Is 188" Sq enough?? (Steam related)

I know the last thing the boards need, is another steam experiment by me. I just can't resist.

The answer is.......Yes. So, 188" Sq equals the surface area of the bottom of a keg. I started out my day cleaning up the garage a little and found an old project. One that isn't going to get done period. So, I grabbed the piece of SS sheet from it and it just so happened to fit the bottom of the keggle. Sort of. Game On. I did a down and dirty job just so I could see if it was even going to work. I welded on the piece of sheet metal to the bottom and burned a couple holes for an input and an output. Welded on a couple 1/2" couplings and boom. I have a keggle with a steam fired bottom.

I wont bother with any specifics as I had to find the sweet spot to make it do what I wanted it too. I will say it isn't the most efficient way to boil with steam. My other methods use about half what this one does. Having said that, this still uses less then direct firing.

Here is a couple of pics.
This is the input. See it goes into the skirt.


This is the drain. Center of the bottom.


This just shows the piece welded to the bottom, and the little weep hole that had to be plugged.

This is a short clip of it heating up. Just showing the little bubbles all over the bottom like a pot on your stove top.

This little clip is the boil I got from it.:rockin:







Edit; No I never did finish the clean up in the garage. Damn hobbies.

I love how you just throw together something "down and dirty" and it always looks awesome and kicks a$$! Might wanna get some paint on that stand though Good work.

Yeah I agree, I would love to be able to just throw this together full stop!
Can I ask how the steam is being heated and what temp/pressure it is at?

That is very impressive, are you still using the smaller boiler or did you go back to the previous one. You are getting close to having a gas fired single heat source brewing system that is able to handle both water heating and boiling. I salute your efforts with the flash boiler and your latest steam project, the steam jacketed keggle.

"I know the last thing the boards need, is another steam experiment by me"

I disagree. Experiment away. You are inspiring, educating and entertaining brewers.

I'm new to your steam experiments, so bear with me.

What you did here is welded sheet metal to the base of your keg, put water in that cavity, and welded it shut. Then, you heated the sheet metal via direct flame? Please correct anything I have wrong.

So you say it's faster than normal direct flame but slower than your other steam method - what's the other method?

How much water is in that steam cavity?

This is a copy of a traditional steam jacketed kettle, steam is made in a flash boiler and fed into the space from the side and condensed water is taken off through the bottom connection. The other heating method used steam heated copper coils inside the kettle to raise the water to a boil. Look for GreenMonti's flash boiler threads for additional information about this heating method, and videos of it in action.

pickles said:

I love how you just throw together something "down and dirty" and it always looks awesome and kicks a$$! Might wanna get some paint on that stand though Good work.

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Thank you.
I would take your suggestions and paint the stand but.......That's my old three tier stand and it has been out in the weather since December when I tore my setup apart, cause I saw Kladue's Flash Boiler build. I had to redo my system after seeing it.

mattd2 said:

Yeah I agree, I would love to be able to just throw this together full stop!
Can I ask how the steam is being heated and what temp/pressure it is at?

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I am generating the steam via my flash boiler. My boiler is a copy of Kladue's build/design. I believe it was running at 6 PSI and the temp was about 240*. So just a hint of superheat to the steam.

Now that I know it does work. Sadly that keggle will go to the scrap heep. I had no intentions of keeping it. That's why I never bothered to cut the corners off the sheet. I just blasted it on there.

bendavanza said:

"I know the last thing the boards need, is another steam experiment by me"

I disagree. Experiment away. You are inspiring, educating and entertaining brewers.

Click to expand...

Thank You.

Prost

chs9 said:

I'm new to your steam experiments, so bear with me.

What you did here is welded sheet metal to the base of your keg, put water in that cavity, and welded it shut. Then, you heated the sheet metal via direct flame? Please correct anything I have wrong.

So you say it's faster than normal direct flame but slower than your other steam method - what's the other method?

How much water is in that steam cavity?

Click to expand...

kladue said:

This is a copy of a traditional steam jacketed kettle, steam is made in a flash boiler and fed into the space from the side and condensed water is taken off through the bottom connection. The other heating method used steam heated copper coils inside the kettle to raise the water to a boil. Look for GreenMonti's flash boiler threads for additional information about this heating method, and videos of it in action.

Click to expand...

chs9,
Kladue answered you spot on. There isn't any water trapped inside of the skirt on the keg. It is just an empty space for me too deliver steam and heat the bottom of the kettle. Also, the kettle doesn't have a burner under it.

In my first pic you see the coupling on the bottom of the keg. It has the copper pipe attached to it. That is a steam line delivering steam into the bottom skirt area of the keg. If I hadn't welded on the sheet metal it would just be blowing out all over the bottom and on my floor. The coupling with the brass fittings in it would normally be the one the the keggle/kettle is drained from.

So, as Kladue mentioned. The idea is to have one burner in the whole brewery setup. It will heat water on demand, and make steam for the mash, and to heat the keggle/kettle to boil the wort.

kladue said:

That is very impressive, are you still using the smaller boiler or did you go back to the previous one. You are getting close to having a gas fired single heat source brewing system that is able to handle both water heating and boiling. I salute your efforts with the flash boiler and your latest steam project, the steam jacketed keggle.

Click to expand...

Thank you Kladue.

I am using your boiler for this. I have thought about using the small one but, the large one ran very smooth. The olny time the large boiler gave me trouble is when I boiled with direct injection. (I don't think that ever made the boards) I also like my large boiler a lot better.

I like this method a lot cause of the fact that there will be nothing in the kettle. I plan to run it again now that I know what it needs steam wise to boil. I want to see how fast/slow it is. Once I tweaked it to the right spot last night, I went from 199* to 210* and boiling in just a couple mins. In that video I have 8 gallons in there.

Cheers

Do you think it would be possible to use a vessel like this to increase mash temperatures? I've always seen steam kettles with the jacket going up the sides but it appears that heating just the bottom works as well.

cascadia said:

Do you think it would be possible to use a vessel like this to increase mash temperatures? I've always seen steam kettles with the jacket going up the sides but it appears that heating just the bottom works as well.

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Sure, I think it would work very well. The heat applied is minimal compared to a burner. It is also limited to a temp that wont scorch. Sugar scorches at 300 degrees. My steam isn't that hot.


I only did the bottom to see if it would work. I didn't really want to bother with having to fab up the sides and what not. This makes life easy. You would get a lot more efficiency out of a vessel that had the steam going up the sides.

So I have this idea for my actual kettle. I want to weld on an extension to the bottom for more space for the steam and so condensate wont get in the way of my steam.

I happen to have this piece. It is a transition for a tail cone that goes on a jet engine. Its made of 625 Inconel.



This is the bottom of the actual kettle I want to use. You can sorta see how close the bottom is to the bottom of the skirt on this keg.


Here is the two parts together. I'll have the guys in the lathe area turn in down about .200" or so. But it will be nice and easy to weld this on and gain some space. Of course I will weld on a circle to close it off and give me a drain.



Anybody have any thoughts on this piece? Is it a waste of time? It seems to me the extra space would be a good thing for the kettle.

With the continous steam supply it is easier to heat the recirculating wort by injecting steam than try to heat the mash directly. The direct steam injection into mash with pressure cooker boiler was tried by my homebrew club back in 1995, after a couple months playing with the method we gave up and went back to infusion and decoction step mashing.

The steam kettles only have 3/4"-1" clearance for steam jacket, more space is not needed, just some slope to gather condensate in one place to drain. Another use for the ring would be inside to direct boil up center and induce flow like a percolator coffee pot.

kladue said:

The steam kettles only have 3/4"-1" clearance for steam jacket, more space is not needed, just some slope to gather condensate in one place to drain. Another use for the ring would be inside to direct boil up center and induce flow like a percolator coffee pot.

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I don't know why but I was hoping to use it. I guess cause I was lucky enough that it fit really nice.

Would it hurt me in any way to put it on?

I'm not sure how I could get the ring inside unless I trimmed the entire top? Or made it a hinged piece.

Greenmonti, you are nuts and I love every minute of it. Good luck with your experiments. They are inspiring!! Maybe someday if the planets align I can get some kegs up to you to weld on. Your work is beautiful!

jvino said:

Greenmonti, you are nuts and I love every minute of it. Good luck with your experiments. They are inspiring!! Maybe someday if the planets align I can get some kegs up to you to weld on. Your work is beautiful!

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Thank you for the kind words. If that day comes we will have a brew or two.