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vasie

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I am new at homebrewing and am interested in what the big advantages are to using an all-grain brewing process? Is the beer that much better than extract brewing?

I am looking for ways to really get my per bottle cost down. In my research, I see that the cost of the input grains are less expesive than the extracts, but does it require that I put together one of those three tiered systems that I have seen posted in forum pictures? If so, how long does it take to recuperate the cost of purchasing all of the extra equiptment? (I am guestimating that the cost per bottle is about 30-35 cents. Is that close?)
 
Vasie, when I got going on brewing, I was happy at how cheap it seemed. Someone here mentioned to me that to think I was going to save money homebrewing was just silly. There's always more bottles, bigger equipment, better equipment, some new grain, etc to buy.

In your position, I would master brewing from extract kits first, before plunging into all grain. It's nice to limit the problems and get good at the whole process before adding in mashing and sparging and all that stuff.

Can you brew for 35 cents a bottle? Probably. But you never ever actually will. :fro:
 
Sasquatch said:
Vasie, when I got going on brewing, I was happy at how cheap it seemed. Someone here mentioned to me that to think I was going to save money homebrewing was just silly. There's always more bottles, bigger equipment, better equipment, some new grain, etc to buy.

In your position, I would master brewing from extract kits first, before plunging into all grain. It's nice to limit the problems and get good at the whole process before adding in mashing and sparging and all that stuff.

Can you brew for 35 cents a bottle? Probably. But you never ever actually will. :fro:

So horrible true. I always justify my big purchases on calculating how many pennies I'll save per bottle.

But when its all said an done, I never actually calculated the thousands I spent getting to where I'm at now. On the flip side, I'm very satisfied with the money I invested into this hobby. If I cared too much about the almighty $$$ then I would stock pile Milwakees Best (a.k.a. The Beast)... And no one wins in those situations
 
Hmmm.... don't know... but just with ingrediants... how in the world do you just spend 35 cents a bottle? Trying to figure it out .... think its too late.
 
Beer brewed all-grain is definitely that much better than extract.

And the process is much more fun and rewarding. You are involved and have control over many more aspects of the process.

If your primary reason for homebrewing is to save money, you'll probably be frustrated in that goal. At least that's what I've seen. You end up spending money on lots of things once you go AG if you get into it.
 
It depends whether you want to spend more time brewing and have kit that costs a bit more and takes space.

It's like most hobbies the more invovled you get the more rewarding it gets.
The good thing is you are actually making good beer from cheaper ingriedients. It is far eaisier and less time consuming to extract brew. You have to plan time and ingredients etc when AG brewing.

I did around 10 extract brews before doing my first AG.
 
As has been mentioned, don't go AG if your only purpose is to cut costs. IMHO, the only reasons should be your love of the process and the pursuit of better beer. You can make great beer with extract, but you'll never have the level of control over the process as you would with AG.

Concerning equipment, the only things I purchased in addition to what I had for extract brewing was: another 5 gal pot, a 5 gal igloo cooler, conversion kit, bits and pieces for the manifold, and a large spoon to stir the mash. So all in all, around 100$ for additional equipment.
 
I think the best cost justification argument for home-brewing or all grain brewing is not based on a per bottle price, but a comparison price. You can't get much cheaper per unit than the big american companies. Therefore you have to try to say, "well, I make better beer than them". Therefore, compare your per unit cost to something equivalent, e.g. Sam Adams, and realize you're making equivalent or better beer for less than $1 or so a bottle.

Oh, and for AG vs. Extract, I chose AG because it gives you more control over various flavors, body, etc. that extract can't. Also, AG makes me feel like a monk or something and extract made me feel like I was cooking. I also like the additional experimentation that AG offers.
 
Cost? My lhbs loves to see me coming! I've never walked out of there for less than $150. It doesn't help that I'm a gadget freak.
 
the biggest or most expensive item in all grain is the kettle, and possibly the propane burner you should (but dont have) to get. after that you will save money, especially if you use dry extract which is really expensive. Liquid is cheaper but i like dry better (its paler, and easier to work with). i spend about 40 bucks on partial mash, and 25 bucks on all grain. grain is cheap as hell, so are hops, the yeast is the most expensive thing, but once you learn to cultivate it, you dont have to buy it. you can make a zap-tap lauter tun with free food-grade buckets you can get at the supermarket. Just mash in your kettle and your good to go.

all-grain, or even partial mash is way better than extract beer i think...
 
Nobody has mentioned the three tier set-up yet.

Absolutely, you do need one, but it doesn't have to be elaborate.

My top tier is a footstool on the kitchen counter.
My middle tier is a chair.
My bottom tier is the floor.

A dedicated system would be easier to work with, and would save some lifting, but it still works reasonably well, and takes no storage space.

-a.
 
I did only 2 all extract brews before adding specialty grain, and it was only a couple of those before I was doing partial mashes. All I needed to make the jump to all-grain completely was the mash tun and a turkey fryer. I built the mash tun from a 5 gallon igloo cooler, and the turkey fryer came with a pot big enough to use for all-grain. Do you need a thee tier system? No. Will I probably eventually get one, yes. And as far as the cost per bottle for ingredients, I bought the ingredients for my next batch for a total of around $18. About 10.5 lbs of grain, A pack of hops, and a vial of yeast.

$18 ÷ 50 bottles = $0.36 per bottle.

Now I did have some hops already in the fridge, but I also have some other strains of yeast saved from other batches in the fridge also. Those batches where I don't have to buy yeast will definately be cheaper.
 
Janx said:
Beer brewed all-grain is definitely that much better than extract.

And the process is much more fun and rewarding. You are involved and have control over many more aspects of the process.

If your primary reason for homebrewing is to save money, you'll probably be frustrated in that goal. At least that's what I've seen. You end up spending money on lots of things once you go AG if you get into it.

Very well put. :mug:
 
I agree that you should not just leap into AG from extract but of course there is a happy middle point of course which is partial mash. Roughly half grain and half extract. Three tier systems are great but you can make your own "ghetto brewery" three tier system to steal a term from Dude hope you don't mind. A couple of Rubbermaid cooler or rectagular coolers some copper tubbing or pvc tubing and plumbing fittings and a lot of trial and error. This is a good site to get plumbing fittings cheap the only problem is you have to get the o rings in bulk.

http://www.mcmaster.com/
Good Luck and keep posting.
davy
 
Everyone has brought up some great points!
From my perspective I would suggest trying some extract recipes first and see how you like home brewing. I've introduced a couple people to home brewing and after one batch they lost interest. Just wasn't something they wanted to do. If extract brewing isn't all that much fun for you, you will hate AG.
Another idea is to find a Home Brew club near you and maybe you could watch and assist someone to get an idea of what our hobby is like.
Myself? I brewed about 3 batches of extract and then jumped in with both feet to AG. It's in my personality. I love to have as much control over things as I can.
 
I brew beer because I enjoy it, not because I want to save money. Yes, AG brewing is cheaper, once you get past the initial investment of equipment, but I doubt that for 35 cents per bottle you'll get anything better than a BMC clone.
 
Sasquatch said:
... I would master brewing from extract kits first, before plunging into all grain. It's nice to limit the problems and get good at the whole process before adding in mashing and sparging and all that stuff....
Well, put; I couldn't agree more!:mug: I went extract, then steeps, then partial mashes for eight years before going AG last July, '05. I'm not suggesting anyone wait that long! I love AG and, at times, wish I'd switched over sooner. But I'm glad I took my time and waited until I was ready - on my own terms.

IMHO, it's not about saving Money, but enjoying Quality. And having fun!:D
 
Let's see.. For Brown Rye, about 6-7% abv: 6# pale @ .79, 4# specialty at $1.59, 2oz Hops= $2.50, one package dry yeast @ 1.50, Tap water, $0, re-use yeast, $0. Household Chlorine, $0. Caps, $.02 ea, comes to $17 for 50 bottles, 34 cents/ bottle.

Some swap meet "kit" $20, had thermometer, hydrometer, 6 gal bucket, bottle rinser, plugs, bubblers. Bottling bucket (pickles, from restaurant dumpster) $0 fittings from auto parts store, $5. My old cooler for mashing $0, transfer mash to
bottling bucket for sparging. False bottom, perforated SS from friend, $0. Burner from a wall furnace, $0. Glass carboy from swap meet,$5. My old home made SS bean pot, 7 gallons, $0. Bench capper, swap meet, $5. Vinyl hose, Home Depot, $5. 200 bottles from dumpsters, $0. $40 for equipment to get started AG.

Reloading beer bottles is lots cheaper than reloading ammo... but I do hit my target better in .308...my 12 oz groups get lots of flyers...
 
You use a pickle bucket for a bottling bucket?!?!? I thought that smell NEVER came out of plastic...

Or is "pickle" the house flavor? :D
 
Thanks a lot for everyones input.. I think that I will refine my skills at bit more with extract or partial mash brewing, but I do look forward to getting into AG. I definitely have some more reading to do.. Thanks again..
 
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