IPA recipe thoughts plz!

I am searching to make a great IPA and always seem to get a really grassy almost dirty flavor in mine. I tried a few SMaSH batches and have come to the conclusion it is from the Centennial hops. I also taste this in Stone IPA and Founders Centennial IPA, I do not dislike the flavor entirely, I just want to minimize it but still keep that awesome aroma and flavor from the Centennial. I have also really scaled back my bittering charge and stepped up the late additions. Would you mind taking a look and telling me what you think?

Test Batch 1 (IPA)
American IPA
Type: All Grain Date: 1/15/2013
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal Brewer: Copper TrÖff Brewing
Boil Size: 8.01 gal Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: My AG Setup
End of Boil Volume 6.76 gal Brewhouse Efficiency: 65.00 %
Final Bottling Volume: 5.25 gal Est Mash Efficiency 76.8 %
Fermentation: My Aging Profile Taste Rating(out of 50): 30.0
Taste Notes:
Ingredients

Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
12 lbs Pale Ale Malt 2-Row (Briess) (3.5 SRM) Grain 1 73.8 %
3 lbs Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) Grain 2 18.5 %
12.0 oz Munich 10L (Briess) (10.0 SRM) Grain 3 4.6 %
8.0 oz Carapils 6-Row (Briess) (1.3 SRM) Grain 4 3.1 %
1.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 38.4 IBUs
1.00 oz Cascade/Centennial/Simcoe Blend [7.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 6 7.5 IBUs
1.00 oz Cascade/Centennial/Simcoe Blend [10.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 7 5.5 IBUs
1.00 oz Cascade/Centennial/Simcoe Blend [14.10 %] - Aroma Steep 0.0 min Hop 8 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg California Ale (White Labs #WLP001) [35.49 ml] Yeast 9 -
1.00 oz Cascade [7.50 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 10 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Simcoe [14.10 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 11 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Simcoe [14.10 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 12 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 13 0.0 IBUs
Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.070 SG Measured Original Gravity: 1.046 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.014 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.010 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 7.3 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 4.7 %
Bitterness: 51.3 IBUs Calories: 151.6 kcal/12oz
Est Color: 6.5 SRM
Mash Profile

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge Total Grain Weight: 16 lbs 4.0 oz
Sparge Water: 4.88 gal Grain Temperature: 72.0 F
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F Tun Temperature: 72.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: FALSE Mash PH: 5.20
Mash Steps
Name Description Step Temperature Step Time
Mash In Add 20.31 qt of water at 163.7 F 152.0 F 60 min
Sparge Step: Batch sparge with 2 steps (0.88gal, 4.00gal) of 168.0 F water
Mash Notes: Simple single infusion mash for use with most modern well modified grains (about 95% of the time).
Carbonation and Storage

Carbonation Type: Bottle Volumes of CO2: 2.3
Pressure/Weight: 4.12 oz Carbonation Used: Bottle with 4.12 oz Corn Sugar
Keg/Bottling Temperature: 70.0 F Age for: 7.00 days
Fermentation: My Aging Profile Storage Temperature: 65.0 F
Notes

Hop blend to be equal parts Cascade, Centennial and Simcoe.
2 separate dry hop additions, each 5 days, pull the first one and replace with the 2nd one, use the Centennial batch 1st, trying to minimize grassy, dirty taste.
The 0 minute hop addition will be steeped for 20 mins and then I will whirlpool(manually) for 10 mins before cooling.

3.5 ounces seems a pretty high rate for dry hopping. That could be your grassy notes. Maybe you could shift some of those over to "first wort hops" as you run off your mash.

Also, which yeast are you using? Different strains alter hop flavor and bitterness in different ways...

Good point, usually only dry hop 2 oz. Thought I would try a 2 step dry hop this time, I will think about that for sure. Yeast is WL Cali ale.

How young are your beers when you experience the grassy flavors?

IPAs are meant to be drunk (drank?) young, but I find that all of mine really come into their own after 3 weeks bottle conditioning and another 2-3 cold conditioning. When mine are green, many or most taste pretty grassy, especially after an aggressive dry hop. Maybe you just need to give them a little more time?

Yep grassy should reduce with age, but the less you have in the first place the less you'll have to wait to age out. Whole hops will also help a little as the process that makes the pellets breaks apart the plant so more chlorophyl gets into your beer.
WL Cali ale shouldn't be the culprit if you pitch rate, aeration and fermentation temperatures are good. I find that attention in these areas prevents that "green beer" taste. My beers are usually ready to drink once they're carbed up ever since I focused on aerating with pure oxygen...

Ok, all good points, I am now thinking I am going to have to swap the Cascade, didn't realize that I am out, poor record keeping! Anyway, I think I will swap it with CTZ and go the dank route instead, thoughts?

Demus said:

3.5 ounces seems a pretty high rate for dry hopping.

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it's indeed high but not crazy. there are plenty of super-hoppy beers that call for 4 oz of dry hops or more. i'm currently drinking a batch that was dry-hopped with 5 oz of mosaic it's aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawesome.

sweetcell said:

it's indeed high but not crazy. there are plenty of super-hoppy beers that call for 4 oz of dry hops or more. i'm currently drinking a batch that was dry-hopped with 5 oz of mosaic it's aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawesome.

Click to expand...

How's the mosaic? I haven't tried it yet...

Demus said:

How's the mosaic? I haven't tried it yet...

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really really good. check out this thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/heads-up-hop-heads-mosaic-hbc-369-freshops-365897/

sweetcell said:

really really good. check out this thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/heads-up-hop-heads-mosaic-hbc-369-freshops-365897/

Click to expand...

Did you get them fresh? I was reading about that in "For the love of Hops" and it sounds like an annual treat. Who has them dried? Any online stores?

Grantman1 said:

How young are your beers when you experience the grassy flavors?

IPAs are meant to be drunk (drank?) young, but I find that all of mine really come into their own after 3 weeks bottle conditioning and another 2-3 cold conditioning. When mine are green, many or most taste pretty grassy, especially after an aggressive dry hop. Maybe you just need to give them a little more time?

Click to expand...

drunk

ipa is the one style i have basically zero experience, so i am right now doing a bunch of 1gal SMASH brews to get a feel for a bunch of hops. reading the discussion in threads like this helps a lot too!

3.5 oz dry hop is not far off the mark but it's a little heavy.
Stone brewmaster Mitch Steele is the dude who wrote the new book on IPA and says he likes up to 1 pound per barrell for dry hops. That's around 0.5 oz. Per Gallon.

You can see it here;
http://beersmith.com/blog/2012/11/13/brewing-india-pale-ale-ipas-with-mitch-steele/

ddrrseio said:

drunk

ipa is the one style i have basically zero experience, so i am right now doing a bunch of 1gal SMASH brews to get a feel for a bunch of hops. reading the discussion in threads like this helps a lot too!

Click to expand...

Experience is key with IPA's. Hop schedules, dry hopping, first wort hopping, whole cones, pellets, fresh hops, scores of varieties, on and on. There seem to be as many techniques as there are brewers! There are some "general rules", but perhaps more than any other ingredient the use of hops require more art than science... :fro:

Everyone so far has focused on your dry hopping, which I think looks fine. I was concerned with the 3lbs of flaked wheat. Typically, in recipes I see more like 1 lb of wheat malt and/or 1lb of flaked wheat. Instead of 3lbs of flaked would you consider 2lbs of Wheat Malt and 1lb of Flaked Wheat. I know the lagunitas lil summin summin Wheat IPA has 4lbs Wheat Malt and 1 lbs flaked wheat in a 5g batch.

Demus said:

Did you get them fresh? I was reading about that in "For the love of Hops" and it sounds like an annual treat. Who has them dried? Any online stores?

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i have pellets from farmhousebrewingsupply. i believe that freshhops has flowers. see the thread i linked to previously for more details.

ChadChaney said:

I am searching to make a great IPA and always seem to get a really grassy almost dirty flavor in mine. I tried a few SMaSH batches and have come to the conclusion it is from the Centennial hops. I also taste this in Stone IPA and Founders Centennial IPA, I do not dislike the flavor entirely, I just want to minimize it but still keep that awesome aroma and flavor from the Centennial. I have also really scaled back my bittering charge and stepped up the late additions. Would you mind taking a look and telling me what you think?

Click to expand...

Back to the original post, I think you may have already discovered the issue. There are literally thousands of compounds in different hops and at different levels. The trouble with recipes and IBU calculations is that everyone's palate is different. Sounds to me like you are just sensitive to something in Centennial hops. The simple solutions is don't use Centennial. Luckily there are tons of other great varieties available these days. If you must use Centennial try it at different times in the brew, or maybe as a first wort hop. Whatever compound you pick up may not be prevalent when added at a different time...