yeast starter without a stir plate

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thedevanzoshift

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i have been looking to make a starter for the first time, relatively new brewer here.

all the info i have seen is regarding using a stir plate and i have some questions regarding not using one.

i will be using a 1 g glass carboy. So basically i understand ill be making 1.5-2 l starter wort, cooling it down, aerating, pitching yeast a day or so prior.

However, should i be using an airlock or foil on top?

Also, the yest will settle at the bottom, should i continually swirl it up to keep it suspended? Should I do this prior to pitching? I see people stating they put it in fridge prior to pitching? These details were hazy and any help with my questions would be greatly appreciated.

thanks!
 
You don't need an airlock, foil is fine. 2 liters is about max for a 1 gallon container, so you're good there. Swirling some will help, but probably not enough to make it worth the extra effort IMO. For a 2L starter I would decant most of the spent wort off before pitching. An easy way to do this is to put the starter in the frige the night before brewday to cold crash. The cold temp will make the yeast go dormant and settle out. Pull it out on brewday a couple hours before you're ready to pitch and pour off most of the spent wort. Leave enough behind so that you can swirl and make a yeast slurry. If you don't, you won't be able to get the yeast out.
 
thanks! makes perfect sense to me now. How long before brewday would you make the starter? for instance if I was going to brew on a sunday morning, when is a good time to make the starter?
 
excellent! will be brewing next sunday so i'll whip one up next thursday after i get home from work.

thank you
 
BBL_Brewer said:
Swirling some will help, but probably not enough to make it worth the extra effort IMO.
Click to expand...

Have to say I disagree here. I've made starters all three ways--stir plate, swirl-every-time-you-walk-by, and none of the above. The difference between just pitching and letting it sit and the other two methods is huge. If anything, I think there's little additional benefit to the stir plate in terms of yeast production. The main benefit as far as I can tell is convenience, since you don't have to swirl your starter as often. But both methods produce a lot of yeast.

To put some numbers to this, if you're making a 1.065 OG ale, Mr. Malty's calculator suggests the following quantities based on how you prepare your starter:

Simple starter (no swirling, no stirplate): 2.9 liters
Starter with intermittent shaking: 1.7 liters
Starter with stirplate: 1.1 liters

So according to Mr. Malty, the efficiency gap between no-swirling and swirling is about 42%, and it's a further 34% more efficient to move from swirling to a stir plate. Bottom line, stir plate might be the best alternative, but given a choice between swirling and letting your starter just sit there on the counter, SWIRL.
 
Like Revvy said 3 days is usually enough for even a decanted starter. But the timing isn't as critical on a decanted starter and there's no need to rush it since you're not brewing till next week. If you have a yeast that's slower and stubborn to flocculate it can take at least 5 days to do it right. For a crash chilled and decanted starter it's best to let it fully ferment before chilling so that the yeast can build up their reserves (2-3 days). Then if the yeast is a slow flocculator another 2-3 days in the fridge. So it would not hurt to start it earlier in the week.
 
Starters on stirplates are also done significantly faster/sooner than with the other methods. I can get a starter (with fairly fresh yeast) to be 100% done in under 24 hours (more like 12-18 hours). With the other methods, you're looking at longer time frames for them to be finished.

I use the yeastcalc.com tool now, instead of mr.malty, due to being setup for stepped starters. That way, you can get the yeast cell count needed with a pair of small (or even three) starters (easily made in a 2L-3L flask) that would otherwise take a HUGE starter (over 20L). I'm talking about on a stirplate (for all of them) too.

I also cold crash my starters between steps, and before brew day so that I can decant the spent starter wort (don't want that crud in my all grain brew) and pitch JUST the yeast slurry.
 
BBL_Brewer said:
You don't need an airlock, foil is fine.
Click to expand...

This. But I would go further, and say DO NOT use an airlock. Airlock keeps air out. You want a little air to get in. Foil does the trick perfectly, keeping dirt out but letting in some oxygen. Without letting in oxygen, you're not getting the growth you need.

thedevanzoshift said:
thanks! makes perfect sense to me now. How long before brewday would you make the starter? for instance if I was going to brew on a sunday morning, when is a good time to make the starter?
Click to expand...

It depends on what I'm brewing, and the starter than I need. With massive starters, I'm going as far as 2 weeks ahead if I need to step it up, if I don't need to step up then several days to a week so I have time to cold crash and decant. With smaller starters (1 liter or under) I have no shame just pitching the whole thing, I'll do it maybe 2 days ahead.

jerrodm said:
Have to say I disagree here. I've made starters all three ways--stir plate, swirl-every-time-you-walk-by, and none of the above. The difference between just pitching and letting it sit and the other two methods is huge. If anything, I think there's little additional benefit to the stir plate in terms of yeast production. The main benefit as far as I can tell is convenience, since you don't have to swirl your starter as often. But both methods produce a lot of yeast.

To put some numbers to this, if you're making a 1.065 OG ale, Mr. Malty's calculator suggests the following quantities based on how you prepare your starter:

Simple starter (no swirling, no stirplate): 2.9 liters
Starter with intermittent shaking: 1.7 liters
Starter with stirplate: 1.1 liters

So according to Mr. Malty, the efficiency gap between no-swirling and swirling is about 42%, and it's a further 34% more efficient to move from swirling to a stir plate. Bottom line, stir plate might be the best alternative, but given a choice between swirling and letting your starter just sit there on the counter, SWIRL.
Click to expand...

Agree entirely. If you don't have a stirplate, then swirl swirl swirl.
 
I am convinced that shaking the heck out of the starter wort to get lots of air into it before putting the yeast in works best for me. Then I can put an airlock on the flask and swirl the liquid around three or four times a day to get the yeast into suspension.
 
I for one don't like to babysit my starters and swirl all the time, but if that's your bag then go for it. I didn't say it wouldn't help. If it were me, I would just make two starters if that's what it took to hit the numbers, but then again I can be a little lazy sometimes. :)
 
RobertRGeorge said:
I am convinced that shaking the heck out of the starter wort to get lots of air into it before putting the yeast in works best for me. Then I can put an airlock on the flask and swirl the liquid around three or four times a day to get the yeast into suspension.
Click to expand...

As already posted, airlocks are not idea for starters. You actually want gas exchange, not a one way street. Leaving the airlock in it means you're actually stunting the yeast growth, and not letting the starter needs to do.

BBL_Brewer said:
I for one don't like to babysit my starters and swirl all the time, but if that's your bag then go for it. I didn't say it wouldn't help. If it were me, I would just make two starters if that's what it took to hit the numbers, but then again I can be a little lazy sometimes. :)
Click to expand...

IMO/IME, a stirplate is the ultimate in 'lazy starters'... :D Use either a tin foil cap, or one of the foam stoppers in the flask and you have zero issues (I'm using the foam stoppers these days, great product, and damned cheap too).
 
Fair enough--as I said, the one great thing about the stirplate is that it's set and forget, which is nice. For me, I like the "pre-game" aspect of swirling the starter every time I look at it. It gets me pumped for brew day!
 
BBL_Brewer said:
Exactly, but the OP doesn't have one.
Click to expand...

With all the posts about making one, I don't see an excuse for not having one. :D Personally, I bought one since I couldn't get the magnets off of the plates they were connected to (from the hard drive). I tried making another but think I put the magnet in the wrong place, so it sucks. :drunk: At least I have my Hanna 190M that works really well with my 2L and 3L flasks. :D
 
As already posted, airlocks are not idea for starters.

I am talking about shaking the living snot out of it before putting the yeast in. For me, works every time.
 
RobertRGeorge said:
As already posted, airlocks are not idea for starters.

I am talking about shaking the living snot out of it before putting the yeast in. For me, works every time.
Click to expand...

You also posted (in the same post I quoted) Then I can put an airlock on the flask and swirl the liquid around three or four times a day

The purpose of swirling/shaking/stirplate is not [just] to get the yeast into suspension but to also degas and aerate the solution. Having the airlock means you're only allowing CO2/gas out, and nothing in.

Sanitized foil, or a foam stopper, will prevent anything bad from falling into the flask, while allowing for a gas exchange to happen. You'd be amazed (although maybe YOU wouldn't be) at how much of a difference using either of those (and with a stirplate) makes.
 
RobertRGeorge said:
As already posted, airlocks are not idea for starters.

I am talking about shaking the living snot out of it before putting the yeast in. For me, works every time.
Click to expand...

That's a step above no aeration and just sitting, and definitely above no starter at all, but still isn't as good as shaking or stir plate. And even then, you still need a bit of oxygen to get in there.

Again from Mr. Malty

5 gallons of 1.065 (assuming 1 pack of 97% viable yeast)

Simple starter- 2.59L
Simple with o2 at start- 1.94L
Intermittent shaking- 1.49L
Continuous aeration- 1.29L
Stir plate- 1L

If what you're doing works for you, by all means continue doing it. But I still think you're selling yourself a bit short that way.
 
Not to mention wasting DME. Using 100 grams of DME on a stirplate versus 259 grams on a DME for the simple starter (or even 194 grams for the O2 at start) means I can make at least two starters for your one starter. Which also means I'll be spending less on DME than you are. I also typically do two starter steps so that I can make much smaller starters to get my target cell count. With fairly fresh yeast, this means my starters are not even 1/2 the size of a single starter. For higher OG batches, a third step means I can do it with even smaller starters (on a stirplate)...

Try running the numbers on yeastcalc.com and you'll see what I'm talking about.
 

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