Attempting 40%+ ABV beer... "Barley Brandy"

jeepinjeepin said:

At 15%+ is oxidation really that much of a problem?

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No.. Especially since I have another 40-50 gravity points to go. If the yeast kicks up it'll use that oxygen up. If the yeast doesn't kick up, the beer is ruined anyway and oxidation is the least of my worries.

Cape Brewing said:

1200. Its down to 1075 so a little over 17% abv

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Oooff...already at 17%...you may have to resort to turbo yeast/distillers yeast. You should get most of the flavor profile from what you've already fermented anyway...

Cape Brewing said:

If the yeast doesn't kick up, the beer is ruined anyway and oxidation is the least of my worries.

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Why would you say that? If the beer stalls at 17% or 18%, **** it, go ahead and freeze-concentrate it. If you can remove a third or half of the water, you're going to effectively dry it out anyway since alcohol's going to represent a higher percent of the remainder.

It could be good, too... boozy, but a little sweet. Instead of a beer-whiskey, it's a beer-liquour. **** it, don't give up on it.

Sugar percentage goes up with the alcohol as the water goes bye bye. It would probably seem sweeter.

Its sweet now but, believe it or not, its not horribly sweet. I really want it dried out a bit more.

Oh, and Bird, its not like I'm gonna toss it.

Not that familiar with high gravity liquor / beer - good to know oxidation isn't as much a factor. Any after dinner cordial is still a success in my book on the first time out. If the flavor is good, I think freeze concentrating a portion (not all) might make for a great liquor.

I had a breakfast fantasy where I was drizzling some over pecan pie!

Cool thread. Looking forward to hearing about the final product.

has the gravity dropped any more yet if not i would try distilers yeast

You're about a dozen posts behind

makomachine said:

I had a breakfast fantasy where I was drizzling some over pecan pie!

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Fruity

must of missed that post sorry

We'll all pull through

bottlebomber said:

Fruity

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Cold fusion

Cape Brewing said:

You're about a dozen posts behind

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Beano?

jeepinjeepin said:

beano?

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+1

motobrewer said:

+1

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'twas a joke.

jeepinjeepin said:

'twas a joke.

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which is why I +1'd...

first time, eh?

You two should make out or somethin'.


Turbo yeast ordered through Runnnnn Forrrrest!! (He must be sick of that joke).

My local, almost local, and I think my not so local LHBS stock turbo yeast. Surely nobody in my area distills?

After this finally dries out for you, how long will you let it sit before moving on to the freeze concentration part?

any updates?

I think personally that you should make a couple batches of 60 shilling, and blend half of this into each batch halfway through its fermentation. Maybe it'll come down, and you can have some good strong scotch ale. Maybe give a another shot later

I have been super lazy with it given my frustration levels. It is just sitting patiently for me to rack it and pitch the distillers yeast. Second fermenter is clean and just sitting there.

I have some time today and have to rack another beer so I'll probably do them both and just get it over with.

I don't think the strong scotch idea is a bad one but... we'll see. I have this distiller's yeast as the last resort and then I'll make a call.

I'm guessing the distillers yeast wasnt succesful?

Nope... it is dead stuck at just under 1080 and it don't wanna move one iota. It is at about 17% ABV and it sucks somethin' fierce cause if you can ignore the super sweetness, it tastes amazing.

the beano idea has come up a few times and I've completely dismissed it each time because I refuse to believe there aren't any more fermentables there given the mash schedule I used but as someone (Da Bird) was pointing out two days ago... it can't HURT... so... I might actually try that just for the hell of it.

We'll see.

It kills me to walk by that fermenter too... it tastes great, it just HAS to dry out a bit more.

maybe pull out 1 gallon into a glass jug, and try beano in just that gallon?

How many gallons did you dedicate to this?

Yeah, that was suggested... and it's a good idea... at the same time though, if it doesn't work, I am completely out of ideas anyway and am gonna have to have someone dump it for me as I won't be able to bring myself to do it.

I was thinking about trying to freeze concentrate a portion of it anyway, just for giggles but I'm not sure I want to go through the hassle with that either if it isn't going to dry out a bit more.

I have about 6 1/2 - 7 gallons in a fermenter

just admit it, you don't wanna use amylase because you're afraid it will work.

Saw this guide while searching Keller's site. Not sure if you tried some of the high end yeasts.

http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/strains.asp

Maybe try Premier Curvee or Lav 43?

Cape Brewing said:

Yeah, that was suggested... and it's a good idea... at the same time though, if it doesn't work, I am completely out of ideas anyway and am gonna have to have someone dump it for me as I won't be able to bring myself to do it.

I was thinking about trying to freeze concentrate a portion of it anyway, just for giggles but I'm not sure I want to go through the hassle with that either if it isn't going to dry out a bit more.

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you could always water it down to a 10g batch or 12%abv to make it less sweet instead of dumping it

Have you thought about splitting it into smaller batches, using like a wine or champagne yeast to dry out a small portion then kill the yeast and mix it back to the original to your desired taste?

Cape Brewing said:

Yeah, that was suggested... and it's a good idea... at the same time though, if it doesn't work, I am completely out of ideas anyway and am gonna have to have someone dump it for me as I won't be able to bring myself to do it.

I was thinking about trying to freeze concentrate a portion of it anyway, just for giggles but I'm not sure I want to go through the hassle with that either if it isn't going to dry out a bit more.

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Did you try making an actively fermenting starter with the super high gravity yeast? Aerating the beer adding some yeast nutrients, and then add that to it?

The reason just pitching more yeast doesn't work is because there's no more oxygen, there's no more nutrients, so it just won't take off.

Also did you try adding a tablespoon of boiled bread yeast to it? It absorbs the toxins produced by the yeast in a high stress environment.

When I did my Utopias clone I got it down to 1.022 by doing the above mentioned things.

Yup, yup, yes, yes, yup, yes

Tried all of it.

Did you try peeing in it?

Cape Brewing said:

Yup, yup, yes, yes, yup, yes

Tried all of it.

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except, of course, the most obvious solution.

I think if there is another attempt at this you should go about it a different way. I believe the osmotic stress on the yeast is so great that it will not work at the level of alcohol combined with the osmotic stress. So along the lines of DFH and the 120min IPA you could do a 40% barley brandy much the same way. Instead of dextrose you can use malt extract that get dissolved into the beer or a malt syrup from a boiled down recipe of your own. So you could go with say a 5gal batch of something at 1.120 and then boil a 10 gal 1.120 batch down to 1.240. That will give you an average blended gravity of around 1.180 and if fermented down to 1.030 that gives you just over 20%abv. So you could incrementally feed the unfermented 1.240 beer or a beer boiled down even further to the fermenting beer each day to keep the fermentation going with WLP099. Theoretically it should work. This will reduce the osmotic shock on the yeast and should introduce a little O2 each time you add the new serving wort. This will give you 10gal of 20% beer which should reduce down nicely through freeze concentration.

I'm just thinking out loud here. I don't know if that's realistic or not. I am thinking about doing it though but I don't see it happening. The other thing that could possibly help could be doing this in a conical and using the racking arm to inject CO2 or O2 to keep the yeast in suspension.

motobrewer said:

except, of course, the most obvious solution.

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It's in my bag right now.. so shut the hell up.