Fermentation at 84*F

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DasBaldDog

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I am writing this for posterity, so anyone who searches later and does not come up with a resolution (as I did) can find this. I will update the posting at all notable intervals so the future searcher may find possible answers.



My wife (a budding enthusiast) brewed a "Brewers Best" American Cream Ale yesterday. Edit* Using Nottingham Ale Yeast


In my rush, we did not measure the temperature of the boiled wort + pre-boiled water combo. The wort itself was 75*ish after chilling with the immersion chiller.

We pitched the yeast starter into said Wort and took it upstairs.

It was at this point that I checked the gravity (1.049) and the temperature (it read off the top of the scale which ends at 82*). I didn't panic as the house is kept at 60* at night when we sleep and 68* when we're awake, and assumed that there would be some lag time as I usually don't get fermentation for about 36+ hours after pitching.


When I woke up, I heard an odd sound... turns out the krausen was popping through the econolock. I quickly ran downstairs and star-sanned a blowoff tube and swapped out the econolock.

Checking the temperature, I found it reading 82* and bubbling FURIOUSLY. I turned down the heater, and put a fan on the carboy. It was down to 75* within the hour. (This was roughly 14 hours after pitching)

I came home for lunch to check the status and the temp was 72*. Still bubbling but significantly slower. The bubbling smell is 25% Rhino fart, 75% usual sweet beer smell.

When I came home (24 hours after pitching) it is still bubbling 2-4 per second. Smell is the same. Temperature is now 68* (62 in the house) and I left the fan on it.


Am looking into a chest freezer for future brews... but this is where I am at the moment.




Like I said, mainly posting this so that others can either read and relax (assuming a good outcome) or learn and take immediate corrective actions (in just about all situations). (and as I mentioned, I will be updating as frequently as the situation dictates).



HOWEVER, if anyone has any good input, I would be more than happy to listen/read.

But for now, I'mma go Relax and drink a homebrew.
 
HOWEVER, if anyone has any good input, I would be more than happy to listen/read.

But for now, I'mma go Relax and drink a homebrew.

Not much input, except to reiterate what you already know- fermentation increases the temperature of the fermenter.

A good technique is to cool the wort to 65 or less, and then add the yeast.
 
I've done the same thing. Had an off flavor, but after being in the keg for about 3 weeks, it was fine. Flavors back to normal, and it was great beer.
 
Not much input, except to reiterate what you already know- fermentation increases the temperature of the fermenter.

A good technique is to cool the wort to 65 or less, and then add the yeast.


Yooper,

My thoughts exactly..... I just wasn't paying attention. My own fault. I am going to make notes so that I do not make this mistake again.
 
I've done the same thing. Had an off flavor, but after being in the keg for about 3 weeks, it was fine. Flavors back to normal, and it was great beer.


This is encouraging.

I am prepping to be tolerant of an extended wait to fully enjoy this brew.
 
Probably don't need to go all the way to buying a chest freezer yet. im the future, try putting the carboy into a Rubbermaid tub, adding cool water and putting a t shirt over the carboy, hanging into the water. The capillary action will pull cold water up the carboy and work wonders for keeping fermentation temps under control. If its really hot then add some ice to the water but this method really is effective wit just water, with most fermentations you can add ice at peak action and that will be enough.

Sure, its not ideal but I doubt pitching the yeast at 75 degrees had much effect on the ferm temps going so high, if your starter was ready to roll when it went in it just got busy fast and hard (hey now!)

I did the t shirt trick with a Belgian Strong a few weeks ago. Fermenting with ambient temps a consistent 66 degrees I was able to hold it at 72 at peak fermentation and 64 once fermentation activity subsided, and I only added ice once.
 
Probably don't need to go all the way to buying a chest freezer yet. im the future, try putting the carboy into a Rubbermaid tub, adding cool water and putting a t shirt over the carboy, hanging into the water. The capillary action will pull cold water up the carboy and work wonders for keeping fermentation temps under control. If its really hot then add some ice to the water but this method really is effective wit just water, with most fermentations you can add ice at peak action and that will be enough.

Sure, its not ideal but I doubt pitching the yeast at 75 degrees had much effect on the ferm temps going so high, if your starter was ready to roll when it went in it just got busy fast and hard (hey now!)

I did the t shirt trick with a Belgian Strong a few weeks ago. Fermenting with ambient temps a consistent 66 degrees I was able to hold it at 72 at peak fermentation and 64 once fermentation activity subsided, and I only added ice once.


Gotcha.

The main reason behind the chest freezer is that SWMBO wants to brew all the year long... and we get 80+ ambients in the summer time and from my perspective it would be nice to more accurately control the ferm temps.

My main issue with the swamp cooler concept is that I do not have an ice maker, much in the way of spare tub space... and an engineer's inclination to over complicate everything. :)


BTW: I have been lurking on this forum for over 2 years, reading everything I can get my hands on... going to be a contributing member (financially... and eventually intellectually) as soon as all the bills are paid. This website has been in one word, INVALUABLE, to my experiences through my 5 batches since I started.


Note: My wife actually purchased my beginner's brewing kit (not Mr Beer) following a rather sad family event, to keep my mind off of it all... and since she has stated that our brew days are "one of her favoriate activities together"
 
DasBaldDog
and an engineer's inclination to over complicate everything.

I've got the same problem. I'm in the middle of a fermentation chamber build. I chest freezer would have been cheaper, but I'll need a new kegerator. Guess that's what the chest freezer will be.

MORE BEER:D
 
A good technique is to cool the wort to 65 or less, and then add the yeast.

+1.

I'm afraid of what you're going to end up with a those temps and Nottingham. It's a excellent dry yeast, but it likes cool temps (down to 55*F) and is quite intolerant of ferment temps above 68*F. The only thing to do is bottle and see if it resolves over time. It may take several weeks or even months.

Time to get going on that fermentation chamber, huh? FYI- you can put together a dandy chamber with a used freezer (check Craigslist) and a controller box made with an STC-1000 dual temp control for around $100 total.
 
Since it always gets cool here in the mountains, I try to time it so that the yeast gets going in the night, when it cools down. Room temp is low 60's in the morning, but brew temp is usually around 65-66. Even then, the yeast is trying to go crazy (Nottingham especially).

I'd hate to see 84, better get a blowoff tube or something :)
 
billpaustin said:
Since it always gets cool here in the mountains, I try to time it so that the yeast gets going in the night, when it cools down. Room temp is low 60's in the morning, but brew temp is usually around 65-66. Even then, the yeast is trying to go crazy (Nottingham especially).

I'd hate to see 84, better get a blowoff tube or something :)

You're lucky. I wish it was in the low 60's here all the time. It's 90 one day, then 68 the next. It's almost summer, that's the easiest time. It's always 100-120ish. A/C running full speed, that's when I always get the best results.
 
Update:

Checked last night before bed (28ish hours after yeast addition). Having kept the house at 62 all day (I didn't raise the temp when I got home like I normally do), the thermo strip was reading 70*, so it climbed two degrees since I turned the fan off of it. The blowoff was bubbling roughly 2 times per second unevenly. (Yep, am aware that bubbling is not necessarily an indication of anything).

Beer appearance is a light to middle yellow and extremely cloudy (I would call it "Squash" colored).

When I went to bed, I uncovered the carboy (being dark) and turned the overhead fan on high.

Woke up this morning, roughly 36ish hours after adding yeast, to find it still bubbling at about the same rate... maybe a little slower. Temperature is now reading 64/66* (both are lit up on the strip). Going to leave the house cold again today and possibly tomorrow before going back to my routine of raising the house temperature when I am home.

Color and appearance have not changed (didn't expect it to, but since I had to look at the thermometer, figured I would make note of the color/apparent texture while I was at it.

The exhaust smell from the blowoff bottle is now about 15-20% rhino fart with 80-85% sweet beer smell.

Plans for a long, restful fermentation/secondary/bottling have not changed.



What does the group suggest as the best way to try and clear up the unpleasantness (if any even exists). I realize that I am making plans early... not really PLANS... more contingencies :)
-Long time in primary
-Long time in secondary
-Long time in bottling
-Any combination of the three... or a rejection of all three?




*any repetative notations that may look like "Worry Warting" are probably simply "Engineer's Ambition", a strange and wonderful addiction to trying to be as precise and accurate as possible, sometimes to the point of annoying people or looking like "nervous Nellys".
 
Personally, I'd go with about 3weeks in the primary, and if it smelled funny on transfer, try dry hopping it a little in the secondary. Or just let it sit in the bottles and try one every once in a while to see how age treats it.
 
I'd go 3 in primary as well. I'm worried you are going to have fusel alcohols (headache maker), but there is nothing to be done about that now. Cream ales are delicious, but there is not much to cover any off flavors. My fingers are crossed. BTW, my first batch was an Amber with Notty and I had similar issues with early temps (a few degrees cooler). It had a definite twang early on, but actually aged out pretty decent after 8-12 weeks in the bottle.

My rule of thumb is to always warm the yeast until fermentation is complete, but to start out on the very low end. So the liquid yeast sits in the fridge at ~ 40F. Cool the wort as low as I can, usually 60F for most ales. Pitch the yeast. Put it somewhere to warm up a couple of degrees to start fermentation. Hold temps for the exothermic part of the fermentation (usually first 48-60 hrs). Then let it rise as fermentation continues.
 
This happened to me with my last batch. I brewed the WH Honey porter with Nottingham yeast. On day two of fermentation the weather surprisingly got hot and my fermenting temps went to 85 degrees for two days. I was stuck at work for those two days and my wife informed me of the high temps. I was pissed off and was worried that I ruined the whole batch, after doing much research on this forum and other forums.

I ended up leaving it in primary for two weeks, then transfered to secondary. During the transfer the beer smelled like rotten eggs and the beer had a slight green taste. I left it for one more week in secondary then tasted it again.

The second taste was amazing. So much change from the original flavor. I was amazed how Nottingham yeast was able to "clean up" after a very warm primary fermentation. My neighbor came over and tasted the brew, he thought it was absolutely delicious for an uncarbonated beer. Given the positive results I decided to bottle. The aging will continue for at least three weeks in the bottle, I can't wait to try the first one.

Moral of the story....have faith in today's yeast. The yeast is much better these days than say 10 years ago. Also don't be afraid to ask questions and do research, however don't let the answers you find discourage you. The first few days of fermentation is no doubt the most important and temps need to be under control. Although time is key to a lot of mistakes and patience is strongly encouraged.

I mostly keg my beer but because of this mistake I needed to age it while longer, so bottling is the solution I came up with. I ended up brewing another batch and making sure I didn't screw that one up so I can keg and enjoy in a few weeks vs. months.

I think your batch will be fine because you took immediate action. I on the other hand couldn't take immediate action and I still made a great beer that even my neighbors will enjoy.
 
Update this morning... about 62 hours after pitching yeast.

Material still cloudy and a light yellow.

Temperature is 63/64*, which is about 3* above ambient where the carboy is located.

Still bubbling, though activity has slowed to roughly 1/second.

Exhaust smell is becoming still sweeter and the musty smell is disappearing.


Meanwhile, my amber ale (1st Ale-mendment) is conditioning nicely in secondary and unless I run out of other stocks (unlikely) will continue to age right next to my cream ale.


Does anyone know if there is like a Slickdeals.net for homebrew? (if you don't know what Slickdeals is.... prepare your wallet to be assailed daily).
 
Alright,

Almost one week after brew and it is starting to clear ever so slightly.

The exhaust smell is my normal beer sweet, but we are still getting one bubble every 2-3 seconds.... *confused* This is abnormal for me. Normally by this point I get a bubble every few minutes. Oh well, let it do its thing I guess.

Going to leave it in primary for 2 more weeks, and then make a decision whether or not to stuff her in the closet (colder in there) for a secondary to try and clear up a bit (both color and nasty byproducts).
 
Alright,

Almost one week after brew and it is starting to clear ever so slightly.

The exhaust smell is my normal beer sweet, but we are still getting one bubble every 2-3 seconds.... *confused* This is abnormal for me. Normally by this point I get a bubble every few minutes. Oh well, let it do its thing I guess.

Going to leave it in primary for 2 more weeks, and then make a decision whether or not to stuff her in the closet (colder in there) for a secondary to try and clear up a bit (both color and nasty byproducts).

I've read that warmer temps after the initial phase of fermentation is actually a good thing because it keeps the yeast in suspension to "clean up". Also if you are only doing 3 weeks before bottling/kegging then I would just leave it in primary the whole time rather than racking to a secondary.
 
I brewed a batch that I allowed to lurk in the high 70's and low 80's. The yeast was S-04 which shouldn't ever go above 70 degrees. The esters where definitely noticable. However, a long conditioning of about 3 months improved it considerably and it ended up being a decent beer. None-the-less, I avoid high temps now. The point is that the beer will be most likely be good and there isn't any reason to believe it is ruined.
 
Okay.

Probably final update.


The beer was bottled about 3 weeks ago after cold crashing for 3 days at 35*.


It is crisp, clear and delicious. It has a slight sweetness to it, but no banana or other noticeable fruit flavors.

All in all, another homebrew that screwed up and turned out great.
 
Okay.

Probably final update.


The beer was bottled about 3 weeks ago after cold crashing for 3 days at 35*.


It is crisp, clear and delicious. It has a slight sweetness to it, but no banana or other noticeable fruit flavors.

All in all, another homebrew that screwed up and turned out great.

Great! After doing what you did I have learned to have faith in the yeast.
 
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