Questions about March Pumps answered by the Factory!

Yakima 728
Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Walter: First, thank you for doing this. I am not sure if this has been asked before in this monster of a thread. I am planning on setting up a whirlpool in my kettle and use a march pump to recirculate my wort. Some people use a restricted (smaller O.D) outlet back into the kettle to increase the velocity of the pumped wort (like you would with a garden hose). However, from the description of the magnetic drive and how it acts as a clutch, is this even possible? If I restrict my outflow will my velocity increase or will the magnetic drive "slip" to reduce to reduce motor strain and thus keep the velocity the same?
 
On a mag-drive you only want to restrict the outlet...never the inlet. Its a common misconception that the mag-drive acts like a clutch...it does and it doesnt......it wont "slip" in the sense that it will allow the impeller to move at a slower speed then the rpm of the motor....the rpm of the motor and the impeller are always at the same speed...but it can "break loose" like when you disengauge the cluch on your can and it allows the motor to free-wheel if the load on the mag-drive is too great. The thing is, it will not re-engauge untill you stop the motor and let the magnets re-align again to re-start.

When you restrict the outlet of the pump you slow the velocity of the liquid down going in/out of the pump...but you increase pressure and thus increase the velocity leaving the discharge point.

So if that confused you the simple answer is you can restrict the outlet side of the pump to get some more pressure. It wont slip.
 
That answered my question perfectly. Is the pressure at which the pump is rated to (give or take) also the point at which the magnetic drive disengages?
 
No. The point at which the mag-drive slips is dependent on the torque of the magnets. In the case of the 809-HS models the magnets have a torque rating of 16 in/oz. So when you exceed that torque rating with enough stress on the impeller with some sort of resistance it will slip and de-couple.
The pressure at which they are rated to is for total system pressure...so if you were running these on a closed system that was pressurized....that's the max pressure the pump head can withstand.
 
Wahoo said:
Walter,
Attempting to do a toolbox install of my 815. I read what you said around Page 30 of this thread about offsetting the magnet on the shaft. When I take off the motor bracket, I can't seem to take the magnet off the shaft. It looks like there is a place for a set screw, but unless I'm missing something, it doesn't look like there is a set screw there! Despite this, I can't seem to slide or remove the magnet. See pic....

- What is going on that doesn't allow me to slide or remove the magnet?
- Does this even in fact have to be done? The toolbox is relatively thin (~1/32"?) and in most of the blogs and articles I've seen about this type of setup, offsetting the magnet isn't mentioned.

Much thanks!!!
Click to expand...

My tool box was 1/16 and I didnt move my magnet and it works perfect
 
Hi Walter. Can you suggest a March pump suitable for a CIP application? I'm going to be installing a new fermentation fridge for my old Blichmann conical that I hardly use since it doesn't have a good place to control temps. I'll be installing a CIP spray ball in the lid and the suggested pressure needed will be between 40-60 psi.

I was thinking I'll need a bit more than an 815 but I'd love to hear your thoughts for the correct pump for my application. I already have two 815's for my brewrig so it could be possible to use one of these but I would prefer to have a dedicated pump for a cart that I built for this as well as having a bigger standalone pump for a future expansion (i.e. if we move into a 3.5 bbl brewhouse/brewpub sort of deal). Thanks in advance.
 
Yeah, i went through this with another member that was trying something like this....unfortunately our pumps don't really make big pressure. First pump i have that can actually make 40psi would be our 8 series....its a 3hp 3 phase unit and can flow 125 gallons per minute....so it would be a BIT overkill for this!! LOL What you would need is some sort of positive displacement pump to make those pressure levels. Like a gear drive or peristaltic or diaphragm.

The other member was going to make a carboy cleaner...or was it a keg cleaner....don't remember. But anyway he was going to try and use an AC-5C-MD and place the outlet of the pipe as close tot he bottom of the vessel as possible to help distribute the fluids all over the bottom of it. But again i don't think there was enough pressure for him so i don't know what ever happened to his idea.
 
Walter,

Any chance there will ever be a SS tri clamp head for the 809/815? I thought you guys used to have one, but it seems to have vanished. Who can I bribe or beg to make it happen?

Thanks.
 
We never had it as a standard option...but we have made some for special orders...but they are usually ordered by the distributors or by OEMS in batches of 100pcs+
They are sent out and TIG welded on.....we usually machine the heads a little differently for welding applications so the threading doesn't get put on...just a smooth taper outside to fit what ever fitting is being istalled. If you wanted to have a pair put on, i'd say get the fittings you want and send them over to me here along with your SS head...then i can get it either machined to fit your fittings or swap it out with another blank head machined to fit your fittings..then i would send it all back to you and you can go to a local welder to have them put on. For us to have it sent out to the welder, we usually add a 6 week lead time to the orders! Not that it usually takes that long but i'm sure you going local would be faster then us doing it for you. :)
 
WalterAtMarchPump said:
Yeah, i went through this with another member that was trying something like this....unfortunately our pumps don't really make big pressure. First pump i have that can actually make 40psi would be our 8 series....its a 3hp 3 phase unit and can flow 125 gallons per minute....so it would be a BIT overkill for this!! LOL What you would need is some sort of positive displacement pump to make those pressure levels. Like a gear drive or peristaltic or diaphragm.

The other member was going to make a carboy cleaner...or was it a keg cleaner....don't remember. But anyway he was going to try and use an AC-5C-MD and place the outlet of the pipe as close tot he bottom of the vessel as possible to help distribute the fluids all over the bottom of it. But again i don't think there was enough pressure for him so i don't know what ever happened to his idea.
Click to expand...

I use the ac-5c-md with a spray ball on my 20 gallon fermenter and it cleans up well with enough force for me. I use a closed loop to recirculate on it while I'm getting things ready to brew. The ac-5c-md is also strong enough to forcefully whirlpool 20 gallons in my kettle.
 
I have a TE-5K-MD with a .2HP Baldor motor I got for $35 on eBay 6 years ago, it shoots water 12 ft into the air through a St. Pats keg cleaning sprayball.... I could use it for a 7bbl fermenter with that sprayball.
I also have what I think is the same pump head on one of the new AC-5 Beer Pump like the above poster has and it works just fine for cleaning sankey kegs with the same sprayball.. The pressure is not what cleans, it is the chemical, so if you can reach the entire vessel to wet it down, you will be fine... I would have no hesitation on using the AC-5 Beer Pump for up to a 2BBL BK or fermenter..
 
clearwaterbrewer, all the series 5 pumps are the same...you can swap them around from pump to pump....the only thing you cant really do is mix and match the pump housings if they are made from different materials....for instance you have the 5K (thats the Kynar plastic version) and you have the AC-5B beer pump(Made from Polysulfone)...they are both black in color but different plastics. They may fit if you lets say swapped the covers around...but the plastics have different shrink rates when molding.....so one or the other may be slightly bigger or smaller and you could potentially have sealing issues with the o-ring. You can swap impellers of any material into any of the pumps...just keep the housings matched. :)
 
Hi Walter,
Can you round me up some part numbers? I need to place an order with my local pump shop here soon.

I need an 815 larger impeller pump with a base and a 6 foot cord, inline 1/2 NPT head.

Do you guys have stainless heads preloaded with the 815 impeller in the 1/2 NPT inline configuration?

Thanks in advance.
 
Walter, thinking of how you can restrict the outlet as much as you want, I had a thought...
Is there any issue with running these long term? Consider a house pumping water from a well... pump is running 24/7, but the flow itself is controlled by opening the outlets (faucets/taps). Could a (primed, of course) March pump be left continuously running for days without any major problems?
 
Hi Walter, I am looking into a bit of automation including flowrate monitoring and would like to eventually have flow control. the 2 options I have prelimanary started looking at areeither a modulated actuated bal valve on the pump output or controlling the pump speed/power.
For the second option I was originally thinking somehow build a VFD but that would likely result in a square wave AC being feed to the pump, would this be an issue?
The othermehtod I have come accros is PWM the pump, is there any issues with doing this - any recommend frequency for the PWM?
 
emjay said:
Walter, thinking of how you can restrict the outlet as much as you want, I had a thought...
Is there any issue with running these long term? Consider a house pumping water from a well... pump is running 24/7, but the flow itself is controlled by opening the outlets (faucets/taps). Could a (primed, of course) March pump be left continuously running for days without any major problems?
Click to expand...

I'm not speaking for Walter, but with my limited experience with well pumps, they pump up to a pressure, then shut off. When you open a valve the pressure drops, and the pump kicks back on.

This is of course irrelevant to your question of continuous running under restriction. Just saying....
 
Hi Walter, I recently broke the outlet port on my 809, and while I see replacement heads sold online I'm curious if they come with an impeller shaft or if you need to use your existing one?

If it's an existing one, how would I go about removing it and installing on the new head?
 
chumprock said:
Hi Walter, I recently broke the outlet port on my 809, and while I see replacement heads sold online I'm curious if they come with an impeller shaft or if you need to use your existing one?

If it's an existing one, how would I go about removing it and installing on the new head?
Click to expand...

on mine (SS 3/4" center inlet) you just unscrew the 4 screws and the whole head comes off. Then on the back there is a SS plate with 4 more screws. Unscrew those and then the head impeller, shaft, and washer just pop out. The back plate has an o-ring. Make sure not to lose that. The heads come apart very easily.

Unless the assembly is around $100 then it is only the head. The impellers run $25 by themselves
 
Irrenarzt said:
Hi Walter,
Can you round me up some part numbers? I need to place an order with my local pump shop here soon.

I need an 815 larger impeller pump with a base and a 6 foot cord, inline 1/2 NPT head.

Do you guys have stainless heads preloaded with the 815 impeller in the 1/2 NPT inline configuration?

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

Sorry for the late reply....for some reason i wasnt getting any emails notifying me of any new postings...
Anyway part number you are looking for is 0809-0196-0600
that would give you an 815-PL with base and 6' cord (inline version)
if you want the center inlet version then it would be 0809-0196-0800

We do have a stainless version but its the center inlet style...not the inline sorry
 
emjay said:
Walter, thinking of how you can restrict the outlet as much as you want, I had a thought...
Is there any issue with running these long term? Consider a house pumping water from a well... pump is running 24/7, but the flow itself is controlled by opening the outlets (faucets/taps). Could a (primed, of course) March pump be left continuously running for days without any major problems?
Click to expand...

As long as there's liquid in the pump you can leave it running...its actually a very popular setup like what you want to do. Our motors are rated for continuous duty. And from what our motor mfg. tells us, if you were to just take it out of the box and run it without any maintenance like oiling it....then it should last 3-5 years running 24/7. We had an 809 pump here that ran 24/7 for 11 years before we took it offline to make rom for another test unit...so if you take care of them they will last :D
 
mattd2 said:
Hi Walter, I am looking into a bit of automation including flowrate monitoring and would like to eventually have flow control. the 2 options I have prelimanary started looking at areeither a modulated actuated bal valve on the pump output or controlling the pump speed/power.
For the second option I was originally thinking somehow build a VFD but that would likely result in a square wave AC being feed to the pump, would this be an issue?
The othermehtod I have come accros is PWM the pump, is there any issues with doing this - any recommend frequency for the PWM?
Click to expand...

From what i know about VFD....it only works right on 3 phase motors
For these single phase units you would need some sort of PWM...but ive never really looked into it before. Some of our customer do get into things like this but you are talking about place thats have a big budget for playing around....like Honeywell, Culligan, and IBM

I would think having some sort of a ball valve with a stepper motor setup or the sorts would be easier to do and probably cheaper....but i dont know...
 
chessking said:
I'm not speaking for Walter, but with my limited experience with well pumps, they pump up to a pressure, then shut off. When you open a valve the pressure drops, and the pump kicks back on.

This is of course irrelevant to your question of continuous running under restriction. Just saying....
Click to expand...

Those types of pumps are positive displacement units and have a pressure sensor built in to the unit to monitor for pressure loss...when it see a drop it kicks in to raise it back up. Not what ours do. What he was talking about, you can find the setup at you local home depot or Menards...you install the pump on the outlet side of your hot water tank and just turn it on and let it run....(some people like to put them on timers so they only work during the day when people are most likely to be in need of hot water)....then at each fixture you want hot water to be available at you install a mixing valve....when it cools off it opens and the pump will the cooled off hot water side back into the cold water side untill it feels the hot water and shuts itself off. So basicly you make a recirc loop into the cold side untill there is hot water again at the fixture.. :)
 
chumprock said:
Hi Walter, I recently broke the outlet port on my 809, and while I see replacement heads sold online I'm curious if they come with an impeller shaft or if you need to use your existing one?

If it's an existing one, how would I go about removing it and installing on the new head?
Click to expand...

easiest way to get the shaft out is to force it by hand to one side and then wiggle it out...since the pump head is no good it doesnt matter if you make the hole the shaft is in any bigger. As far as getting it back in the new one....you should be able to start it into the "D" slot in the pump head by hand then flip it over...place the impeller shaft against the table or hard surface and press it the rest of the way in... :D
 
Walter

Will prolonged exposure to starsan hurt my pump? Im thinking about building a keg/carboy/bottle wash/rinse station and was thinking about using my pump to circulate the liquid.

Thank
 
Airplanedoc said:
Walter

Will prolonged exposure to starsan hurt my pump? Im thinking about building a keg/carboy/bottle wash/rinse station and was thinking about using my pump to circulate the liquid.

Thank
Click to expand...

Depends on which pump you use for this....from what i have been told by others who have looked in to Starsan....it can lift Teflon....now that’s off of Teflon lined pans etc....so I’m not sure how it would affect the actual Teflon washer we use in the 809's....if you were using the 3B or the 5B then its not a problem as we use a ceramic washer in those units. :)
 
WalterAtMarchPump said:
Sorry for the late reply....for some reason i wasnt getting any emails notifying me of any new postings...
Anyway part number you are looking for is 0809-0196-0600
that would give you an 815-PL with base and 6' cord (inline version)
if you want the center inlet version then it would be 0809-0196-0800

We do have a stainless version but its the center inlet style...not the inline sorry
Click to expand...

Thanks Walter. Can you give me the part numbers for the SS heads with the center inlets? Thanks a bunch.
 
WalterAtMarchPump said:
From what i know about VFD....it only works right on 3 phase motors
For these single phase units you would need some sort of PWM...but ive never really looked into it before. Some of our customer do get into things like this but you are talking about place thats have a big budget for playing around....like Honeywell, Culligan, and IBM

I would think having some sort of a ball valve with a stepper motor setup or the sorts would be easier to do and probably cheaper....but i dont know...
Click to expand...

Thanks Walter. Yeah most vfd are 3 phase but you can use the priciple for single phase (if I understand correctly. I will look at PWM as I think hat will give better and easier control.
Cheers!
 
These come with the impellers and everything or just heads? Can you get heads with 815 impellers pre-installed? Is the center inlet 1/2 or 3/4 NPT?

Sorry for all the questions but I'd like to get my ducks all in a row before ordering. Thanks for your help.
 
That part number was for the pump head alone....no parts inside just bare.
We don't carry a complete assembly as these are not ones to go bad....unfortunately you would need to buy the parts individually. The nice part is if you have an existing 809, you can reuse the rear cover and shaft and all you would need is the o-ring (0809-0165-1000) and the impeller (0809--0107-0200)
 
Hello Everybody,

Just joined this site, and love the great information, but I do have a question.

I bought a 3 BBL brewery from a warehouse sale: the pump included was a March BC-4K-MD. I have never seen this system operate, so I'm wondering what they were using this pump for, as it is rated for 200*F they may not have pumped boiling wort through it.

Is there a way to upgrade this pump to handle boiling wort temperatures?

Thanks,

Nick
 
nickdahl said:
Is there a way to upgrade this pump to handle boiling wort temperatures?

Thanks,

Nick
Click to expand...

Yes and no......the series 4 pumps are the exact same pump as the series 5 physicly...the difference is inside with the impeller. You could buy the 5B pump head and it will bolt right up...but if you try and pump with it it would probably overload the motor and woudl overheat. If you wanted to make it work then you would need to take the 5B impeller and have the blade height milled down to match that of the series 4 pump and you would be in business. :)
 
WalterAtMarchPump said:
Yes and no......the series 4 pumps are the exact same pump as the series 5 physicly...the difference is inside with the impeller. You could buy the 5B pump head and it will bolt right up...but if you try and pump with it it would probably overload the motor and woudl overheat. If you wanted to make it work then you would need to take the 5B impeller and have the blade height milled down to match that of the series 4 pump and you would be in business. :)
Click to expand...

Thanks, Walter. Milling a 5B impeller sounds expensive and laborious.

With that understanding, would my pump work for recirculating 170*F wort and pumping it to the boil kettle, since its rating goes up to 200*F?

I presumed getting a second pump but I was thinking about an 815 for the home-brew RIMS system I'm building first. Are there any drawbacks to "overkill" when it comes to pumping? That is, would I have problems using a Series 5 pump on a keggle-based brewing system?

Thanks again,

Nick
 
if you have a local machine shop all they would need to do it chuck it up on a lathe and mill the blades down to 1/4" tall as the 5b impeller blades are 3/8" tall...shouldnt cost much at all...would take them less then 2 min to do it all.

But if you are only working with 170* liquids, then the standard pump will be just fine. The Kynar plastic we use on these pumps is FDA approved for potable water use.

Overkill with our pumps is usually easier to deal with then not having enough. When you have too big a pump with a mag-drive centrifical, you can choke the outlet to balance the system out, or we can trim the impeller to cut the flow rates and the pump can be made to run in a happy state. The right pump is usually determined by your setup and what you want to get out of it in the end. If you feel the 815 wont be enough then check out the AC-3B pump...its the next step up from the 815 and gives a little more output.

If you have any more questions or want to talk, just give me a call at work :)
 
WalterAtMarchPump said:
if you have a local machine shop all they would need to do it chuck it up on a lathe and mill the blades down to 1/4" tall as the 5b impeller blades are 3/8" tall...shouldnt cost much at all...would take them less then 2 min to do it all.

But if you are only working with 170* liquids, then the standard pump will be just fine. The Kynar plastic we use on these pumps is FDA approved for potable water use.

Overkill with our pumps is usually easier to deal with then not having enough. When you have too big a pump with a mag-drive centrifical, you can choke the outlet to balance the system out, or we can trim the impeller to cut the flow rates and the pump can be made to run in a happy state. The right pump is usually determined by your setup and what you want to get out of it in the end. If you feel the 815 wont be enough then check out the AC-3B pump...its the next step up from the 815 and gives a little more output.

If you have any more questions or want to talk, just give me a call at work :)
Click to expand...

Thanks! I could buy a 5b impeller blade, have it milled to 1/4" tall, then replace the original blade with the 5b impeller blade? Then my pump would handle boiling wort? That sounds like a good option!

Nick
 

Similar threads

fljim
SS Brewtech 1BBL Unitank - BEWARE!!
Replies
22
Views
776
Indian_villager
I
D
BrewPressure - DIY pressure sensor
Replies
0
Views
582
Diyhomebrewers
D
HBT_Admin
  • Locked
Spring 2024 Corny Keg Giveaway
9 10 11
Replies
417
Views
8K
HBT_Admin
HBT_Admin
passedpawn
Florida $999 10g Electric Brewery, SS Brewtech, RIMS, pump, chiller, stainless glory!
2
Replies
52
Views
5K
passedpawn
passedpawn
F
Advice on developing clone of Mast Landing "Windbreaker" NEIPA?
Replies
4
Views
655
poptarts
poptarts

Latest posts

Back
Top