Beer made my mouth and throat numb

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BobbiLynn

BobbiLynn

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I found 3 topics about this and already read through them all trying to figure this out. Since it's the same thing I brew all the time, just a basic pale ale, extract, mini mash. I have deduced that it's because I put the fermentor(glass carboy), up on the top shelf of the metal shelving unit in my craft room, covered with a dark colored, low thread count sheet(same as I cover all of them). I moved it because I needed the floor space more than I needed that shelf space. The room is climate controlled for the temps I need for the ones on the floor. After I had already moved it to the floor, I thought I should have taken it's temperature on the shelf first, too late now, been all day on the floor now. But it had to be warmer up high than on the floor.

After reading through these topics, I have deduced that the higher fermenting temp, from being on a top shelf, instead of the floor in the darkest corner of the room, it produced phenols, the cause of the numbing sensation. Do you think I am correct? Now I just leave it on the floor for another week or 2 and taste it again before bottling or kegging? Right?

These are the topics here about it, all at least 2 years old:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/beer-makes-mouth-numb-166500/
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/beer-makes-my-mouth-feel-numb-161653/
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/weird-numb-sensation-after-trying-288479/
 
I am no help as I have never heard of such a phenomenon. As I think about it, I don't even know why I posted a comment. LOL
 
It's numbing from a hydrometer sample? Or a full pint? I guess I don't exactly follow what's going on.
 
I ended up drinking about 1/2 pint, but the numbing started right after the first couple sips, went away after about 30 minutes so then I tasted it again, a couple sips, mouth is numb and feels a little funny to swallow. After 1/2 pint, my lips feeling a little numb too.

Added: I didn't do any OG readings because it's my normal brew, I just go by taste and appearance.
 
BobbiLynn said:
I ended up drinking about 1/2 pint, but the numbing started right after the first couple sips, went away after about 30 minutes so then I tasted it again, a couple sips, mouth is numb and feels a little funny to swallow. After 1/2 pint, my lips feeling a little numb too.

Added: I didn't do any OG readings because it's my normal brew, I just go by taste and appearance.
Click to expand...

that sounds like an allergic reaction. Have you got anyone else to try it? That way you will know if it is the beer... or you :D
 
It's the same thing I brew all the time!! I have already ruled out an allergic reaction. The many others from the same exact kit do not make my mouth numb. I doubt I could get hubby to try it and he's the only one here. He's on chemo anyway and can't have any alcohol.
 
BobbiLynn said:
I found 3 topics about this and already read through them all trying to figure this out. Since it's the same thing I brew all the time, just a basic pale ale, extract, mini mash. I have deduced that it's because I put the fermentor(glass carboy), up on the top shelf of the metal shelving unit in my craft room, covered with a dark colored, low thread count sheet(same as I cover all of them). I moved it because I needed the floor space more than I needed that shelf space. The room is climate controlled for the temps I need for the ones on the floor. After I had already moved it to the floor, I thought I should have taken it's temperature on the shelf first, too late now, been all day on the floor now. But it had to be warmer up high than on the floor.

After reading through these topics, I have deduced that the higher fermenting temp, from being on a top shelf, instead of the floor in the darkest corner of the room, it produced phenols, the cause of the numbing sensation. Do you think I am correct? Now I just leave it on the floor for another week or 2 and taste it again before bottling or kegging? Right?

These are the topics here about it, all at least 2 years old:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/beer-makes-mouth-numb-166500/
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/beer-makes-my-mouth-feel-numb-161653/
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/weird-numb-sensation-after-trying-288479/
Click to expand...

When you have narrowed it down to exactly what the cause is, please post the recipe that caused these symptoms as I will need to use this brew on SWMBO.
 
Same thing happened to me with Penicillin. Used it for many years then one time I took it for an infected tooth I got hives and bad allergic reaction. Now I am allergic to Penicillin. Maybe this is what happened with your brew. Best solution, have someone else try it and see if it affects them.
 
id be surprised if the temp was too much warmer on the upper shelf if the whole room is temp controlled

how does it taste? i'd imagine if it was phenol related you'd easily taste it
 
sloanfamilydsm said:
When you have narrowed it down to exactly what the cause is, please post the recipe that caused these symptoms as I will need to use this brew on SWMBO.
Click to expand...

LOL, sure, and maybe I can put a carboy of water on that shelf and be able to tell you the exact fermenting temperature to used!! I have brewed at least 8 of these kits and they always turn out great. That's why I figured it had to be something to do with higher fermenting temp, on the shelf as opposed to on the floor in a dark corner, but I had it covered with a dark sheet, thought it would be okay.
 
I wish I did have someone else here to try it. If I have developed an allergic reaction to it, I'm going to be really upset.

terrapinj said:
id be surprised if the temp was too much warmer on the upper shelf if the whole room is temp controlled

how does it taste? i'd imagine if it was phenol related you'd easily taste it
Click to expand...

I actually was so taken back by the numbing sensation that I hadn't thought about the taste. Now tasted more, mouth/lips feeling numb again, not sure how to describe the taste, partially because my tongue feels numb and hard to tell. Medicinal, or kind of like a clove cigarette? Combination of these 2 things.
 
Yeast can cause chlorphenolics when the water contains chloramine and no treatment is done. Doesn't seem relevant for this situation except that phenol is the active ingredient in those throat numbing sprays you can buy over the counter.

Maybe the higher fermentation temp caused the yeast to react adversly with the chloramine causing some kind of phenol compound??

Does the brew have that medicinal taste?
 
sloanfamilydsm said:
Does the brew have that medicinal taste?
Click to expand...


Yes, and some type of acidic aftertaste on my tongue now that the numbing is going away again. Just looked up phenol taste, should have thought of that, and yes, it has that taste. My smeller doesn't work too good, so hard to tell by that.

But I don't understand how that can be then, same well water I always use, never had a problem.
 
I just realized something after looking up a few things up. The hot tub, draining the hot tub, it's close to the well. Am I overthinking this now or did I contaminate my water?
 
We need to consider the fact that just because it is an extract brew batch you have done before does not confirm that quality control was actively and closely regulated... Could be the hot tub, could be bad QC, could be developed allergy; without further information provided on recipe, secondary taster, or intensive chemical testing it's kind of hard for us to help you!

How about a recipe to start? Don't get upset and think that we are calling you incompetent! We're all here to help and to learn :)
 
Like the other posts I'd say put that beer in the corner and see if age will help. Start your next batch and sulfite the water first if there is concern of chlorine or chloramine.
 
Recipe:
3.5 lb, 2-row malt
1 lb crystal 40L malt
5 lb extra pale ale extract
bittering hops: 1 oz German Northern Brewer
flavor/aroma hops: 1 oz... it just says "Cluster"

I am a beginner so forgive me if I did not post recipe correctly.
 
It seems extremely likely to me that you have indeed found some contaminant in either your water source or from QC in the extract derivative. I would be careful about the amount you consume until you figure out the exact issue or the problem subsides over time. Certainly being on a top shelf is not the issue unless you have a 50 ft ceiling :).

Unfortunately sometimes you just have to forgo a batch for unknown contamination or terrible flavor profiles.

But best of luck and I look forward to knowing how it turns out :)

We're rooting for you and your beer!
 
Could be chlorophenols from chlorine in your water or fusel alcohol from too high of a fermentation temp and stressed yeast. I've had both and they both cause me strange and numbing/burning mouth sensations. If it tastes like cloves and medicine it is chlorine in your water, if it tastes like taking a shot of whisky with your beer and burns all the way down it is fusels.
 
BobbiLynn said:
After reading through these topics, I have deduced that the higher fermenting temp, from being on a top shelf, instead of the floor in the darkest corner of the room, it produced phenols, the cause of the numbing sensation. Do you think I am correct?
Click to expand...

Yes and I can prove it. Take a 4 oz. pour of lager or other mild beer, then take a bottle of Chloraseptic throat spray (preferably not flavored but if it is it should still work.) Spray 6-12 pumps into the beer glass, swirl it around and taste it. I will bet it tastes similar and does the same effect or it is fusels.

You can try to age the beer out but IME when beers have to high a concentration, even if the flavor and effect fades, give me SPLITTING headaches from drinking them due to the fusel levels. My buddy can drink a them all night and feel just fine in the morning so it may be worth a try to age it out. YMMV.
 
chumpsteak said:
Could be chlorophenols from chlorine in your water or fusel alcohol from too high of a fermentation temp and stressed yeast. I've had both and they both cause me strange and numbing/burning mouth sensations. If it tastes like cloves and medicine it is chlorine in your water, if it tastes like taking a shot of whisky with your beer and burns all the way down it is fusels.
Click to expand...

It was a very dry taste, like a clove, not like whiskey.
 
Now hubby is trying to tell me that draining the hot tub, the last 4 years, 10 feet from the well could not possibly haved caused chlorine to get in our water. We even had a flood this past year, do you think it is chlorine in my water causing phenols? Tomorrow, I'll try to pick up a chlorine test kit and find someone to taste it...
 
Not taste the test kit, taste the beer! And thank you for the help and support.
 
I would imagine allergies. You can certainly be allergic to certain types of hops or grains that could cause this.
 
Emptying your hot tub that close to a water source could cause contamination, but I would think that if you took a drink of water you should get the same numbing feeling if that were the case?

Either way, maybe next time empty the tub further away from the well. It is recommended that you keep potential contaminates 100 ft. from your well head.
 
It's not allergic, I have drank some beer using the exact same recipe since this and no reaction. Never could get hubby to try it. And actually now, I have tried the batch again and the numbing sensation does not seem to be as intense. I'll taste it again in a week. But seems to be getting better already.

I did try a pool chlorine test strip, which I already had, on our water, it shows no chlorine, but I don't think those tests are too accurate, plus they are old strips. And I am going to get the hot tub moved away from the well before it is used again, it's actually empty now.

ctrlpabrewer said:
I would think that if you took a drink of water you should get the same numbing feeling if that were the case?
Click to expand...

No, because I think it may have been a reaction between the yeast and the chlorine, not the chlorine by itself.

And about the shelf verses the dark corner of the room... there is a 2 degree difference. The kits says ferment between 72-78 degrees(temp of the wort-not room temp) and on the floor the day I tested it was 77 degrees, on the shelf, which sun from a window comes in(but carboy covered with dark sheet), it was 79 degrees. Could two degree higher fermenting rate cause a reaction with a trace about of chlorine and produce phenols, I don't know.
 
That seems way too hot to me. I think the high fermentation temp probably did it because I had one batch ferment that high and it had the same taste as you've noted. It did mellow out after a couple months and didn't burn, but the taste never changed. What type of yeast was it?
 
wilsojos said:
What type of yeast was it?
Click to expand...

Just cheap dry yeast... dry ale yeast... Safale US-05- Now I see, I am using the wrong yeast for this kit, or maybe a misprint on the kit or I misunderstood fermenting temps? I just looked it up and this yeast says temps up to 74 degrees. So I have been fermenting at too high a temp all along? ... I'm such a noob.
 
I am thinking now, the first 6 batches I did from these same kits, I may have gotten the more expensive liquid yeast($7 versus a couple of bucks), but these last 2, I just got the cheap yeast with it. But the other batch doesn't have the same problem(the one on the floor in a dark corner), it was the one on the shelf that developed the taste/numbing sensation.

Thank you so much for the help figuring this out. I know most of my questions are things I should already know, and I often miss the obvious... but I am trying!!!

Brewing the same old extract kits for 4 years, just following instructions, you don't learn much that way. I look forward to learning more from this site, so happy I found it. Thanks again.
 
I've had the phenol problem and it was with a batch fermented with S-05 at high 70s temp. It's been in bottles for 6 months and hasn't gone away.
 
BridgewaterBrewer said:
I've had the phenol problem and it was with a batch fermented with S-05 at high 70s temp. It's been in bottles for 6 months and hasn't gone away.
Click to expand...

Same exact yeast, same exact temps... same problem...

Hmm... I think I may just have to dump this one, not gonna wait 6 months. I'll be brewing in the next 2 days and would be nice to free up a carboy anyway. Who thinks I should just dump it?
 
You know some people might be willing to purchase a bottle from you. I'd do anything to numb the wifes mouth and throat so she'd quit griping about my hobbies.
 
BobbiLynn said:
I invited an old drinking buddy over to fish, asked him to pick me up some beer on his way!!!
Click to expand...

Good deal for both of you. Now you have to deal with the beer you have going now:mad:

Kind of weird in a way that you have to deal with the heat and I am fighting to keep the beer warm enough. Good luck with it though
 
Varmintman said:
Good deal for both of you. Now you have to deal with the beer you have going now:mad:

Kind of weird in a way that you have to deal with the heat and I am fighting to keep the beer warm enough. Good luck with it though
Click to expand...

I just need to start making extra, instead of just the amount I plan to drink. Solve all my problems!!! :mug:
 

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