cmuench
Well-Known Member
According to Google Maps I can be in your town in 7 hours to help you with your "problem". See you soon!
Get on board with the pressurized fermentation, you'll love it!!
Closed-system pressurized fermentation technique!
- Thread starter WortMonger
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Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:
According to Google Maps I can be in your town in 7 hours to help you with your "problem". See you soon!
Get on board with the pressurized fermentation, you'll love it!!
SankePankey
Well-Known Member
I'm getting 3 cornies that all fill to about an inch or two below where the top rubber handle starts. I'd say that's about a 1/3 or a 1/2 gallon of headspace.
My 3 gal corny is my starter vessel and cropper- the whole circle of life thing.
My process is:
1) I fill it with starter wort and then pressurize it with O2 and shake shake (just easier than using the stone) and then put the spunding valve on it and let the starter absorb O2 under pressure until it starts kicking out it's own (at 2-3psi or what not).
2) Then after cold crashing, I decant in place via a dip tube that only goes down to 3 or 4" from the bottom, leaving the cake. After that I put in the full length liquid dip tube, shake, and push the cake into the primary with CO2.
3a) I can then leave the full length dip tube in and listen to my beer bubble thru the krausen for a while (it's pretty loud in a corny... ping... ping.. ping... hehe..). This is what I'll do if I have to open it up to dry hop. After I dry hop, I move my spunding valve from the corny to the sanke (cause my custom sanke has corny posts on it). Leaving the long dip tube in is just for convenience I guess.
{BTW- This is where I know I got my infection from. Ramping temperature up at the end of fermentation to aid the diacetyl rest produced condensation in the tubing (which I could see) and that was falling back into the fermenter. My beers smelled 'awesome' until right about cold crashing (so, 3 or 4 days after putting the spunding valve on) and they just gradually infected but were completely opaque cloudy. All 3 infections happened in exactly the same way. Beer was drinkable upon cold crashing, but ugly as hell and just not right..}
or alternately
3b) I put a gas dip tube in the liquid side of the corny. That way I never have to depressurize the chain, even to rack. I can push gas into the corny which pushes it into the primary and then pushes finished beer into 3 cornies! Like a gas hopscotch. Anyhoo, my 3 gal corny is sealed up tight with beautiful looking yeast that has nothing but CO2 on top of it.
Since I don't really ranch yeast yet, I do whatever at this point. Usually I will repitch yeast from the cake of the primary. What with all the plate chiller prefiltering I do, my cake yeast is quite pretty too. I only get about 1/2 to 1 vial's amount of yeast from force top cropping, which I'd have to make another starter for if I wanted to just use that. But no doubt it is prettier than the cake yeast and if I did ranch, I'd ranch that yeast instead. That yeast has less hop oils and/or dry hop matter too.
Hope that helps.
P.S. I use a fun tool for decanting my cake yeast, though.... Plastic (see thru) pancake batter dispenser. Yeah baby.
Lennie
Well-Known Member
I got up at 6AM expecting a knock on the door, where were you? Guess I'll just go to work then.
I'm doing my first pressurized ferment now in a Brewhemoth conical. I was impressed with the ferment time and like other aspects of the technique. I normally brew small batches so I wanted to try the corny this time. If that works like I think it will, I'll build another spunding valve.
How much of the beverage tube are people cutting off of their cornies to keep the trub from getting transfered to the serving keg?
cmuench
Well-Known Member
I was there at 5am. Mrs. Lennie loaded up my truck and I was on my way!! Loved the Scottish 70. Sorry I missed you.
Now back on topic...
I haven't cut any of my dip tubes. After I cold crash I run off a pint or 2, then filter to serving cornies.
It makes it a pain to get a good gravity sample though during fermentation, lots of junk in the hydrometer tube.
Lennie
Well-Known Member
I suppose you could also just bend the dip tube instead of cutting it. I'm going to guess it should be about 2" above the very bottom of the cornie to keep out of the cake. If you bend it so it pulls from the opposite side of the keg as the post, you could probably tip the keg to that side towards the end of the transfer to get the most clean beer possible without getting into much yeast. I think thats how I'm going to go here at the beginning, I hate cutting things when I'm not sure I'm going to stick with this.
Lennie
Well-Known Member
Just found out my brewers hardware order is here. Chrstmas in January! Among other things I purchased a triclamp with 1/2" barb, the smallest barb they offered. I have a question about counter-pressure filling of kegs from a conical. How do I go from 1/2" tubing to a ball lock liquid-in QD that has a 1/4" barb? This may be seeing around 30psi.
Lennie
Well-Known Member
Got my tranfer line hooked up this morning and couldn't help myself, I had to transfer some beer. So I got our bathroom scale and filled two cornies using coutnerpressure with the spunding valve as my bleeder valve. The Brewhemoth was at about 28psi and I adjusted the relief valve at about 20psi. I put some extra gas on the Brewhemoth at one point because I think draining that much volume affected the pressure. Other than shooting a little foam through the spunding valve on the first keg, things went very well. I did the transfer fairly slow, saw a few clumps of trub come through on the first keg but overall the beer was very clear. Put one keg in the fridge so it will be ready for sampling this evening. I still have a gallon or two to transfer into a third keg for bottling, will finish that up tonight and then worry about cleaning.
I was late to work and smell of beer, but it was worth it.
I was late to work and smell of beer, but it was worth it.
kpr121
Well-Known Member
Always is!
lamarguy
Well-Known Member
Hey Lamarguy, damn nice to see you back on the thread!
Lennie
Well-Known Member
I wondered if anyone noticed the label on that one keg! That Scottish is really tasty, my first time using Golden Promise and it has a very nice flavor like Maris Otter.
What are you using to filter when transferring to your cornies? I can tell that my beer has some yeast and its muddling the flavors, nothing that two weeks in the fridge won't drop but it got me thinking about filtration. I'm never satisfied.
I use a water filter with a sediment filter and counter pressure fill two cornies at the same time. I also crash cool at 31 degrees for about a week before I fill the cronies.
cmuench
Well-Known Member
Agree. I crash cool several days to a week at 36 degrees. Then counter pressure transfer through a 1 micron nominal water filter to 3 cornies 1 at a time.
Lennie
Well-Known Member
The following is a link for an adjustable relief valve with gauge for $25. It only does 0-15psi but thats a decent range for pressurized fermentation and the price is excellent. Not it doesn't include the ball lock QD.
Adjustable Pressure Relief Valve with Gauge
Adjustable Pressure Relief Valve with Gauge
you'll want a higher PSI range if you intend to carbonate at the tail end of fermentation. at room temp you'll need around 30psi
Lennie
Well-Known Member
I could live with carbonatng from my CO2 tank, timing the carbonation to the end of ferm would seem to be a little dicey anyway. You could at least purge your kegs with natural carbonation, theres plenty of that.
I would go with a polysulfone spunding valve and a liquid filled pressure gauge. This is definitely a part I would not go on the cheap.
Lennie
Well-Known Member
Yes I made one of those first, but it cost nearly $100 to put together. Just got some Grainger parts for a $50 unit that goes to 100psi (60psi gauge, no glycol). But for someone looking to try the technique on the cheap, $25 (plus shipping) is hard to beat.
My last two beers on pressure finished at 1.02. The first, a black lager and the second, a high gravity ipa at 1.07 is now at 1.02 again. This one has been in the can since 12/29 so perhaps it is still too soon. My question in general is has anyone had problems with their beer not finishing due to pressure being too high too soon?
Lennie
Well-Known Member
Mine finished right where I wanted it, I think I got 78% attenuation in fact. 70-75% is the normal range and you can affect that with recipe/mash choices. Doesn't seem like pressure would affect final gravity unless you got above 15psi and stressed the yeast. Could be you need a slightly warmer temp?
I should be between 1.015-1.017 and I've ferm'd at 70 degrees under control. I'm going to let this sit one more week to see if I can get this to finish up. I turned up the pressure last night and it went up a few pts so I'm thinking I am still fermenting. Mashed at 151 and hit 86 eff.
kpr121
Well-Known Member
I have an IIPA that I brewed on 12/29 too. 1.077 OG that has come down to 1.021 with both US05 and US04. I've never done a beer this big, but those yeasts have always seem to get to where they need to be in a hurry.
I wont be too mad it if doesnt come down more than that, its nice and tasty right now. I did have some issues with the pressure ramping up to 25 psi (QD was not engaged due to hop/trub blockage I think).
In fact I think I am going to shut off my heater and let the outside temperature cold crash the beer. I want this thing drinkable next weekend if at all possible.
I wont be too mad it if doesnt come down more than that, its nice and tasty right now. I did have some issues with the pressure ramping up to 25 psi (QD was not engaged due to hop/trub blockage I think).
In fact I think I am going to shut off my heater and let the outside temperature cold crash the beer. I want this thing drinkable next weekend if at all possible.
OP
OP
flan, how are you measuring your fermentation temperatures? Are you measuring ambient air or do you have the temperature probe strapped to your keg side wall (hopefully with an insulator to the ambient air)?
Rtd sensor in thermowell down about the middle other keg fermenter. I gave a stand up freezer converted to fermenter chamber for ales and lagers. I'm using wlp001 so I'll give it one more week at 70 and take another reading.
I recently had a Triple get stuck at 1.024 which was much too high. I had good results with the pressure ferm technique twice before with lower gravity beers so I thought I'd give it a go. I am not sure why the yeast stopped where it did. I think the power cord got kicked out and it might have gotten colder than it should. Regardless, I took some advice from a local guru and dumped plain dry champagne yeast in. It was explained to me that this yeast would not noticeably change the beer taste at this point of the process and he claimed it already had yeast nutrient included. The beer did kick in and continued a fairly slow fermentation to where it is now 1.010. The beer still tastes young but clean and I think a very drinkable beer.
My two cents.
Want to add that this time I allowed my pressure to build up to 20 PSI but have been keeping my pressure to a conservative 12 to 15 psi.
My two cents.
Want to add that this time I allowed my pressure to build up to 20 PSI but have been keeping my pressure to a conservative 12 to 15 psi.
OP
OP
Good to hear!
cmuench
Well-Known Member
flananuts said:
I'm dealing with this right now as well. My Irish finished 9 points high. But I was really aggressive on the pressure. Went to 25psi on day 3. I think it was too much for the yeast to handle.
Depressurized to 10psi, increased the temp a couple of degrees and shook the keg. We'll see if I can get em to finish.
-MG-
Well-Known Member
I've spent the last few days going over this thread and I'm struggling a lot with putting together the parts for this. I don't understand 100% what I need.
I have 2 15.5 gal Sanke's.
Is there a post that I missed that shows all the parts required to put this together. I'm not very savy to terminology like spunding valve or what is required to build one.
Sorry if I have missed this. The recent discussion looks to be more focused on corny kegs.
I have 2 15.5 gal Sanke's.
Is there a post that I missed that shows all the parts required to put this together. I'm not very savy to terminology like spunding valve or what is required to build one.
Sorry if I have missed this. The recent discussion looks to be more focused on corny kegs.
This one should be helpful:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/spunding-valve-construction-corny-keg-245337/index2.html
Partlist with pictures. It is also in this thread several times but it is getting too big to search through.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/spunding-valve-construction-corny-keg-245337/index2.html
Partlist with pictures. It is also in this thread several times but it is getting too big to search through.
Check out brewers hardware And search lamarguy in this thread. He was very helpful in putting together a rig unless you plan to use the original spear and a snake tap.
Lennie
Well-Known Member
On page 122, post 1215 I showed a link to a $25 relief valve with gauge that goes to 15psi. You won't be able to carbonate with it but you could run a pressurized fermentation. Putting together the one Lamarguy recommends will run you closer to $100. I also bought a cheaper adjustable relief valve from Grainger that goes to 100psi. You'd spend $50 putting that one together with a gauge and the right plumbing.
this is what I'm putting together. all I need to buy is the gauge, and valve. I already had the rest laying around.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/my-first-spunding-valve-231048/
Lennie
Well-Known Member
Yes I like the look and feel of this relief valve better than the McMaster Carr one although I don't know if it will have the fine control. I need to put it together and find out.
-MG-
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the help.
Where do you guys purchase your keg tap connectors? Can someone give me a direct link to a recommended version?
Where do you guys purchase your keg tap connectors? Can someone give me a direct link to a recommended version?
quick update on my recent IPA. I gave it another 4 days and it finished out where planned, at about 1.017. I ramped the pressure up to 12psi at 69-70 degrees when I was at 1.03 on 1.076 OG. I'm crashing now for transfer in about a week.
-MG-
Well-Known Member
Well I was thinking of using the original spear and just using a keg tap. It seems to me like the most economic way to accomplish this. I guess I don't understand what the benefit of that kit that is sold versus just using a snake tap and throw the spunding valve on.
Also, I see lamarguy's setup and how it works with a corny keg, what fittings do you need for the spunding for the keg tap?
Islandboy85
Well-Known Member
-MG- said:
The way I price it by the time you're done buying or building a spunding valve and getting a tap you're about the same price as the fermentation kit. The benefit I see in the kit is the recover clamp is a lot less hassle than the snap ring on the keg. Also, you can adjust the racking cane high unlike a keg dip tube. I know I know, not everyone modifies their dip tube. That's the benefit that I see.
It also has a thermowell built in which is hugely valuable for me since I temp ferment all my beers.
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