So here's a brand new %*^@-up for you...

The SWMBO wants a blueberry beer so I says... "sweet... you wanna Blueberry beer, you're makin' it". So, I ran her through the whole process. I showed her how to load a recipe up into BeerTools Pro... explained what all of the variables meant (SRM, IBUs, OG, etc.). She conditioned the grains. I fired up the rig... and away she went.

(I have a 45 gal "semi-automated" herms system. It is all "flip a switch" to turn on pumps and solenoids)

So... single infusion.... she dumps the grains in... pumps in the correct temp and gallons... boom, hits the strike temp dead on. She circs through the herms heat-ex to keep temp. Perfect. 75 minutes at 151 on the button.

Ok... let's run off and then spahdge (we're from Boston). She spahdges... bada bing bada boom, hittin' temps left and right... run off into the boil kettle... WHAMMO... bout a gallon over on final volumn. No prob... we'll boil an extra 30 minutes.

Boiling away a crystal clear runoff since it has been running through the grain bed for 75 minutes... all of the hop additions are dead on. A lb of honey for the hell of it.... irish moss... boom boom boom... like freakin' clock work.

Ok... time to chill.

her: "How do I do that?"
me: "Hook up the hose to the plate chiller, turn it on, and flip these two switches. Know what? I'll just do it quick... no real 'learning' behind that and I'll take care of it for you."

Yeah...

so...

Her PERFECT beer that she had made the entire day?? Yeah... I've made a TON of batches on my rig and while my rotund buddy PTN will make fun of me, I've only had a real mechanical breakdown once... on my first batch... so this has NEVER happened before.

I flipped the wrong switch and instead of pumping through the plate chiller... I pumped the entire batch back into the mash tun that was still full of grain.

DOH!!!!!!

NO good. So... LUCKILY... I'm looking at the mash tun temp and the wort was chilled enough that it only brought the mash temp up to about 165.

I ran off completely into the boil kettle again and boiled for about 10-15 just to re-sanitize. Then I chilled AGAIN and ran it off into the fermenter.

So!!! Whatta ya think of THAT F-up?? I'm trying to figure out what is gonna be wrong with the beer and I haven't come up with anything.

The "Re-mash" wasn't hot enough to pull tannins or anything like that I don't think. Maybe some DMS due to the short "re-boil"??? I'm not going to have the same hop profile since I had a 0 minute addition that got cycled through a freakin' grain bed and boiled for ten minutes.

Any theories on what is gonna be f-d up about the final product?

Have Tom Brady stick his tongue in it, then it should be fine.


.

now now... this isn't the football trash talk thread.

Besides, I would use a small piece of his flowing locks instead.

tom brady t-bag, lol.

i think it should be fine, but what do i know.

i'm more interested in how you did the blueberry - extract, or? what was the base, a wheat?

She's going to dry-berry.

Adding a yet-to-be-determined amount of fresh (if we can get them) or frozen blueberries to the secondary.

bah. do blueberry extract, because that's what i'm interested in.

I was going to go extract but then decided I didn't want it to suck so we're going real blueberries.

FOCUS... Stay on topic!!

What's gonna be wrong with the beer after my f-up?

The only thing I can think of, that you didn't reference (i.e. messed up hop additions), is the additional proteins that the irish moss would have helped remove are now back in.

Why the ****'d you put a flameout hop addition on a blueberry ale? You really think blueberries and hops are two great tastes that taste great together? You probably saved your ass from a ****ty beer.

EDIT: Did you vorlauf after pumping back into the mash tun? Might have picked up a few stray grain particles... maybe some food for your buggies.

Cape Brewing said:

I was going to go extract but then decided I didn't want it to suck so we're going real blueberries.

FOCUS... Stay on topic!!

What's gonna be wrong with the beer after my f-up?

Click to expand...

Might as well go with em frozen. One of the favorite ways to deal with the fruit is to freeze em for a few days and then thaw and smash and throw em in. No boiling/heating requires as long as you have primary fermentation done. This is a real typical fruit wine/mead way to do it and I have seen it done by a lot of brewers.


What's gonna be hosed in your beer? Maybe hop utilization as you already noted. Late addition aroma will be mostly lost I would think (not that it will matter since most of the time you want the berry aroma to show through so most don't use the aroma hops at all).

You re-mixed with the sludge so you might mix it up with the originally left-behind "thin runoff" and get some tannins?

I dunno, just guessing at this point. Only thing you're sure to get is an unrepeatable recipe!

Mischief_Brewing said:

The only thing I can think of, that you didn't reference (i.e. messed up hop additions), is the additional proteins that the irish moss would have helped remove are now back in.

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Yeah... maybe. Not too worried though. I very rarely use irishmoss anyway. My overall process tends to give me some pretty clear beers anyway so i rarely bother with irishmoss. This batch might obviously be a lot different.


And Bird... just a little Sorachi at flameout. Nothing significant at all. And Sarachi is really fruity... like you.

motobrewer said:

bah. do blueberry extract, because that's what i'm interested in.

Click to expand...

I currently have a light ale extract beer in secondary, I am going to add Blueberry extract (4oz) to the bottling bucket for the 5 gal batch. I will let you know how it turns out.

Cape Brewing said:

I was going to go extract but then decided I didn't want it to suck so we're going real blueberries.

Click to expand...

If you are a kegger, be careful with the seeds that are left behind. They tend to clog things severely... don't ask me how I know (fresh raspberries in my case).

Blueberry seeds are nearly invisible... I use blueberries all the time. 6 lbs of smooshed up frozen in secondary for 5 gallons.

I actually made a blueberry wheat for a wedding a few months back. Used a blueberry juice concentrate, tiny little bottle (like $10 at the natural foods store) that makes us some number of gallons of BB juice. But, no sugar. Just added it right to the keg, didn't even ferment it (no sugar). First few pints were weird - deep purple color, like... like, the color of a little girl's bedroom, and kind of odd tasting. But, as it's settled in it's actually become really good - a very subtle undercurrent, not in-your-face at all. Actually a pretty good beer, IMHO. You don't drink it and go "oh, blueberry!," but if you know it's there you notice it.

Base beer was internationally boring as ****.

Weird, though, is that the color is back to just being a little reddish, it's not a vibrant purple anymore. Not sure WTH happened.

EDIT: Just pulled a pint. I take it back, you can tell it's blueberry... but it's still nice. Not artificial-tasting or too sweet or anything. Works really well with the wheat.

Screw the blueberries. Focus people! Problems associated with washing a 90-minute boiled wort through a grain bed... With the grain bed only hitting about 165ish during the screw up. Lets keep an eye on the prize here.

One additional tidbit... After all saud and done I short-armed the OG 1.052 vs 1.056. No way of really telling if the screw up was to blame or if I wpuld have short-armed it otherwise

Cape Brewing said:

Screw the blueberries. Focus people! Problems associated with washing a 90-minute boiled wort through a grain bed... With the grain bed only hitting about 165ish during the screw up. Lets keep an eye on the prize here.

Click to expand...

Who cares? That's what you get for "automating" your system. Can't **** up like that with an Xtreme cooler and a keggle. Got what you deserved!

Honestly, though, I can't think of much of anything that would be a problem. Mash hadn't been sitting out long enough to go sour. You probably picked up a few stray grain particles, so maybe you won't be quite so clear. You re-boiled to sanitize. You might lose out on a little hop aroma that wasn't really necessary to begin with.

I've ****ed beers up much more than this.

yeah dude, use extract. that's the best way to go.

It'll be fine. I'm more curious why the blueberries. Not buying the whole Mrs. Cape thing. Same excuse PTN uses in the lingere store. Honestly, it's for my missus...uh huh...sure it is Becoming quite the dandy, Cape

Oh thats crap. Here I am... Experiencing a unique, actually... Groundbreaking, "did I ruin my beer" moment and I get this kind of taunting!?!

It's uncalled for.

The crack about PTN in lingerie? Sure. Makes sense. I can see that. But to attack me?? Nope. Dont like it one bit.

Welp... If nuthin else it'll be interesting to see if there are any noticible off-flavors. And if so, i can then pass this knowledge on to other brewers. See? I'm HELPING here. I am helping push our collective knowledge forward... So remember, once you are done boiling, do NOT then run your wort thrpugh the grain bed one more time.

See? Helping. I'm helpful.

you're gonna f**k it all up with whole berries anyway, so nobody will be able to tell.

You know if you ferment whole raspberries, you can't rack "off" them because they float? And they've got the consistency of boogers when you get one in your glass?

EDIT: Kind of like that old "Orbitz" soda I used to drink in high school. You know, I just googled "soda with boogers in it" and that's what came up.

Cape Brewing said:

Oh thats crap. Here I am... Experiencing a unique, actually... Groundbreaking, "did I ruin my beer" moment and I get this kind of taunting!?!

It's uncalled for.

The crack about PTN in lingerie? Sure. Makes sense. I can see that. But to attack me?? Nope. Dont like it one bit.

Welp... If nuthin else it'll be interesting to see if there are any noticible off-flavors. And if so, i can then pass this knowledge on to other brewers. See? I'm HELPING here. I am helping push our collective knowledge forward... So remember, once you are done boiling, do NOT then run your wort thrpugh the grain bed one more time.

See? Helping. I'm helpful.

Click to expand...

So to summarize:

Attn: new all grain brewers, a post boil re-sparge is not necessary. :fro:

I'm sure a mod will make this a sticky any time now given the wealth of information offered in this thread.

Glad I could help

It's like a hop-back, but with spent grain. For that extra-malty beer.

What kind of alcohol content are you expecting to have with 100% efficiency , 1lb of honey, and the sugars from the berries?

Cape Brewing said:

Oh thats crap. Here I am... Experiencing a unique, actually... Groundbreaking, "did I ruin my beer" moment and I get this kind of taunting!?!

Click to expand...

It's only groundbreaking because you're the first weenie to ever pump boiled wort back through the mashtun. How lazy are you? By the time my boil is done the mash tun is cleaned and dried, crisis averted.

Hell, you never know. It may come out exceptionally well and unique. Look at the positive side here.

You could have probably just invented a whole new brewing technique. It will be named after you and all craft brewers will be running the wort back through the grain bed after the boil by next year.

You will become famous and rich.

Or realistically, the beer will taste fine and if your spouse asks why it has different taste you can sya it is supposed to taste like that since this is a new recipe and she wont know the difference.

I've had stuck sparges where I literally used a shovel and paint strainer on the mash and wort, back and forth between a bucket and my igloo, and the beer still turned out good. A litte re-mash and sparge wont hurt a thing!

Forget fruit extracts.... expecially berry. I always can tell the difference. Use real fruit, if you want to get out every last bit of haze, plate filter it.

The only reason that I brought up filtering is that I just got a plate filter and went nuts filtering everything I had on hand.... Mead, beer, cider. AWESOMENESS!

Cheers

Lucas

lucasszy said:

Forget fruit extracts.... expecially berry. I always can tell the difference. Use real fruit, if you want to get out every last bit of haze, plate filter it.

Click to expand...

see, i've heard the opposite, that once the yeast metabolize the fruit sugar, there isn't much flavor of the base fruit.

motobrewer said:

see, i've heard the opposite, that once the yeast metabolize the fruit sugar, there isn't much flavor of the base fruit.

Click to expand...

As long as you do not heat or over-heat the fruit to set the pectins, the debate comes down to primary vs secondary (which comes down to a somewhat religious conversation for some). I think the flavor quality of canned or extract vs fresh applies exactly to the quality you get in aroma/flavor eating them raw (although I would guess extracts will be more repeatable).

motobrewer said:

see, i've heard the opposite, that once the yeast metabolize the fruit sugar, there isn't much flavor of the base fruit.

Click to expand...

Then how do fruit wines retain their flavors? Or in that case is there just that much more fruit? On the flip side there is more yeast activity though...

Guys, guys, guys, let's stay on track.

Cape's concern is with a post boil sparge, not with the fruit. He's doing this to save humanity from it's own non post-boil sparging ways, so let's stay on topic.:cross:

I'm sure Cape would have answered, but he's busy eating his fruit filled crepes, broccoli quiche and sipping mimosas...pinky up, of course.

Hugh_Jass said:

I'm sure Cape would have answered, but he's busy eating his fruit filled crepes, broccoli quiche and sipping mimosas...pinky up, of course.

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hahaha, cape sucks.

wait, what were we talking about? fruit wine?

Hugh_Jass said:

Guys, guys, guys, let's stay on track.

Cape's concern is with a post boil sparge, not with the fruit. He's doing this to save humanity from it's own non post-boil sparging ways, so let's stay on topic.:cross:

I'm sure Cape would have answered, but he's busy eating his fruit filled crepes, broccoli quiche and sipping mimosas...pinky up, of course.

Click to expand...

I can't believe I didn't see this thread until now. I read EVERY thread in this forum, and I missed this one.

In my defense, I saw who the OP was and I assumed there was nothing of value in this thread. I was so wrong!!!!!!!!!

I'm finishing up a 60 minute boil, and my MLT is still sitting here full of grain, for the first time ever. In my defense, though, it's cold and snowing and I'd have to take my slippers off to go to the compost pile and dump it. I'm just going to wait until Bob wakes up from his nap and ask him to do it.

However, I will point out to any new brewers who are wondering, I DID disconnect the hoses from the MLT, so that there is no way I could pump wort back into it. I mean, I could spray wort all over the brewery through the disconnected hoses, which has happened before. But no way could I pump fresh wort through the MLT.

Blueberries, huh? Gross.

Yooper said:

I can't believe I didn't see this thread until now. I read EVERY thread in this forum, and I missed this one.

In my defense, I saw who the OP was and I assumed there was nothing of value in this thread. I was so wrong!!!!!!!!!

I'm finishing up a 60 minute boil, and my MLT is still sitting here full of grain, for the first time ever. In my defense, though, it's cold and snowing and I'd have to take my slippers off to go to the compost pile and dump it. I'm just going to wait until Bob wakes up from his nap and ask him to do it.

However, I will point out to any new brewers who are wondering, I DID disconnect the hoses from the MLT, so that there is no way I could pump wort back into it. I mean, I could spray wort all over the brewery through the disconnected hoses, which has happened before. But no way could I pump fresh wort through the MLT.

Blueberries, huh? Gross.

Click to expand...

Ha! Ha! You just got faced by the Yoop. n00b.

Yooper said:

I mean, I could spray wort all over the brewery through the disconnected hoses, which has happened before. But no way could I pump fresh wort through the MLT.

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Just keep your titties out of the way, m'kay?

Yooper said:

In my defense, I saw who the OP was and I assumed there was nothing of value in this thread.

Click to expand...

WHAT... THE... $%^@!?!? That's crap. A big steaming pile of crap. If there was an award for "Adding most value" on all of HBT I would come in second... only to Revvy 'cause he trolls the Beginner forum looking for opportunities to copy and paste a tome on "no bubbles doesn't mean no fermentation". A CLOSE second!!!!

Such crap!

Yooper said:

Blueberries, huh? Gross.

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Don't look at me... it ain't mah beah

the_bird said:

Just keep your titties out of the way, m'kay?

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I just choked on my beer, damn you! And it was a good oatmeal stout.

for your information, I'm not sporting a SCAR! That right, a scar! And you just make fun. Hmmph.

Of course, I will acknowledge that a brewing scar on your tit is fodder for conversation.