Starting Keg Conversions for a 3 Vessel E-Herms System

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I decided to repurpose the keg top cut outs as the lids for the vessels. A little poly trim around the lid tops should give a nice tight fit. Need to find something to block the dip tube holes. I used # 8-32 stainless machine screws, nuts, and lock washers, as well as stainless 1 1/4" fender washers to prevent the lids from fall throught the R/O's. Punching a few more holes for the HEMS coil and recirculation ports tonight.

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My biggest concern at this point is with the height in which I should place the holes for the 5500w heating elements and the HERM's coil.

I have a Kal Clone with 3 bottom drain kegs as vessels. My advice on heating element placement is putting them as low as possible. When I built mine I didn't have much choice. When I put my conduit box against my keg I really only had about a quarter of an inch to play with in vertical height. If I would move it up too far it would hit one of the keg ridges, down too far and I would run into the box hitting the skirt. I wanted to make sure I wouldn't hit these for potential sealing issues. This will change depending on your keg/box and what the angles are.

My advice is to take your conduit box and place it on your keg with the washer and see if this is really an issue. If your kegs/box is like mine you won't really have much of a choice. My elements are completely covered by 3 gal of water.
 
^^^^^
My Bottom Drain Keggles on my Kal-inspired system are exactly like MCL says. I actually must have punched one element hole about an 1/8" higher than the other and my face plate of the box hit a rib on the keg. I just beat the tar out of that rib with a brass mallet 'till i had adequate clearance and could tighten the lock nut down to achieve a good seal and proper ground on the keggle.
 
I have a Kal Clone with 3 bottom drain kegs as vessels. My advice on heating element placement is putting them as low as possible. When I built mine I didn't have much choice. When I put my conduit box against my keg I really only had about a quarter of an inch to play with in vertical height. If I would move it up too far it would hit one of the keg ridges, down too far and I would run into the box hitting the skirt. I wanted to make sure I wouldn't hit these for potential sealing issues. This will change depending on your keg/box and what the angles are.

My advice is to take your conduit box and place it on your keg with the washer and see if this is really an issue. If your kegs/box is like mine you won't really have much of a choice. My elements are completely covered by 3 gal of water.

Thanks for the advice. I have the conduit boxes and elements, but still don't have them built yet. I'll put the conduit box on the side of the keg and see how tight my clearances are. Honestly, I didn't even think about skirt weld and rib clearance issue, so I appreciate the feedback. I was more concerned about clearance issue with the internal components. I'm supposed to have 1/2 of my shipment from Bobby at Brewhardware today with my remaining ss fittings, bulkheads, site glasses, pumps, etc. I think I ordered the oversized lock nut and washers from him as well for the elements. The o-rings are coming from Grainger. Not sure which shipment from Bobby my element fittings are going to show up in though. He sent 1/2 of my order USPS priority mail and the second 1/2 standard. The priority shipment is schedule for drop today, but nada on the other shipment in USPS's system.
 
^^^^^
My Bottom Drain Keggles on my Kal-inspired system are exactly like MCL says. I actually must have punched one element hole about an 1/8" higher than the other and my face plate of the box hit a rib on the keg. I just beat the tar out of that rib with a brass mallet 'till i had adequate clearance and could tighten the lock nut down to achieve a good seal and proper ground on the keggle.

Thanks for the feedback as well. Quick questions: Do you recall the height of your element hole (on center) from the bottom of the keg? Do you recall what height your lower HERMs intake port is positioned from the bottom of the keg in the HLT? How much space b/w the element and the bottom of the coil?

Kal used 50 ft. of 1/2" ss tubing in his system for the HERMs, I'm using 50 ft. of 1/2" copper tubing in mine. In his build he went 4 1/2" from the bottom of the kettle for the lower port on center and 11 1/2" to the second port on center with 7" of spacing since his coil ended up 7" tall. He of course used Blichmann's and I'm using keggles. My coil ended up 9 inches tall, so I will space the two holes 9" as opposed to 7". I'm just trying to make sure that I position the coil as low as possible in the HLT, so that the majority of it stays submerged, but with clearance above the element.
 
I believe my element hole was a little over 5 in. I will measure tonight and report back. I wish my coil was more compressed. I think I need 12 gallons in the HLT to completely submerge it. I usually run it with about 9 Gal and the performance is fine.

How are you installing your coil? I installed mine using 90 degree compression fittings. This worked but the coil is at a slight angle. At the lowest point it is about .5 inches above the element.
 
Thanks for the feedback as well. Quick questions: Do you recall the height of your element hole (on center) from the bottom of the keg? Do you recall what height your lower HERMs intake port is positioned from the bottom of the keg in the HLT? How much space b/w the element and the bottom of the coil?

Kal used 50 ft. of 1/2" ss tubing in his system for the HERMs, I'm using 50 ft. of 1/2" copper tubing in mine. In his build he went 4 1/2" from the bottom of the kettle for the lower port on center and 11 1/2" to the second port on center with 7" of spacing since his coil ended up 7" tall. He of course used Blichmann's and I'm using keggles. My coil ended up 9 inches tall, so I will space the two holes 9" as opposed to 7". I'm just trying to make sure that I position the coil as low as possible in the HLT, so that the majority of it stays submerged, but with clearance above the element.

What I did was to work backwards to fit the HERMS coil to the HLT. I coiled the 50'x1/2"OD copper around a small stainless trash can that gave me the ID of the coil that I was targeting. I then swept the ends to about the same vertical plane. From there I took a measurement of the center to center of the HERMS ends. I placed it in my HLT with the element installed aready and placed it a little above the element. The copper will sag under it's own weight a little and mine actually touches the element but it is not causing any issues. From here I measured and marked the locations of the wall penetrations. I soldered all my couplers into the Keggle side walls...
HERMS%20COIL.jpg
 
I believe my element hole was a little over 5 in. I will measure tonight and report back. I wish my coil was more compressed. I think I need 12 gallons in the HLT to completely submerge it. I usually run it with about 9 Gal and the performance is fine.

How are you installing your coil? I installed mine using 90 degree compression fittings. This worked but the coil is at a slight angle. At the lowest point it is about .5 inches above the element.

I'm using 90 degree compression fittings as well. To prevent the sagging on the opposite side I'm going to wrap a strand of 10 guage copper vertically around the coil (from top to bottom) and fasten the wire to a stainless eye bolt that I'll install in the top of the keg.....kind of a suspension wire to keep it from sagging. Thanks man, please report back, because it will be a lot of help. :mug:
 
What I did was to work backwards to fit the HERMS coil to the HLT. I coiled the 50'x1/2"OD copper around a small stainless trash can that gave me the ID of the coil that I was targeting. I then swept the ends to about the same vertical plane. From there I took a measurement of the center to center of the HERMS ends. I placed it in my HLT with the element installed aready and placed it a little above the element. The copper will sag under it's own weight a little and mine actually touches the element but it is not causing any issues. From here I measured and marked the locations of the wall penetrations. I soldered all my couplers into the Keggle side walls...
HERMS%20COIL.jpg

Great advice! The picture really helps. I went with the 90 degree compression fittings as opposed to the straight compression fitting, so I may have even more of an issue with sagging. I may return the 90 degree ones and swap for straight 1/2" MPT x 1/2" od compression fittings. I'm going to do a dry fit first with my suspension system idea to see if it will work before I completely change my game plan.
 
Good idea about the suspension wire... I may do the same. I guess if I tie it off at the bottom coil, I can drill a small hole in the far lip of the kettle opening and suspend it with an eye bolt like you suggested... Nice solution! I wonder about getting enough bare wire to wrap each coil turn or at least every third all the way up so it suspends the entire coil as a whole instead of just the bottom loop...
I have trouble fully draining my HERMS because of this sagging... I wonder if this would help it drain better?
 
do you have a photo of the trim?

No I don't have a pic. Bobby sells it at brewhardware.com, but doesn't have a pic of it. I received one of my shipments from him today and had my wife open the package. Unfortunatly the package contained my site glass kits only. The rest of the shipment for everything else is evidently coming in a large 28 lb. box seperately. It appears as though he shipped the site glasses seperately to prevent breakage. That package came priority mail the other one standard, so it could be another week before I get all of the ss fittings and weldless bulkheads to move forward on the conversions. :mad: I would love to install the siteglasses, but the step bit that I need to install them must be in the other box. Sucks!!!! Looks like I'm stalled until I get this stuff.
 
Great advice! The picture really helps. I went with the 90 degree compression fittings as opposed to the straight compression fitting, so I may have even more of an issue with sagging. I may return the 90 degree ones and swap for straight 1/2" MPT x 1/2" od compression fittings. I'm going to do a dry fit first with my suspension system idea to see if it will work before I completely change my game plan.

The guys that I have seen running 90's have a DEVIL of a time getting them to hook up simply because there is NO room to access the bottom one unless you have really long lead-in and lead-out extension on the HERMS.
 
Good idea about the suspension wire... I may do the same. I guess if I tie it off at the bottom coil, I can drill a small hole in the far lip of the kettle opening and suspend it with an eye bolt like you suggested... Nice solution! I wonder about getting enough bare wire to wrap each coil turn or at least every third all the way up so it suspends the entire coil as a whole instead of just the bottom loop...
I have trouble fully draining my HERMS because of this sagging... I wonder if this would help it drain better?

Absolutely it would help drain better. I also considered wrapping each coil, but will likely just weave in and out in opposite directions every 3rd. coil turn and suspend exactly how you mentioned.....with a stainless eyebolt mounted in the lip adjacent to my lid.
 
The guys that I have seen running 90's have a DEVIL of a time getting them to hook up simply because there is NO room to access the bottom one unless you have really long lead-in and lead-out extension on the HERMS.

Yeah, I know what you're talking about. I slipped the HERMS coil down into the MLT to get an idea of how hard it is going to be to access the compression fittings. I realized pretty quickly that it's gonna be a b*tch to get at them, especially the lower one. I think that I may just save myself the hassle and swap the fittings out now and save some headaches. Thanks you for all of your feedback! :mug:
 
If you have the ability to bend your tubing like Huaco (and KAL for that matter) do it. Installing the bottom of the HERMS coil was by far the biggest pain of the whole build. I didn't want to mess with bending the SS tubing and I already had the 90's. Also I recommend the Derlin sleeves on your compression fittings, whichever you decide to use.
I believe these are included when ordering from Bargain Fittings.
http://www.bargainfittings.com/index.php?route=product/product&keyword=compression&category_id=0&product_id=191

Here are some pics I hope they help.

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Sorry for separating these out into different posts. I feel like a dumb ass but how do you add text between images.

Element Height

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:off: Somewhat, MCL,
Are you using 1/2 NPT bulkheads with a 90 male NPT using teflon tape?
No ill effects? I was trying to not have any threads or tape exposed.
 
Are you using 1/2 NPT bulkheads with a 90 male NPT using teflon tape?
No ill effects? I was trying to not have any threads or tape exposed.

That's what I am using. I haven't had any issues and really never thought of it being a problem.
I am curious, what are you thinking of using?
 
Thanks for the pics mcl....very, very helpful! Got one shipment from Bobby yesterday, but it was the site glasses only. Still patiently waiting for my remaining weldless fittings....hopefully tomorrow. Then I'm sure I will have a lot more questions. Thanks for all of the advice and replies.
 
My final shipment with my remaining keggle conversion parts never showed up yesterday. When I checked the mail late in the evening, they stuck a slip in the mailbox stating that nobody was home and we would have to pick it up. Usually they stick it to the door, so I wasted the entire afternoon waiting for it to arrive, so I could sign for it. My wife went to the post office today to pick it up and said that the box was beat all to sh*t and had a hole in the side of it. She brought it to the attention of the postal worker and she instructed her to go home and inventory the contents and make sure nothing was damaged or missing. We can then file a complaint if something is wrong. Since she doesn't know what the hell any of this stuff is, she's waiting for me to get home to go though the box. Gotta love the USPS for taking pride in their work and caring for how they handle other people's property. :mad:
 
Sux... Man if you file a complaint and they have to shell out cash, that will be another excuse for them to raise postage rates! lol...
 
It's been a busy weekend thus far. When I got home from work last night I inspected the contents of the damaged box from USPS and I'm happy to say that everything was accounted for and the parts were in good shape. I really want to thank Bobby at www.brewhardware.com for continuing to grow his business and add additional hardware and reasonable prices. :mug:
After unboxing all of the parts and taking inventory, I decided to finish my plumbing project before progressing with the keg conversions. I installed a Zoeller ejection pump system for my brewery sink last night, which was a pain in the a$$ like most plumbing projects are. Here's a few pics.

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I had to go out of town this morning for a site visit to one of my businesses and explore another business venture in a neighboring town. Once I go home, I was chomping at the bit to get started with the keggle conversions. I started with the site glass installation and then punched all of the remaining holes for the recirculation ports in the HLT and MLT, as well as the holes for the HERMs coil ports. I decided to start putting the fittings together (ball valves, camlock comoponents, etc.) to see how it looks, but have a lot of work to do on finishing sanding and polishing my kegs to a mirror finish. I also pieced together the dip tubes for each of the vessels and measured and marked for the 1 1/4" holes for the heating elements in the HLT and BK. I have the oversized step bit to drill it, but had to call it quits for the night , so I didn't piss my wife off.

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I have all of the parts for the 5500w heating element components, just need to build them per Kal's specifications. I have a lot of tools, but one thing that I do not have is a drill press. Thankfully, I have 2 neighbors that have drill presses, so I will start to tackle the heating element project next.
 
Thanks! Yeah, it's actually starting to look like something now. Too bad I still have to take everything back apart and spent a couple of days polishing.:drunk: Oh well, at least I can start to see the finish line. Now I suppose I should get serious about the controls to operate this thing.......and a plate chiller, and a vortex ventilation fan, and floor tile, and trim, and paint, and drop ceiling, and.........:D. It's turning into the never ending project!
 
Quick question, where did you get that sweet ss wash tub? Your brewery looks pretty awesome, keep the pics coming!
 
Thanks you all for the compliments. :mug:

Hey frank001, take a peak on your local craigslist and type in "commercial sink" or "stainless steel sink". With all of the smaller businesses that did not survive the downturn in the economy, you're bound to find something out there. I purchased the sink and the two ss tables quite a while back, when the economy still really sucked, so I was finding listing all over the place. I luckily found a local place that was liquidating their assets, so I didn't have to go far.
 
Did you already punch the holes for the elements? You may find you have more flexibility of where to mount it by going with a single gang box vs. a double gang box. My method - I mounted the dip tube firs. I then spent some time looking at the tube, the shape of the element, etc. I put the hole for the element just slightly above the hole for the dip tube (measured center-to-center), and because of the way the element curves, it actually deflects 'around' the dip tube. I don't have a False Bottom in my BK to deal with, so your results may varry.

Once I had the element installed, I measured for the HERMS etc. The other thing I did to help with element placement was to add 5 gallons of water to the BK and measure the height - 5 gallons is the lowest volume I would ever expect to have in there, and I made sure my element, temp probe, and other fittings were below that level (including my return line for recirculating).

If you have other questions on how to drill, where I put things, or anything like that - don't hesitate to hit me up. I just finished my setup, so the memories are fresh.
-Kevin
 
Thanks for all of the advice. I too have been playing around with element placement and think that I have it in the ideal position.....just need to drill the hole. Like yourself, I built and installed the dip tube and then placed the element inside of the keg and moved it around the perimeter/flipped it/etc. until I found the ideal location where dip tube sits in one of the concavities of the s shaped element. Based on feedback from others, my element is at a height where it should be fully submersed with 3 to 3 1/2 gallons. Things seem to be falling into place. I have thought about going with a single gang box, but everything seems to be lining up well with the double gang. I purchased the double gang boxes over a year ago and already opened them, so no returning them now. I really appreciate your feedback! :mug:

Now I need to figure out controls, but I'm really leaning towards the BCS 640. I'm still open to any and all feedback.
 
Sounds like you're well on your way. Take your time with those bigger holes. I would suggest using the punch to start and get as much material out of the way as possible. Mine were difficult, but I'm pretty sure I smoked the bit. LOTS of oil / WD-40 to keep the bit and keg cool and you'll have the holes in no time.

Can't speak to the BCS-640... Go with what you're comfortable with - if you're solid with the computerized side of things and want that level of functionality and bling, then go for it. I prefer the mechanical side of things, so having switches and contactors to open and closed made more sense for me.
-Kevin
 

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