Saflager S-23 Usage

I ordered a 2 pre prohibition lager kits (for a total of 10 gals) from Northen Brewer and it came with 2 packages of Saflager S-23. The more I read about S-23 it sounds as though most use 2 packs for a 5 gal batch. Should I pick up 2 more packages?
Thanks

with the 11.5 g packets one is good for a 5 gallon mid range OG brew . rehydrate and pitch

I use it regularly - 1 pkt per 5 gal. I don't bother to re-hydrate anymore. I tried it both ways - it didn't make any difference. I pitch the yeast by sprinkling directly into the wort - making sure the yeast and wort are at the same temp at 74F.

I get active fermentation in 12 hours then refrigerate to 54F.

It consistently brings a 1.056 batch to 1.010 for a 6% dry pilsner style beer. I like this yeast a lot and rarely use liquid yeast any more.

Ian

I rehydrate because I have had some 04 and 05 lately that did nothing ,all it did was sink to the bottom of the bowl and sit there . Pitched another packet and poof it blossomed like its suppose to

What temp did you pitch at? - the blurb that comes with it says to only sprinkle directly if the temperature is above 20C.

Re-hydrate your dry yeast. It has plenty of merit benificial to the yeast. Search the threads for those. If nothing else it's just good practice.

To say that re-hydrating is needless is like saying a starter for liquid is needless.

Sure you "can" pitch just the vial but you know you should make the starter. And, re-hydrating takes what 10 maybe 15 minutes. More if you are actually boiling to deaerate. How much time goes into the starter?

rehydrate with boiled water cooled to 70-75° as per instructions. As I have been doing for several years I think a few packets may have been handle wrong either at the vendor or during shipping .

Thanks for all the replies. That is what is great about this board, plenty of people willing to share. Also I read of someone who just scooped out 2 cups of wort after it had cooled to about 70 F to use for rehydrating. Is there any merit to this?

Fermentis in their product PDF says you can use 10 times the weight of the yeast of either water or wort . I would just use water there has been some say that the sugar in the wort is detrimental to the yeast as it rehydrates . I have no proof on its validity. But its just one more way of contamination taking the wort out .

Two of the three leading dry yeast manufacturers say water only. They take water out of the yeast, not wort.

Although a few people have good experiences with S-23, for me and many others it's made the worst beer I've ever made. So bad I sent some to John Palmer to see if he could identify the disgusting flavor. He likened it to passion fruit wine coolers! IF you decide to use it, ferment it at 60-62 F to minimize that flavor.

Denny said:

Although a few people have good experiences with S-23, for me and many others it's made the worst beer I've ever made. So bad I sent some to John Palmer to see if he could identify the disgusting flavor. He likened it to passion fruit wine coolers! IF you decide to use it, ferment it at 60-62 F to minimize that flavor.

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Okay brother are you sure you are talking about the S-23 and not the S-33?

The suggested range for the SafLager S-23 is 9 - 15 with an ideal of 12. Ot, 48 to 59 ideal at 53.

The range you are suggestion would increase esters not reduce them. Lower temps = low esters.

Nope, I definitely mean S-23....I could NEVER forget a beer that bad! And contrary to intuition, warmer temps with that yeast actually decrease the esters. Let my experience, and that of many others, be your guide....

I agree with Denny I used this yeast at 68 with very little esters at all. The key is to let it sit on the cake for atleast 3-4 weeks before moving it to secondary and then letting it lager for a long period of time.

I did a Kolsche type recipe and split it using us-05 and s23 I found that the s 23 let the hop aroma and flavour out better then the 05 did.

When it was fermenting it had the usually lager smell of rotting eggs and sulfur. I just let it sit and over time it totally went away.

I fermented it at about 52 for a month or 2, did a d rest, then lagered for 2 years before I finally dumped it out. IIRC, it was the only batch I've ever dumped just becasue I didn't want to drink it.

Denny said:

Let my experience, and that of many others, be your guide....

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Nope. I have used the S-23 too many times and have never had this passion fruit you've created.

Maybe our techniques are different, maybe it's the brewhouse, maybe I am just lucky but I have only gotten clean, neutral fermentations at the low end of it's range from this yeast. So much so that it is my primary lager yeast for all but a few styles that require more.

Using Narziss technique, two sachets, and Oxygenation. Only on occasion have I swayed from this and not gotten the result I expected but even then, I never got passion fruit or any other significant levels of by-products unless I was fermenting too warm.

That's my personal experience with S-23 and I'll stick with what works.

Glad to know you're speaking from your experience. And I have had S-23 beers that are as you describe yours. But my own experience and that of a lot of other people differ from yours. I don't know how to account for that difference, but that doesn't make either of us wrong about our own experiences.

I have used the S23 with great success several times. In both light and dark lagers.

I actually just pitched some into a Munich Dunkel last night. I am assuming it will also be good. Odd that others are getting different results. I doubt it has anything to do with Denny's technique, the man is a pioneer. The only thing I can think of is quality control in the production of the yeast?

I do not see how the higher temps would mitigate esters.

Denny said:

Glad to know you're speaking from your experience. And I have had S-23 beers that are as you describe yours. But my own experience and that of a lot of other people differ from yours. I don't know how to account for that difference, but that doesn't make either of us wrong about our own experiences.

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Never implied that your experience is wrong. I simply suggested an explanation of a technique that has work numerous times, under various conditions.

GilaMinumBeer said:

Never implied that your experience is wrong. I simply suggested an explanation of a technique that has work numerous times, under various conditions.

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And vice versa in relation to your experience. I just wish I knew why there is such a wide variance in people's experience with it.

Ryan_PA said:

I have used the S23 with great success several times. In both light and dark lagers.

I actually just pitched some into a Munich Dunkel last night. I am assuming it will also be good. Odd that others are getting different results. I doubt it has anything to do with Denny's technique, the man is a pioneer. The only thing I can think of is quality control in the production of the yeast?

I do not see how the higher temps would mitigate esters.

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Thank for the kind words, but even a pioneer can be a dickchimp sometimes! As to the temps, all I can tell you is that many people have reported cleaner fermentations at higher temps. But obviously that isn't universally true.

Wow, that still seems weird to me. The fantastic thing about this hobby is the fact that 10 people can use the same ingredients to make the same recipe, and you get 10 different beers. There are too many small variables that make big differences, that is why notes are so freaking good to keep.

Anyway, since I know you are reading Denny, I just wanted to let you know I went back to batch sparging after over complicating my process with all kinds of silliness for the last 18 months. I do not see any need to go through the gyrations when you get the same quality in the end product. Besides, the wife nags enough about how long it takes to brew. I am re-appriciating you popularizing this method.

Thanks for all the comments. As I have no experience with this yeast it sounds like I have a 50 - 50 chance. I am already worried about my last batch not turning out and don't want 2 in a row. Denny do you use s23 much at the 60-62 temp or do you pretty much avoid using it. Logic would tell me to to ferment at ~53. Since I am doing 10 gal maybe I will do 5 and 5 and see what works for me.

Ryan, good to hear you're Cheap'n'Easy like me!

Rooster, I avoid S-23 like the plague. Although a lot of people have had experiences like mine with it, there are a lot who haven't. I think your idea to split the fermentation is a good one.