Belgian Pale Ale La Chouffe

I've been working this beer clone for a couple of years now. In side by side tests with the original I find theirs is drier and has a tang to it that mine hasn't. I think theirs may come from a larger addition of sugar. Most people prefer mine to the original. Something to be said for fresh beer.

16 lbs lager malt
1.1 lbs white syrup

1 oz Spalt or Perle in the boil
.5 Hallertau at 30
3/4 oz Saaz at 5

.4 oz crushed coriander seed at the end of the boil

This beer should be fermented at a high temperature. Living in a temperate part of the world I often have to resort to a brew belt to up the temp.

This is a favorite of mine and one I try to keep on tap as a standard. It is fine to drink young and is usually good after just a week or so in the keg.

It changes over time, dries out and becomes more like an aperitif. An uncomplicated recipe that produces a beer of great complexity.

Mash temp?

What's white syrup? Which lager malt do you use? This sounds perfect since I live in South FL, it's around 75 in my apartment.

I went with my usual mash schedule of 130 for 15, 150 for 30 and 160 for 15. I'm now leaving the temp close to 160 as I sparge. To make this drier mash at 150 for 45 minutes.

I'm from Canada so I'm using a malt from Saskatchewan called Prairie Malt. You could use Belgian malt but I'm not sure it is worth the price difference.

There has been a lot of discussion about what type of sugars Belgian brewers are using in their beers. Rock candi is not what they are using any longer. They are using simple cane sugars. The syrups I've decided to use are from my grocery store. I buy either Rogers or Crown 500 ml bottles (about 1.1 lbs). There are three varieties to choose from Golden dark syrup, Golden (lighter) and white. The white is pure white so keeps the beer from having any added colour. La Chouffe is a very pale beer.

75 is a great temperature for this yeast. I read recently that a well known brewery using a similar yeast has had their temps go as high as the 90s and the beer was still good. Good luck with it.

jbrookeiv said:

Mash temp?

What's white syrup? Which lager malt do you use? This sounds perfect since I live in South FL, it's around 75 in my apartment.

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Do you think Safbrew T58 would work for this? Want to order from Farmhouse Brewing, they have Pilsner grain on sale.

Also, when do you add the syrup?

I've never used safBrew so I can't comment on it but I have used Wyeast and White Labs extensively and they are both good.

Syrup is added at the beginning of the boil. If you have a local homebrew supply store I'd go with them if possible, for yeast and grains. Not only do you support local business but you can forego the costly freight charges, especially on grain.

jbrookeiv said:

Also, when do you add the syrup?

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GordonT said:

I've been working this beer clone for a couple of years now. In side by side tests with the original I find theirs is drier and has a tang to it that mine hasn't. I think theirs may come from a larger addition of sugar. Most people prefer mine to the original. Something to be said for fresh beer.
.

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If I may add to this and give you some ideas to try if you want
FG is too high - try it closer to FG 1.08 - 1.012
Bump up the IBU`s
Styrian and Saaz, and coriander

A 1.5L starter is needed to produce a cleaner flavor.
Primary for 14 days as that yeast needs some time to clean up.


<Mash Temps >
62 ºC = 143.6 ºF >>20min
68 ºC = 154.4 ºF >>70min

Ferment around 75-77ºF,
the brewery goes up to > 26 ºC = 78.8 ºF ,but I and others have a hardtime at that temp as the yeast tries to takeoff along with producing too many fusels. They say that yeast dies above 80ºF.

Belgian malt would be best and you can taste the difference, but I understand with your situation.

The Belgian brewers use beet sugar and /or syrups from places such as>
BELGOSUC SUGAR SPECIALITIES
http://www.belgosuc.be/EN/productgamma.asp

But plain cane sugar works just fine, I use beet sugar only as a `tip of the hat to the Belgian brewers. Achouffe only use pilsner malt & sugars(syrups) in all the beers.

I've visited Achouffe twice now for beer research
http://i821.photobucket.com/albums/zz138/UknowWho2u/Img_0405.jpg
http://i821.photobucket.com/albums/zz138/UknowWho2u/Img_0402.jpg
http://i821.photobucket.com/albums/zz138/UknowWho2u/Img_0401.jpg

Thanks Houblon these points will all be added to the recipe.

Unfortunately where I live only the most basic malts are available. Even Special B took me ages to find. No Styrian either so I'll have to continue with Hallertau as a substitute.

The mash schedule and increased primary length should get me closer to the drier FG of the original.

What do you think of the volume of syrup I'm adding?

'Research'! What a great idea. That's what I'll tell my wife. No dear its not a holiday at all, its Research

GordonT said:

What do you think of the volume of syrup I'm adding?

'Research'! What a great idea. That's what I'll tell my wife. No dear its not a holiday at all, its Research

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Crown or Rogers golden corn syrup? if so its glucose,glucose-frutose,water,salt,vanillin(Vanilla)


What you posted is roughly 4-6% sugar? you could go up and drop some grain, this too will get your FG down. My houblon clone is 15.7% sugar but its a lighter color beer than `la chouffe and FG is 1.006-8 everytime.


I've used another brand of cane syrup before in different beers, in the lighter beer the vanilla came thur thankfully it was a nice touch.
So thats something you may want to think about if adding more, heck you could just add plain sugar along with your normal amount.



Adjusting the sugar ratio can get tricking as it effects the body & color really fast, it took me awhile to settle on what I feel is correct (houblon copy).

So creep up on the sugar-grain ratio and if you feel the color is too lite just add it before the boil, it will darken over the 90min boil.


Research is what my wife calls it :fro: Next thing you know your taking a couple trips per yr $$$$...
But hey somebody has to do the hardwork of visiting breweries and sampling all those beer

All good information, thanks again for your input. Next time around I'll do a bit of adjustment to the recipe. I'm looking forward to brewing this again.

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How would this work for a single temp infusion. And what temp would be best to go for?

bob3000 said:

How would this work for a single temp infusion. And what temp would be best to go for?

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It would work just fine for a single temp infusion as most malts these days are well modified already. I suggest 148F for an hour.

This will give you a high alcohol beer with some body. If you add very much sugar the beer will be thinner and eventually, as the sugar % rises, will start to have a disagreeable 'tang' to it.

(Insert plug for my recipe here)

The main difference between a completely true to style recipe for La Chouffe and mine is right in these details. My recipe results in a softer beer with more mouth feel.

My suggestion FWIW is to raise the temp to 158 after the first half hour (easy to do by simply adding small amounts of boiling water) and add less sugar. I would add a pound at most. This method is not completely true to style but gives you a beer with better mouth feel and without the disagreeable tang.

Ok, I like the Idea of raising the temp just using boiling water. Does this recipe work in a 5gal mash tun I'm worried i might run out of space, especially if I'm adding extra water to raise the temp.
Also what's the target IBU. I was thinking of going for around 25. Do you think that would over power the maltiness?

Just drank a big La chouffe blonde. Really looking forward to brewing this one.

Hi Guys, here's my first ever post:

I've been interested in brewing La Chouffe and as yet have not tried this beer, so first things first, I should buy a bottle and try it. I am wondering how this Belgian Blonde Ale differes from that of Duvel which is a BSG Ale of course.

I have brewed Duvel and I think some of the processes could well be worth sharing with you who are brewing La Chouffe ? so here is a run down of a few things I've picked up from one or two other HB'ers who brew Duvel regularly, I hope it may be of some use.

Firstly I'm not suggesting that brewing a Belgian Blonde is the same as brewing a BSG Ale.

DUVEL: 26 Litres.
Weyermann Pils 6.0 kg ( I could not get Dingermans)
Acidulated Malt 40 gms (for what its worth, I could have used more)
Dextrose 1.5 kgs
Styrian Goldings @ 60 mins 26 gms
Styrian Goldings @ 30 mins 26 gms
Czech Saaz gas off 14 gms
Irish Moss
Wyeast 1388 3.0 L. Stir plate.

OG (virtual) 1.072
FG 1.002
SRM 3.6
IBUs 31
Alc 9.3 %

I mashed overnight from 11 pm until 6 am for a very attenuative wort.

Primary began at 18 C for 4 days then raised slowly over two days to 21 C.
OG was (virtual 1.072) Once the gravity was at 1.038 I added the sugar as 1.5 kgs in two litres of boiled water, cooled which raised the primay a little more to around 23 C.
Primary activity then incresed with a visible krausen.

Temp was slowly increased further over the next 4 days to 27 C and kept there for the next week untill SG 1.006. I then allowed it to cool somewhat without paying too much attention to the actual temp.
After a total of three weeks in primary the FG was measured at 1.002 and I left it for another week before racking.

I could not fit the entire volume all in the carboy so I bottled a half dozen stubbies which took 3 weeks to fully carbonate, meanwhile the full carboy went into lagering at 1 degree C for 3 1/2 weeks before bottling with 200 gms of dextrose and a small amount of S-23 dried yeast. This is a lot of priming sugar and was suggested to me for best producing the classic Rocky Head of Duvel.

Currently the entire batch has been bottled and is still conditioning, but all 6 stubbies have been consumed It tasted sooooo good, that I could not leave 'em hanging around. I'm happy so far with the amount of esters present and the beer does not taste of fusels to my palette. The bottles, once fully conditioned will then go back at 1 degree C for three weeks to clear. I'm convinced they will be even better than the original 6.

Basically most of the pils malt wort was fermented at lower temps for cleaness, then the sugar was allowed to ferment warm for ester production along with what remained of the wort.
The FG ended up a few points lower than expected so the Alc % ended up a tad high at 9.3 % after priming.

The temp regime seems a little complex but in reality is pretty basic. Furthermore I doubt whether the next batch will receive the same exact treatment but will be very similar.
Cheers, sorry for the long first post, I'll try and keep them short from now on (famous last words) .
Paul.

La Couffe is a bit spicier. Maybe a bit less attenuated.

Unfortunately, mine at this moment is neather of these things as i buggered it right up. It ended up with a wierd, fruity, malty rocket fuel taste. I'll give it a few months in the bottle and see what happens.

But I'll definately be trying this one again once i get my high grav technique sorted.

GordonT said:

Thanks Houblon these points will all be added to the recipe.

Unfortunately where I live only the most basic malts are available. Even Special B took me ages to find. No Styrian either so I'll have to continue with Hallertau as a substitute.

The mash schedule and increased primary length should get me closer to the drier FG of the original.

What do you think of the volume of syrup I'm adding?

'Research'! What a great idea. That's what I'll tell my wife. No dear its not a holiday at all, its Research

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Gordon, I can get Styrian Goldings here at the moment but can't get Perle which I've been after for some time.
Could do you a straight swap for a couple of 100 gm vac bags if you want ? No problem to post to Aussie, I'm just across the ditch in Hamilton. just give me a shout or PM me.
Cheers.
Paul.

Officianardo said:

Gordon, I can get Styrian Goldings here at the moment but can't get Perle which I've been after for some time.
Could do you a straight swap for a couple of 100 gm vac bags if you want ? No problem to post to Aussie, I'm just across the ditch in Hamilton. just give me a shout or PM me.
Cheers.
Paul.

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Done! I'll PM you with my address. You can do the same if you like or email me. Are you concerned at all about no refrigeration for the time it takes in transit?

bob3000 said:

Ok, I like the Idea of raising the temp just using boiling water. Does this recipe work in a 5gal mash tun I'm worried i might run out of space, especially if I'm adding extra water to raise the temp.
Also what's the target IBU. I was thinking of going for around 25. Do you think that would over power the maltiness?

Just drank a big La chouffe blonde. Really looking forward to brewing this one.

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I use a converted cooler so have lots of room unless I'm making a Barley Wine. Adding boiling water will not take a lot more space up.

My recipe calls for 1 oz Spalt/Perle at 60 and .5 Hallertau at 30. Not sure what that would work out to but the bitterness is fine. If you bumped this up to 1.5 Perle you would have a slightly more bitter beer if you like what this adds to the complexity.

bob3000 said:

La Couffe is a bit spicier. Maybe a bit less attenuated.

Unfortunately, mine at this moment is neather of these things as i buggered it right up. It ended up with a wierd, fruity, malty rocket fuel taste. I'll give it a few months in the bottle and see what happens.

But I'll definately be trying this one again once i get my high grav technique sorted.

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Sorry to hear this. Hope your next try is the best.

Hi Gordon, PM and email sent to you. No reply so far. Am I missing something ?
Cheers.
Paul.

Officianardo said:

Hi Gordon, PM and email sent to you. No reply so far. Am I missing something ?
Cheers.
Paul.

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I haven't received anything from you Paul. I mean no PM or email.. Please try [email protected]

Brewing this one as my New Year's beer! Got the starter going last night and got that airlock blooping away pretty well.

Using german Perle, german Hallertau, and willamette valley Saaz hops. I'm dialing back the pils to 13lbs and upping sugar to 1.5 lbs for a slightly less alcoholic, drier beer.

Anything I need to do to guarantee a nice headfoam? Decoct a little bit of it or anything like that?

BenjaminBier said:

Brewing this one as my New Year's beer! Got the starter going last night and got that airlock blooping away pretty well.

Using german Perle, german Hallertau, and willamette valley Saaz hops. I'm dialing back the pils to 13lbs and upping sugar to 1.5 lbs for a slightly less alcoholic, drier beer.

Anything I need to do to guarantee a nice headfoam? Decoct a little bit of it or anything like that?

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All sounds good Benjamin. The head on this beer has always poured nicely for me. If you're concerned about that you could easily add a pound or so of wheat next time.

Let us know how it turns out please.

As it turns out, I'm making the recipe exactly as the original was posted! Same grain bill and mash temps. Just about to add the sugar

Will let you know!

Nice recipe Gordon! It drinks really easy and yes, I did start nipping out of the keg after the first week. At 3 weeks in the keg it's already drying out quite nicely, showing off the hallertau character. The coriander in the aroma is really nice, my wife's comment was that it smells just like Hoegaarden. Thumbs up!

BenjaminBier said:

Nice recipe Gordon! It drinks really easy and yes, I did start nipping out of the keg after the first week. At 3 weeks in the keg it's already drying out quite nicely, showing off the hallertau character. The coriander in the aroma is really nice, my wife's comment was that it smells just like Hoegaarden. Thumbs up!

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Nice head on that beer Benjamin. Glad you enjoyed it. Portland, Oregon? We're almost neighbours...

Yep - Portland, Oregon! Great place for beers. I noted what you said about the temperate region affecting the brew, so I used a heating pad on it to keep it around 70 to finish out. It had stalled at one point when it dropped to mid 50s in the house but started right up again.

Yesterday was a redo of this recipe. I changed two things, mashed at a lower temp throughout (`1046 - 1050) and have not added sugar yet. I'll make a slurry and add that when the head begins to drop.

I let it go overnight and had a big beautiful white head on a gorgeous orange body this morning. Put the brew belt on and in a couple of hours needed to replace the airlock with a blow off hose.

This yeast is awesome, it creates some powerful fruit aromas the first few days. It seems like after a few days the blow-off dies down completely, but then the pressure change of adding an airlock whips the yeast back into a gooey froth. I've been using the original yeast for several generations in other brews and I always have to keep a close eye on it else it completely fills the airlock.

Looks awesome, going to give this one a try. Thanks for the recipe!

bchurch said:

Looks awesome, going to give this one a try. Thanks for the recipe!

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Have fun with it and let us know how it turns out

Alright in the works to brew this next weekend hopefully. What volume of co2 did you carb this to?

bchurch said:

Alright in the works to brew this next weekend hopefully. What volume of co2 did you carb this to?

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This beer is highly carbonated so if I'm bottling I would use about 3/4 cup sugar or equivalent. In the keg push it up to between 2.5 and 3.5.

Its not the law though, its Beer Tao. Carbonate at whatever level you like. It will still be awesome.

Ok, so I decided to brew tonight but made some adjustments to my own personal curiosity, I went with 14 lbs. Pilsner malt. 2 lbs homemade inverted sugar and .5 lb Munich malt. I am going to use wyeast 3522 and underpitch a bit to stress the yeast. Thanks again for the jump off point! I will post back in a few months if anyone wants to know.

Gordon,
So I'm planning on doing this in two days. I'm making my starter tonight. So which mash temp/time and boil time did you find worked best and when do you recommend adding the sugar? I'm going with your original recipe......16 lb Pilsner, etc. and regular cane sugar. Thanks in advance.

ndinh said:

Gordon,
So I'm planning on doing this in two days. I'm making my starter tonight. So which mash temp/time and boil time did you find worked best and when do you recommend adding the sugar? I'm going with your original recipe......16 lb Pilsner, etc. and regular cane sugar. Thanks in advance.

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This should have a low FG and part of that comes from mashing low and long. I've settled into a 146F mash for roughly 1.5 hours. I boil until I reach 6 gallons which is usually 1.5 hours. Sugar is added into primary just as the head begins to drop. This is a great recipe, hope it turns out well for you.

Thanks for the inspiration Gordon, best beer yet, the guys at my club loved it and with multiple certified judges they are a tough group!

bchurch said:

Thanks for the inspiration Gordon, best beer yet, the guys at my club loved it and with multiple certified judges they are a tough group!

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Then that's saying something for the recipe and your skill as a brewer. Glad it came out well. Prost!

Gordon,
Another question if you don't mind. Do recommend lagering at 32F after 2 weeks (as in Houblon's recipe) or should I just let it sit at room temp for secondary? Thanks.