Anybody ever start off brewing AG..??

I have one extract batch under my belt but after reading in this forum I am ready to give that up already to start brewing AG.

Am I crazy for thinking this way or should I at least do some partial mashes first before jumping into AG? Here's the thing, I'm a bit of a beer snob so I like big beers, the kind I think I will only come close to brewing by going with a full mash. Plus I am thinking the flavor and body would be fuller as well.

With a great reference in this site alone, I feel like I can't really go wrong. So I am curious if anybody jumped into all grain brewing right off the bat or is it necessary or maybe even common knowledge to start simple with extract and partials? And if you did was it way more than you expected or overwhelming..?

I don't think it's unknown for brewers to start planning after their first brew. But it normally takes time for them to start making and collecting kit. In this time they, read, ask and learn. By the time they are ready they normally have most of the question answered and a few more extract brews under their belt. Others take years and some never leave extract brewing.

Different strokes.

I think I moved into AG after a couple of months of brewing with kits. I did one extract batch, then did a partial mash lager, then went into AG. Partial mash is a good way to ease yourself in gently. Brewing is a really forgiving process, as long as you keep everything clean, it will still be beer. My first AG was a bit of a disaster but it's still one of the best beers of made. Just read everything you can.

Yeah, I'm debating on a partial mash or full grain for my next batch. Right now as it stands I have a recipe concocted with grains and extract but it could easily be converted to AG. For the sake of taking it slow and learning the mashing process maybe I'll stick with a PM this time around.

I think i"m just overly excited to get into AG brewing. :rockin:

I look at brewing pretty much as cooking (with as little or as much science added in as you like). If you can cook a little bit and follow directions, and if you have your equipment all set up to do it, I don't see why you couldn't do an AG right off the bat.

People talk about Extract Brewing like banging a fat chick- as if it's something not to be discussed, or something to be avoided.

I have recently made the leap to all grain brewing, but guess what- I doubt I will stop doing Extract batches. Why should I? I can buy the ingredients and brew something in 2 hours. What's wrong with that? Why would it worry you to do this? Why would you avoid it?

No matter how you start brewing, if you're smart about it, you will use LME/DME. And why shouldn't you? The stuff has a large variety of uses (priming, upping the SG, for fortifying barleywines to ridiculous SG's, partial mashing with second runnings, adding flavor/color, etc.)

The only good reason against starting off with AG is the additional equipment. I agree with orfy. All the equipment used in Extract brewing is also used in AG. So buy the stuff you need to do Extract batches and get the basics of sanitation and procedure down. While you're doing that, make some decisions about HOW you want to go AG.

Are you going to batch sparge or fly sparge? What kind of manifold will you use? Are you going for max efficiency, or don't you care about spending an extra dollar per batch on grain? How will you set up your equipment? Are you going to do decoctions? Etc etc etc...

Sure, you can do AG from the start. In fact, I'm helping someone do exactly that. However, I'm recommending the simplest methods possible and when he's up and running, it'll be up to him to learn why I suggested the procedures I did. I guess that's true with anything.

As I see it, there are two recipes that combine in brewing. The first recipe is your ingredients. The second recipe is your process. By starting out AG, the second recipe will be from a cookbook, but the first recipe will be yours to fiddle with. Of course, this is also what Extract brewing does- minimize the amount of control you have over the "second" recipe.


In the end, if you want to run out and buy extra equipment before you've even brewed a batch, then it's your money to spend. But since there is nothing wrong with Extract Brewing, as you assemble your equipment, why not do an extract batch or two just to get your feet wet?


I promise... extract brewing is not like banging a fat chick. Just do it a few times, you'll like it, we won't make fun of you, and then you can move on to better things with a little bit of experience under your belt....

Oh wait. Maybe extract brewing IS like banging a fat chick. :cross:

Toot said:

People talk about Extract Brewing like banging a fat chick- as if it's something not to be discussed, or something to be avoided.

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I don't think that's the case at all. Some fine recipes have been crafted out of extracts. Having sampled both, I'll take a good extract over a bad all-grain any day.

Cheesefood said:

I don't think that's the case at all. Some fine recipes have been crafted out of extracts. Having sampled both, I'll take a good extract over a bad all-grain any day.

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Yes. Extract recipes can be quite tasty. I never meant to suggest otherwise. And banging a fat chick can be fun too. (just dont let your friends see)....


Extract brewing is still the easier method that offers less control over the finished product, though it does perhaps offer more predictable results.

I'm glad I started with extract because I feel like I've had a LOT of successful batches which ensured I will stick with the hobby. I also progressed into full boil extract to ramp up for all grain so that I didn't have to deal with so many unknowns. You have a couple detailed parts that when put together can be very daunting for a beginner. Sanitizing, Boil/hop schedules, Chilling, Aerating, Pitching, Fermentation temp control, Racking, Bottling. If you go all right away, add mash/sparge volume calculations and temp control to the long list. I'm glad I got the first items under control first.

People talk about Extract Brewing like banging a fat chick

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You make it out like banging fat chicks is a bad thing.

seefresh said:

You make it out like banging fat chicks is a bad thing.

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It is whilst brewing!

I went straight from extract to AG... I'm not sure about partial mashing... it seems like, if you are gonna go through the trouble of mashing at all, you should just go ahead and mash the whole thing.

I started off doing all grain, I read some books, built some equipment, the rest is history! It is doable, I read Papazians book and built some equipment, this forum will serve you well too. IT IS DOABLE and it is a fin ride! Your learning curve is really steep!

Pol

I think that if you understand the all grain brewing process you could make a go of it. It really isn't all that difficult. It will take more time but you have the advantage of a lot more control over color and ingredients. You can also drive down costs per batch if you buy in bulk and mill your own grain. There is an original investment that is greater than extract brewing.
Also don't confuse all grain brewing with making a big beer. You can make a perfectly great big beer using extracts.

I know that I just made my 5th extract brew this past Sunday. It seems like every time I start to think "Hey this brewing stuff is a piece of cake, I know exactly what I'm doing" I come across something in this forum that tells me that I did something wrong. Doh! Well too late to fix it now, I'll have to remember that for the next batch.

I know that I'll be moving to AG in the very near future but I'm glad that I started with extract brewing to at least learn the basics and how things work.

Just my $.02

I've never made an extract or partial mash brew. Got about 8 AG batches under my belt well and all but one turned out excellent. (Somehow it got contaminated into the primary)

It didn't really seem that daunting at all.

-Dylan

I started this hobby because my brother bought some stuff at a garage sale. $20 for one steep/pm kit, two buckets, 4 cornies, one co2 tank. Thermo, hydro, and a POS wing capper. The kit was for an Irish over-hopped red. (I'm not a hop head). Even so, I thought that was fun. We drank it all up within12 days after brew day.

But thought I ought to learn more before I made another batch. So I got on the net. For a year. While gathering equipment and books from the swap meets. Next batch was AG. Mashed in an electric roaster, sparged in my bottling bucket, boiled over a re-cycled wall heater burner on propane (smokey), fermented in a 6 gal carboy ($5). Bottled with an antique all iron capper. Bottled in glass from the dumpster behind the pub next door. I was AG-ing for $35 total for all the equipment.

AG # 17 is in the fermenter now. Flat Ass Tired.

I never brewed with extract, balled a fat chick or lied.

I don't bang fat chicks, ever, but I do an occasional extract batch. I tend to use extract for very hoppy, low-malt IPA's and such. I like mini-mashes best, 97% of the flavor of AG with 1/2 the work.

On the OP, I know a couple people that went straight to AG. Some of them have been brewing long enough that there wasn't much of a choice. One guy even malted barley for his first batch!

My first brew was AG - It was about 6 weeks ago - I'm going to do my 4th AG batch tomorrow.
Brewiz taught me AG (and very well I might add) and that is all I know, so thats what I brew. My 1st and 2nd batch turned out awesome

My 3rd batch is a wheat beer - we'll see what SWMBO thinks about it in a week or two - She said my IPA batches were pretty good - and she is not a hop-head like me.

Tomorrow I'm re-doing batch #2 - 15 lbs of grain for 5 Gal. and an aggressive hop schedule. AG allows you to create your own magic - thats what I dig about it!

Later... and throw a few more hops in the wort OK!

I like banging any chick fat or skinny medium sized hell it doesn't matter. Same with brewing. Extract is good when you don't have much time, but AG is undoubtedly better. I see no problem starting off with AG as long as you have read enough to understand the process.

I wish that I had started with all grain.
Equipment was my constraining factor.

If you can afford an all grain setup then go for it.
If you can't then do extract.
Both can make very good beer

All women are attractive at closing time.

Thanks for the input all...

Seefresh, I see your point and my thinking was along those lines as well, if you do partial might as well go the whole distance. I have a turkey fryer and plenty of room in my garage.

I know you can make some awesome brews using extract and I wasn't trying to dispute that at all, I guess I prefer more control and variation which is what I was looking forward to when I decided to jump into homebrewing. Who knows, I may hate brewing AG and go back but I won't know without trying and I might as well get started practicing now.

I've researched equipment and methods for a solid 2-3 weeks and you all have provided a ton of valuable info. Thanks. I'll let you know how it goes if and when I actually brew my first AG!

There's loads of how to guides.
I've just put one in the wiki.

Hey, also man, I went from extract to AG with only one new piece of equipment... 10 gal cooler and some copper tubing I sawed and pieced together (with elbows) to make my MLT. I used the same boiling pots I used for extract, same fermenters.. etc., etc.... the MLT was my only upgrade. I've since upgraded to a turkey fryer, I was having to boild two pots at the same time because I couldn't get 5 gallons going in one pot on my stove... was a real pain.

I bought a couple books - Ray Daniel's Designing Great Beers and John Palmer's How to Brew. I read them both cover-to-cover, and then re-read Palmer's sections on AG brewing a couple more times. I then proceeded to download BeerSmith and starting playing around with that software (which, by the way, I contribute a lot of the success I've had with AG brewing), and using Ray Daniel's book to generate some of my own recipes.

My very first homebrew was an AG Fat Tire Amber Ale Clone which came out great. I made that batch in September of 2006, and since then, I've brewed 12 additional AG batches. With the exception of a Raspberry Dunkelweizen, they all came out great. (The only "problem" with the Dunkelweizen was that I used too much pureed raspberries, and it was, well, too raspberryish !)

Personally, I do not find AG brewing very difficult - time consuming, yes, but not difficult. There is no reason why somebody cannot start out as an AG brewer and be very sucessul as opposed to 'aspiring' to one day be an AG brewer. If you can bake a cake from scratch, you can certainly make good AG beer.

- GL63

I started off with AG and have never done an extract batch , Also I am a bit of a beer snob and like the big beers also. Right now I have bottled my hophead IIPA that evens out at a nice 8.9% and tastes wonderfull it is entered in Sam Adams home brew contest, and in my secondary is my dubbel trouble wich at last measurment was 10.2% and still fermenting. The only problem I have is my efficiancy with large beers I am using around 20 pound of grain and getting around 55-60% efficiancy with large beers but that is the max my equipment can handle I am currently working on a larger system. Basicaly you can start off with all grain but watch your equipment and what it can handle, also dont get discouraged my first beer didnt turn out well at all but as I figured out my equipment every batch got better! HAPPY ST. PATRICKS DAY

i cant wait to start AG brewing im ordering my stuff tomarrow. i have been champping at the bit for a while myself and kept makeing excuses. like i dont have the room or the time. swwmob say hell with that gave me free rain to make the office my brew and said go ahead and shop just do it smart. well i know im an impluse guy so AG here i come. i think ill start simple and do a pale ale for my 1st. well ill let you know how it goes

morbid53 said:

I started off with AG and have never done an extract batch , Also I am a bit of a beer snob and like the big beers also. Right now I have bottled my hophead IIPA that evens out at a nice 8.9% and tastes wonderfull it is entered in Sam Adams home brew contest, and in my secondary is my dubbel trouble wich at last measurment was 10.2% and still fermenting. The only problem I have is my efficiancy with large beers I am using around 20 pound of grain and getting around 55-60% efficiancy with large beers but that is the max my equipment can handle I am currently working on a larger system. Basicaly you can start off with all grain but watch your equipment and what it can handle, also dont get discouraged my first beer didnt turn out well at all but as I figured out my equipment every batch got better! HAPPY ST. PATRICKS DAY

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Yeah IIPA is hands down my favorite style, super complex and malty with plenty of alcohol! I used beertools to come up with a recipe for Maharaja IIPA from Avery brewing since I couldn't find a clone anywhere...and yeah it calls for about 18.5 lbs of grain.

So how big is your setup..? What size would you recommend for a MLT for instance..? Also, I will probably do batch sparging when it comes time so does that lower your efficiency..?

right now the setup I use is 2 7 gal masterbuilt electric deep fryers. one I use for my sparge and the second wich I equipped with a perforated stainless steel filter I built at work for my mash / lauter / boil. like I said for the big beers my system gets maxed out so I would look for at least 8 gal capacity more would be better I am working on a 10 gal system made out of 3 used beer kegs to alow for what I hope will be a better eficeincy. Also the electric is nice because it is much easier to control temperature.