezing for longer than Ale.
Can still be hoppy and full bodied?
The end product is obvious, It is here anyway.
Commercialy an Ale is normaly darker heavier and tastier and severed warmer, Larger is normally fizzier colder and more watery than Ale and usually drank by "larger louts"
But since my homebrew eduction I now know the difference but am not sure I'll be tempted into putting in the extra effort required to brew it.
It is normally or should be:
Brewed with a pilsner type malt?
Fermented at a lower temp than Ale using a bottom fermenting yeast.
Secondary fermented at a just above freezing for longer than Ale.
Can still be hoppy and full bodied?
Walker said:
No, he was asking what ingredients to make a lager like product using those ingredients.
Walker said:
This is true but he was specificly talking about lagering without adequate temp control. And how to achieve a lager like product using pils malt and an ale yeast. Irish ale yeast ain't gonna get that done and neither are most British ale yeasts.
OP
OP
subwyking
Well-Known Member
so ive gotten one suggestion the carboy in water thing. anyone else got any ideas?
How about using a wort chiller as an heat exchanger?
You can lager outside if the daily average temperature is in the correct range by heavily insulating the carboy. Such as wrapping the carboy in layers of old blankets or cardboard. A large cardboard box full of shredded newspaper would also work.
DeRoux's Broux
Well-Known Member
the best bet is to use the water tub/ice trick. other than that, you'll need a fridge/chest freezer with an external thermostat to manipulate the temp. you can do a Kolsch brew, but it will really benefit from a lower ferm temp (upper 50's-60's) and a 4-6 week cold conditioning. but, you can still do it at regular ale temps.
El Pistolero
Well-Known Member
The carboy in water thing is pretty much it...unless you're handy, in which case you could build a fermentation chiller. IIRC the materials for one of those run about $75.subwyking said:
I just got my homebrew kit on x-mas(2006),so sorry if this thread is a little outdated. my first brew is an octoberfest lagger, antd i live in an appartment, therefore i dont have a cool basement or a lot of money to buy a specialized cooler so here is what i did. i took the box that my kit came in and turned it into an insulated cooler.
I cut one side of the box along the bottom, one side,and the top to make a door. than i cut a square hoe in the back of the box the same size as a 12volt compuer cooling fan that i had. made a square cardboard tube that connected the fan to a cardboard sill plate that ran across the bottom of my window( i made the sill plate as long as my window so that i could close my window on it and seal the outside air from getting into my warm appartment). this provided a cold air supply into my "chill box", but i found that without a vent for the warmer air to excape, the system wouldn't work right. i used a couple of paper towel rolls to vent the box. I cut a hole in the very top of the back side of the box and ran the tube down to the sill plate. i figure hot air rises, so let's force the hot air out first. anyway, the fan is connected to a thermostat from a small elecric heater. unfortunately, this thermostat was designed to turn somthing "on" if the temperature was too low, and turn somthing "off" if the temperature was too high. this was exactly opposite of how i needed to controll my fan. the solution was to power this fan off of a 5 pole automotive relay thus reversing the function of the thermostat. the whole thing is powered of of a 12 volt power supply inverter that plugs into the wall. i figure as long as the outside temperature is below 45 it should work o.k. this is the second day of my fermentation and i've held a steady 53 degree temp in the box. this system didnt cost me anything to build because i had most of the parts lying arround. one more thing, i noticed the fan was running alot longer than it wasn't running. i figured it was because my appatment was warming the box too much. I insulated the box with a layer of black garbage bag and 2 beach towels and it dosent seem to short cycle as badly. anyway gotta go figure out how to brew lager in the summer.its allready january!
Matt-
I cut one side of the box along the bottom, one side,and the top to make a door. than i cut a square hoe in the back of the box the same size as a 12volt compuer cooling fan that i had. made a square cardboard tube that connected the fan to a cardboard sill plate that ran across the bottom of my window( i made the sill plate as long as my window so that i could close my window on it and seal the outside air from getting into my warm appartment). this provided a cold air supply into my "chill box", but i found that without a vent for the warmer air to excape, the system wouldn't work right. i used a couple of paper towel rolls to vent the box. I cut a hole in the very top of the back side of the box and ran the tube down to the sill plate. i figure hot air rises, so let's force the hot air out first. anyway, the fan is connected to a thermostat from a small elecric heater. unfortunately, this thermostat was designed to turn somthing "on" if the temperature was too low, and turn somthing "off" if the temperature was too high. this was exactly opposite of how i needed to controll my fan. the solution was to power this fan off of a 5 pole automotive relay thus reversing the function of the thermostat. the whole thing is powered of of a 12 volt power supply inverter that plugs into the wall. i figure as long as the outside temperature is below 45 it should work o.k. this is the second day of my fermentation and i've held a steady 53 degree temp in the box. this system didnt cost me anything to build because i had most of the parts lying arround. one more thing, i noticed the fan was running alot longer than it wasn't running. i figured it was because my appatment was warming the box too much. I insulated the box with a layer of black garbage bag and 2 beach towels and it dosent seem to short cycle as badly. anyway gotta go figure out how to brew lager in the summer.its allready january!
Matt-
