Cant get "Cider apples" but can get these!

Brewer's Friend 728
Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
BadgerBrigade

BadgerBrigade

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2011
Messages
953
Reaction score
63
Location
Monterey
Gravenstein

Macintosh

Honey Crisp

Pinova

Royal Gala

Winter Banana

Golden Delicious

Red Delicious

Newton Pippin

Winesap

Braeburn

Mutsu

Fiji

Prime Gold

Black Twig

Granny Smith

I know some of these will not do but I think a blend of some may be okay...
Does anybody have any ideas of what I want to try to blend?

I am just learning but I am thinking about Gravenstein, Winesap, pippin and black twig...

If you wanted to get a blend going what do you think would make the best blend ?
And What do you think would get close to an English cider taste?
 
Wow, you can make up a heck of a batch with a mix and match.

Gravenstein, Honey Crisp, Winesap, Braeburn, Mutsu, Black Twig
 
krackin said:
Wow, you can make up a heck of a batch with a mix and match.

Gravenstein, Honey Crisp, Winesap, Braeburn, Mutsu, Black Twig
Click to expand...

Sorry Krackin, I had a glitch and I think I was still editing when you posted...
 
krackin said:
No problem, it was me. I was going to mention that Macoun and Northern Spy would add to the mix well.
Click to expand...

I don't know much about those apples but unfortunately this is the group I have to work with... I also don't think I want to use all of them because there are a lot of really sweet dessert apples in there... I'm looking to make a blend of 2, 3 or four of these that would make the best blend to get as close as I can to an English style type of cider flavor...
 
You can do very well with these. In your case of preference you want to avoid the New Zealand types, as we know them as here, in quantity. I'd still use them myself for what I do.

Gravenstein, Macintosh, Winesap, Newtown Pippin. The Macs give a nice flavor up front but fade quickly so some may disagree with using it. IMHO it is the only thing Macs are good for. I can't give you quantities of each as that can differ due to growing conditions.
 
BadgerBrigade said:
Gravenstein

Macintosh

Honey Crisp

Pinova

Royal Gala

Winter Banana

Golden Delicious

Red Delicious

Newton Pippin

Winesap

Braeburn

Mutsu

Fiji

Prime Gold

Black Twig

Granny Smith

I know some of these will not do but I think a blend of some may be okay...
Does anybody have any ideas of what I want to try to blend?

I am just learning but I am thinking about Gravenstein, Winesap, pippin and black twig...

If you wanted to get a blend going what do you think would make the best blend ?
And What do you think would get close to an English cider taste?
Click to expand...

What size batch are trying to make do you like more sweet or dry...tart?...I like a blend of Fiji granny Smith and winesap...

Allthough...braeburn, honeycrisp, black twig is nice maybe little granny Smith for a lil tart smother flavor
 
Maybe it would be better to start with what not to use. I would say to leave out Pinova Royal Gala Winter Banana Golden Delicious Red Delicious. Although these will work in cider they are pr'ly not in the realm of English cider.
 
krackin said:
Maybe it would be better to start with what not to use. I would say to leave out Pinova Royal Gala Winter Banana Golden Delicious Red Delicious. Although these will work in cider they are pr'ly not in the realm of English cider.
Click to expand...

Nice, Process of illumination would work good too :)
 
Are all of these available from local orchards? I guess what I'm getting at would be to find local orchards, visit them, chat it up and find out what they use in their blends. Describe to them what characteristics you are looking for in what you want to produce. Buy apples from each of the orchards based on their recommendations of what you said you liked and make some test batches. If their recommendations don't work, or you didn't like the guy/gal...then you know you can't buy from him/her.

I'd also look into what is most prevalent in your growing area. If one particular variety does better than others and is suitable to cider...then that would be the one I chose if it made a good end product. This way you will have a reliable source for your base and then you can blend with others that might be hard to get from year to year. (Plus you could market the product as "MONTEREY GROWN" or "Such&Such County Apples" or hell, you could create an apple region like Sonoma is for grapes. (It could happen ;) ) - make your own style...not necessarily English Cider...if you like that style use it as an example.

In my opinion, if you are going commercial you really need to make sure you can get the bulk of your recipe at a decent price every year. I typically look at things from a conservative business aspect I guess. It's one thing to make a batch this year with X, T and Z apples...but if you can't get them next year, you are looking at reformulating all the time.

Just my 2¢.
 
Pickled_Pepper said:
Are all of these available from local orchards? I guess what I'm getting at would be to find local orchards, visit them, chat it up and find out what they use in their blends. Describe to them what characteristics you are looking for in what you want to produce. Buy apples from each of the orchards based on their recommendations of what you said you liked and make some test batches. If their recommendations don't work, or you didn't like the guy/gal...then you know you can't buy from him/her.

I'd also look into what is most prevalent in your growing area. If one particular variety does better than others and is suitable to cider...then that would be the one I chose if it made a good end product. This way you will have a reliable source for your base and then you can blend with others that might be hard to get from year to year. (Plus you could market the product as "MONTEREY GROWN" or "Such&Such County Apples" or hell, you could create an apple region like Sonoma is for grapes. (It could happen ;) ) - make your own style...not necessarily English Cider...if you like that style use it as an example.

In my opinion, if you are going commercial you really need to make sure you can get the bulk of your recipe at a decent price every year. I typically look at things from a conservative business aspect I guess. It's one thing to make a batch this year with X, T and Z apples...but if you can't get them next year, you are looking at reformulating all the time.

Just my 2¢.
Click to expand...

You 2¢ is worth 2,000,000 bud, I can get all of these apples from the same orchard and I am building a good relationship with the owner so I think I would be set with all of the apples listed.
So now all I need to do is refine a juice... But with all these apples there are a million different combinations... I like the process of elimination style that Krackin mentioned...
If you had to pick a few of these varieties to blend what would they be?


Side note:
Someone said straight Pippin makes a really good cider, do you agree?
 
Honestly, I'm a drinker...not a real blender. I'll ferment just about any apple juice I can get my hands on. If it works within my methods, I'll have a batch I really like, if it doesn't, I'll still choke it down. ;) Most of my ciders don't age more than a couple months, so I don't really work with tart juice...other than some crabapples this year. Sweet apples (for me) turn out a nice cider in less than a month...but I guess it all depends on the methods you use and what you like.

I haven't seen a lot of pippins grown here in Georgia. They could be grown here, but I haven't seen them.
 
BB, no combination of those apples will give you and English style cider.

Instead, focus on making a unique CA cider. Maybe start fermenting of single varietal test batches with a range of apples to see what characteristics are lost or emphasized based on your local growing conditions. Don't force their fruit to suit what you want to do. Instead, let the fruit guide your palate, and build on your experience from test batches to make a nice balanced cider.

I've had several Newtown Pippin single varietal ciders and only one that I though was good. Personally, I think the buzz around this apple is overrated.

That being said, I don't believe in 'cider' and 'non-cider' apples. In the right hands, any apple can make good cider when used properly.
 
BadgerBrigade said:
Gravenstein

Macintosh

Honey Crisp

Pinova

Royal Gala

Winter Banana

Golden Delicious

Red Delicious

Newton Pippin

Winesap

Braeburn

Mutsu

Fiji

Prime Gold

Black Twig

Granny Smith

I know some of these will not do but I think a blend of some may be okay...
Does anybody have any ideas of what I want to try to blend?

I am just learning but I am thinking about Gravenstein, Winesap, pippin and black twig...

If you wanted to get a blend going what do you think would make the best blend ?
And What do you think would get close to an English cider taste?
Click to expand...

Winesap, Macintosh, Honey Crisp, Granny Smith, Braeburn.

Those would be my blend, and in the ratio I listed (largest ammount to smallest ammount). There are several varietys I don't recognize on the list, so the ones I picked are from a New England cider makers perspective! :)
 
I’m not familiar with all these types, but am with some. Being from Minnesota we have a good selection of cold hearty varieties like a few you listed: Honey Crisp, McIntosh, and Winesap. The Winesaps and McIntosh are good for blending into cider without much planning. I have found ways to make pretty good ciders with Honey Crisps blended at over 50% of the must with other varieties like Haralson, but it is definitely not an English style dry cider by any means.

There are some others you listed that many may consider cider apples when blended. The Red and Golden Delicious are fragrant when used in cider. The Newton pippin is heirloom cider apple that is said to be fragrant and tart, I've never even seen one though. The Granny Smith is of course tart and will produce juice like little else when pressed. The Grannies tend to be used as a base in my ciders because of their low cost and productiveness when pressed.

I’ve not had good luck with Braeburn, Fuji or Gala. They might work if you blend them with other varieties to properly compliment them.

If you were to make an English style dry cider from the apples you listed, I would use Granny smith, McIntosh, and Newton Pippins. But I have no idea about some of these other varieties.
 
krackin said:
Maybe it would be better to start with what not to use. I would say to leave out Pinova Royal Gala Winter Banana Golden Delicious Red Delicious. Although these will work in cider they are pr'ly not in the realm of English cider.
Click to expand...

No winter banana? Someone told me this is really good in a blend because of the aroma... Have you ever used this? And was the result negative?
 
LeBreton said:
BB, no combination of those apples will give you and English style cider.

Instead, focus on making a unique CA cider. Maybe start fermenting of single varietal test batches with a range of apples to see what characteristics are lost or emphasized based on your local growing conditions. Don't force their fruit to suit what you want to do. Instead, let the fruit guide your palate, and build on your experience from test batches to make a nice balanced cider.

I've had several Newtown Pippin single varietal ciders and only one that I though was good. Personally, I think the buzz around this apple is overrated.

That being said, I don't believe in 'cider' and 'non-cider' apples. In the right hands, any apple can make good cider when used properly.
Click to expand...

Okay, first I will try a test batch of the varieties by themselves....
I was already planning on doing this with the pippin but I will try a few of the others as well.

Before I read this I was thinking during my single batches I was planing on a few blends just for s**ts and giggles of 40% Pippin, 40% Winesap, 20% Winter banana?
Or 40% Pippen, 40% Winesap, 10% winter banana, 10% Gravenstein?
And maybe also throwing in a few crabapples!?!
OOH, QUICK, SOMEONE GRAB ME AND SHAKE ME.... IM GOING CIDER CrAzY... Lol
:)
 
WilliamSlayer said:
Winesap, Macintosh, Honey Crisp, Granny Smith, Braeburn.

so the ones I picked are from a New England cider makers perspective! :)
Click to expand...

Probably a good perspective... I will add this to my journal...
 
BadgerBrigade said:
No winter banana? Someone told me this is really good in a blend because of the aroma... Have you ever used this? And was the result negative?
Click to expand...

Well by golly, let's include it. I have no problem with it but I was thinking it was wandering astray of the original objective, but then again there is no problem there either. I'm really quite envious of this problem at the moment.
 
Ok, not going to be English style i guess but with all these great minds I'm sure I will come up with something crisp and dry :mug:
Keep going guys.... Anyone else?
Your 2 cents is worth millions!
 
I'm finding the same descriptions. I've seen it called "Mammoth Black Twig" and then this description:

Black Limbertwig - A spicy and aromatic variety, prized for fresh eating, cider and apple butter. Ripens October. Weeping form. Noted at a 1914 Georgia Horticultural Society meeting as disease resistant.
 
Black twig:

Black Twig, an old Tennessee variety with a dark burgundy skin, was Andrew Jackson's favorite apple. It was introduced about 1830 as a seedling on the farm of Major Rankin Toole near Fayetteville, Tennessee. It became one of the popular dessert varieties in the 19th and early 20th century in Central Virginia orchards. It is not ripe until October, has a very crisp flesh that is both sweet and tart, and it gets better the longer you keep it--if cared for properly--almost until Spring.

Fruit:
Fruit large to medium with green to yellow skin, flushed red. Flesh yellow, very firm. The ultimate in a tart apple. Tannic juice adds kick to sweet or hard cider.

Bloom Time:
Mid Season

Bloom Color:
White

Pollination:
Diploid - Requires another variety to pollinate

Fruit Ripening Time:
Late Season, October (South Central PA)

Rootstocks: EMLA26, Dwarf, Mature Height 10-12ft.
Tree Characteristics:
The tree growth is dense and drooping.
Exposure: Full Sun
Comments: A great cider apple, also an excellent eating apple.

:mug:
 

Similar threads

Chalkyt
Opinions on eating apples for cider
Replies
7
Views
760
Fixerman
F
Chalkyt
Where to find data on Apples
Replies
4
Views
896
Kees
Kees
Chalkyt
Apple Blend Recommendations
Replies
9
Views
1K
Kees
Kees
S
What apples or apple blends make the best cider?
Replies
5
Views
1K
Raptor99
Raptor99
P
First batch using a 'family recipe' from the ages - Wondering if I have problems
Replies
13
Views
955
JAReeves
JAReeves

Latest posts

Back
Top