Home Brew Won't be Served at St Louis Brewers Heritage Festival for 2012

I didn't see any other posts regarding this, so thought I'd put this up.

The St Louis Excise Commission has deemed the serving of free home brewed beer at the Brewer's Heritage Festival to be illegal. Though this has been going on since 2007 and the State of Missouri liquor control board have signed off on this as being ok, the organizers of this years event came to the conclusion that if an attendee is buying a ticket and unlicensed brewers are serving their brew, then that is illegal.

I've read on here, somewhere, of this happening in other states. In those states where this has been remedied, how was that done?

The festival is 4 days away and I'm sure it won't be resolved by then. Shame too since there was over 700 gallons of home brew going to be served over the course of the 3 day festival.


http://www.stltoday.com/entertainme...cle_f1f1a866-b439-11e1-ab83-0019bb30f31a.html

Wow! That's too bad. I don't know if it has ever been challenged in California. I know of several homebrew clubs that have poured at commercial beer festivals but not to the level/amount that you guys had going on.
I hope the AHA gets involved and you guys get this straightened out for next year.

As a regular volunteer for the festival this is very upsetting. I would love the focus to be on both great Midwestern craft beer and saint louis home brew. Amazing and sad the amount of increasing regulation and enforcement on home brewing as of late.

I know it seems ****ty, but good things can come of this. In Oregon, we had a year where we couldn't legally transport homebrew outside our homes (even for competitions) after the OLCC looked at how our laws were worded. Now we have some of the most liberal homebrew laws in the nation. Use this as an opportunity to get your representatives to work for you.

Could they buy the ticket for a raffle? Just have a couple prizes on offer!!! Or else maybe the people attending make a contribution to the cost of running the event or similar

Unfortunately in St. Louis this means we won't allow it unless we get paid. I am dissapointed about it.

It's bigger than a raffle. It's the premier beer event for St Louis and the proceeds go to a local charity. Hopefully we'll be able to do something like Oregon an get some rules clarified.

The home brewer is not getting paid for the beer produced... the persons paying the fee are not necessarily going to drink the home brew. Their argument is invalid... particularly if the ABC board has already signed off on it. My guess is that this actually comes from someone being in a beer distributor's pocket.

so, we gonna do about one of these a year then?

At the Charlotte Oktoberfest the homebrewers are at least as popular as the commercial brewer's tents...there are (I think) three major brew clubs, and they all bring mondo amounts of homebrew. NC does actually have some fairly progressive beer laws though...about 7 yrs ago the raised the max abv and really opened up the doors for craft brewing.

stlbeer said:

It's bigger than a raffle. It's the premier beer event for St Louis and the proceeds go to a local charity. Hopefully we'll be able to do something like Oregon an get some rules clarified.

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There's your answer, It's all going to charity, just have the tickets state that the $ are for charity NOT for entry or any other reason. Do get the rules clarified just in case.

stlbeer said:

IThough this has been going on since 2007 and the State of Missouri liquor control board have signed off on this as being ok, the organizers of this years event came to the conclusion that if an attendee is buying a ticket and unlicensed brewers are serving their brew, then that is illegal.

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So from what I read here... the ORGANIZERS said they weren't going to do it? Because it sounds like the State is just fine with it.

If so, I'll bet this has something to do with that stupid neighboring state (cough, cough, IL) having sticks up their bums (cough, cough, ILCC) about the same issue. Fact is, Missouri's laws permit serving of homebrew outside the home. Hell, in some cases even distilling is legal in Missouri.

EDIT: I read the actual article. Looks like we got Dan Kopman on our side. He knows what's up. Him and Tom Schlafly are the ones who got the "legal brewpub" laws passed way back in 1991 in Missouri. Oh, and there'll be a private homebrew party next month. Sweet! Maybe I can make it now!

Yeah, the good guys are on our side. It seems to be the City of St Louis Excise Commission. This can probably be easily resolved before next year's event. I doubt much can be done about it this year. I'm keeping my fingers crossed though hoping the powers that be figure it out.

wailingguitar said:

The home brewer is not getting paid for the beer produced... the persons paying the fee are not necessarily going to drink the home brew. Their argument is invalid... particularly if the ABC board has already signed off on it. My guess is that this actually comes from someone being in a beer distributor's pocket.

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Even having the opportunity to drink the homebrew conditioned on purchasing entry can equate to "selling" the homebrew, even if the brewer sees no remuneration personally.

so, if i sold $20 tickets to my basement, and once in you could drink my homebrew, you're saying that's legal?

unionrdr said:

I think that's the point that needs clarifying. You're paying to get into the event,not paying for the home brews. It needs to be stressed that the hb'rs aren't getting a single penny. Someone is in sombody elses' vest pocket I think.

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Doesn't matter. The organizers of the event are making money from the beer available at the event, whether it is commercial or homebrew, whether each person drinks each beer available or only one beer. Therefore, the homebrew is contributing to the financial benefit of the organizers.

Realistically, nobody (except the stray kid or DD) is paying to look at the brewers and the taps. They are there to drink.

I believe this is, as other people point out, legally equivalent to somebody buying a ticket to an event to drink homebrew, which is illegal. I'm pretty sure, further, that it's a *federal-level* illegal, as it's federally illegal to sell alcohol from producers not licensed by the TTB.

Here in CA we have our homebrew festival, which is a members-only event for people who have joined the California Homebrewers Association. Because it's members-only, and there are no tickets sold, even though it's $50/year to obtain a CHA membership, it's not technically selling homebrew. That's how we can get around the legal issue.

However, I don't think any homebrewers in CA are pouring at commercial beer festivals where tickets are sold. If they are, it's illegal.

This is happening in Illinois as well. The Peoria Beer festival was sent notice that Home brew was not to be served.

We also got "shut down" at the Jaycees beer festival in Springfield, IL. Looks like this is spreading from the Wisconsin fiasco to other states great.......

http://www.ratebeer.com/forums/no-more-homebrew-at-illinois-beer-festivals_196088.htm

bwarbiany said:

I believe this is, as other people point out, legally equivalent to somebody buying a ticket to an event to drink homebrew, which is illegal. I'm pretty sure, further, that it's a *federal-level* illegal, as it's federally illegal to sell alcohol from producers not licensed by the TTB.

Here in CA we have our homebrew festival, which is a members-only event for people who have joined the California Homebrewers Association. Because it's members-only, and there are no tickets sold, even though it's $50/year to obtain a CHA membership, it's not technically selling homebrew. That's how we can get around the legal issue.

However, I don't think any homebrewers in CA are pouring at commercial beer festivals where tickets are sold. If they are, it's illegal.

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I did/do!! So does my homebrew club You can read about it here..https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/pinnacle-my-homebrewing-experience-269499/

When I poured last year I asked the festival organizers and they checked with the ABC. The festival organizer gave me a green light. I think there are some key points to observe though. First off we are not compensated in any way. I know some guys had to buy their own festival ticket so that they could pour their own donated homebrew. This festival does not sell drink tickets, and we don't collect drink tickets. So there can't be any "quasi" exchange of funds. All proceeds from the festival go to a recognized 501c charity. Take a look at the CA law regarding homebrewing...http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/pages/government-affairs/statutes/california
It says specifically that "Any beer manufactured pursuant to this section may be removed from the premises where manufactured for use in competition at organized affairs, exhibitions or competitions, including homemakers' contests, tastings, or judgings."
The festival we pour at has two competitions. One is a Best Beer as judged by some homebrewers, BJCP judges, pro brewers, etc.... The other one is a People's Choice award that everyone in attendance gets to judge. The way I read this, and apparently others do to, is that I can pour samples for an organized event as long as there is some sort of competition element. The law does NOT specify who can be a judge or how many judges there can be.

Removed

Well now, it's been 7 months and there's finally some movement on this issue.

http://www.stltoday.com/entertainme...d-5adc-8e21-8e073fc4d19c.html?oCampaign=email

FIRST REGULAR SESSION
SENATE BILL NO. 114
97TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY
INTRODUCED BY SENATOR SCHMITT.
Pre-filed January 7, 2013, and ordered printed.
TERRY L. SPIELER, Secretary.
0175S.01I
AN ACT
To repeal section 311.055, RSMo, and to enact in lieu thereof one new section relating
to intoxicating liquor manufactured for personal or family use.
Be it enacted by the General Assembly of the State of Missouri, as follows:

Section A. Section 311.055, RSMo, is repealed and one new section
enacted in lieu thereof, to be known as section 311.055, to read as follows:

311.055. 1. No person at least twenty-one years of age shall be required
2 to obtain a license to manufacture intoxicating liquor, as defined in section
3 311.020, for personal or family use. The aggregate amount of intoxicating liquor
4 manufactured per household shall not exceed two hundred gallons per calendar
5 year if there are two or more persons over the age of twenty-one years in such
6 household, or one hundred gallons per calendar year if there is only one person
7 over the age of twenty-one years in such household. Any intoxicating liquor
8 manufactured under this section may not be offered for sale.
9 2. Beer brewed under this section may be removed from the
10 premises where brewed for personal or family use, including use at
11 organized affairs, exhibitions, or competitions, such as home brewer
12 contests, tastings, or judging. The use may occur off licensed retail
13 premises, on any premises under a temporary retail license issued
14 under sections 311.218, 311,482, 311.485, 311.486, or 311.487, or on any
15 tax exempt organization's licensed premises as described in section
16 311.090.

Where are the problems? I wonder what a temporary retail license is?

By the way I didn't connect the dots but I work out with the St. Louis excise commissioner. I just always call him Bob and I just didn't realize until later on that he was the one on the gov side of the issue. We had a good conversation over the issue and afterwards I totally saw his point. I would rather not discuss our conversation but he was in no way doing it as a money grab or a power thing or anything like that. He is really a great guy.

Wubears71,

I see your point. That does not change the original intent of the festival that the attendees where paying for the experience and the glass and that all brewed beer was provided at no charge to those purchasing tickets. Some how it got misconstrued into what is now is.

Hopefully this can be worked out. I never thought it was a power grab though. It's just someone raining on our parade.

wubears71 said:

By the way I didn't connect the dots but I work out with the St. Louis excise commissioner. I just always call him Bob and I just didn't realize until later on that he was the one on the gov side of the issue. We had a good conversation over the issue and afterwards I totally saw his point. I would rather not discuss our conversation but he was in no way doing it as a money grab or a power thing or anything like that. He is really a great guy.

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Huh? The excise commissioner was not doing it as a money grab thing? So the tax man was not doing it to bring in the tax on alcohol? Unless the US use the word excise for something different to NZ (where it is a tax) I would think it to be more dodgy that this guy was doing for not a monetary reason!

Shouldn't he be only concerned with if things are getting tax correctly (and in this case they were not)?

Well, the governor finally signed SB121 today making it legal for Missourians to bring their home brew out of their houses! Woo hoo! There will be homebrew at this year's St Louis Brewer's Heritage Festival!!!!



http://governor.mo.gov/actions/