Late Addition Extract?

I'm relatively new to brewing (7 months), but have already completed 7 batches and moved on to partial mash for last 2. For the process we have come up with we have been adding the extract with ~20min remaining on the boil. (FYI - typically we use 8lbs gain and 3lbs DME for a 5gal batch) I thought it was a good idea to add it late in order to maximize the hop utilization. Today I was reading the letters to the editior in Zymurgy (nov/dec edition) about this and it says to always boil extract an hour to coagulate the proteins. Titled "Late Addition Extract", am I the only one doing this? Is it common?

What are you thoughts on the need to boil extract for 60min plus?

I saw that in Zymurgy, too. It surprised me, because everyone else I talk with seems to think of it as a common and accepted practice. My understanding that extract doesn't need to boiled at all, since it's been processed at the factory. In fact, they make "no boil" and "20 minute boil" kits that are big sellers.

I'm not one to dispute Charlie Papazian, though. My experience is different, in that I did it many times with good results but I am definitely no expert. Charlie says he never even heard of the practice before he got that letter.

i always understood you shouldn't boil extract more than 15-20 either. i'm a grainer, so i'm not an expert either, though

I always heard you should boil it at least 15 minutes for a hot break, but anything else was unneeded and as mentioned in the letter, caused darkening (caramelized sugars). I always added any extract late without any discernible difference, but changed due to problems with boil overs near the end when I was doing other additions. It was just easier to add before boiling.

It is so hard to sift through all the opinions and anecdotal evidence.

Anyone else have thoughts on why boiling DME for less than 60min is a bad idea?

Here's a good article on it: http://www.baderbrewing.com/store/product.php?productid=22691&cat=396&page=1

I've always understood that since the extract was boiled when it was made, that it had it's hot break then. I usually add my extract just before flameout when I can.

I added all of my DME at flameout for last batch, am I screwed now?

paraordnance said:

I added all of my DME at flameout for last batch, am I screwed now?

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Nope. Like I said, I've done that all the time.

For what it's worth, in Brewing Classic Styles John Palmer recommends adding the late addition at flame out. That's the way I've been doing my partial mashes for the last year and a half.

i brewed 20 batches last year all extracs (started AG in 2010). After about half of my extract batches i found out about late additions. And do that religiously now. Like HiGraveShawn said i thought you wanted some boil time on extracts. I went to DME almost 100% of the time and i add 50% of it with 20 to 30 mins left in the boil. I think it helps with hop utilization, color, and perventing overcarmilzation of flavors.

ChshreCat said:

I've always understood that since the extract was boiled when it was made, that it had it's hot break then.

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I've checked the websites of many malt processing companies, trying to find out if a hot break is needed or not. From what I saw, one of the common ways of making extract is to heat the wort in a vacuum. The vacuum causes the boiling point to be at a much lower temperature. The boiling point of water in a vacuum is 77° F.
From the Briess Extract Booklet:

Batches
are fed into storage every four
hours, and the storage tanks
continuously feed into the
evaporator, which concentrates
the wort to 80% solids (about the
consistency of honey), or dryer,
which dries the wort to an
agglomerated powder. The
evaporator works under vacuum,
which allows the wort to boil at
lower temperatures, saving both
time and energy. Lower temperatures
also allow concentration to
occur without damaging the color
or flavor of the concentrated wort.

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From my experience: I've used United Canadian Pale LME and Briess Golden Light LME, and both require a hot break. I recently tried the Briess because I read somewhere that it didn't need a hot break, but when I did a late addition with it, it sure foamed up like a hot break. There was quite a bit of trub too, but it was hard to how much of it was hot break because of all the hops. I have not tried DME yet.

I do know that with my brews, the less grain I use and the more LME I use, the less hot break I would get. *shrug* I do late additions and my beer comes out good. That's about all I need to know.

I recently listened to Basic Brewing Radio episode from 11-17-05, Difficult Beers and Brewing with Extracts, where James Spencer interviews Bob Hansen from Breiss Malt & Ingredients. Later in the interviewer Bob states, and I'm paraphrasing, that the malt is not completely sterile and requires the boil to kill any nasties lingering and that adding extract to the boil at 15-20 minutes is perfectly acceptable.
Personally, I add have at 15 minutes and the rest at flameout.

There hasn't been much traffic on this topic, it seems like most don't think a late extract addition is a big deal. I've brewed once since starting this topic, and added DME with 20min left in the boil, my FG sample tasted just dandy.

I've only been brewing a month, but my batch tomorrow will be number 6. I've had some where it's been a Brewer's Best box kit and I just followed the instructions, a recipe from the store, and a couple recipes from here.

Some of the Brewer's Best kits do "late" additions. The one my sister's boyfriend wants to brew tomorrow, BB's Weizenbier, half the LME goes in at the beginning of the boil, then the bittering hops, then the other half of the LME, and then the final hop addition.

Most of the beers I've done have had the specialty grains steeped and removed and then brought to a boil. I've been adding all the extracts as soon as it reached a boil and boiled anywhere from 60-90 minutes.

Other than lighter color by preventing the sugars from caramelizing or burning, what are the benefits to late addition of the extracts?

Seems to me that late extract additions are mainly for brewers who cannot do a full boil. If the full amount of extract is in there but at a normal gravity (i.e. not concentrated due to a small amount of water), would there really be that much difference from an all-grain derived wort of similar gravity? I guess you can get better hop utilization, but for a 60-minute or even a 90-minute boil do you really get much darkening with a full boil?

I did late additions when I was doing extract, but have forgotten some of my reasoning. But I will be doing my first PM this weekend, so now you've got me thinking again. But I still think I will add all extract at the beginning to get the correct pre-boil gravity so I don't have to change my hop utilization.

2bluewagons said:

Seems to me that late extract additions are mainly for brewers who cannot do a full boil. If the full amount of extract is in there but at a normal gravity (i.e. not concentrated due to a small amount of water), would there really be that much difference from an all-grain derived wort of similar gravity? I guess you can get better hop utilization, but for a 60-minute or even a 90-minute boil do you really get much darkening with a full boil?

I did late additions when I was doing extract, but have forgotten some of my reasoning. But I will be doing my first PM this weekend, so now you've got me thinking again. But I still think I will add all extract at the beginning to get the correct pre-boil gravity so I don't have to change my hop utilization.

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I start with 5 gallons in the kettle since I can't fit more right now without running the risk of boiling over. I usually have to add almost a full gallon of water to the wort once it's cooled to top off to 5 gallons.

2bluewagons said:

Seems to me that late extract additions are mainly for brewers who cannot do a full boil. If the full amount of extract is in there but at a normal gravity (i.e. not concentrated due to a small amount of water), would there really be that much difference from an all-grain derived wort of similar gravity? I guess you can get better hop utilization, but for a 60-minute or even a 90-minute boil do you really get much darkening with a full boil?

I did late additions when I was doing extract, but have forgotten some of my reasoning. But I will be doing my first PM this weekend, so now you've got me thinking again. But I still think I will add all extract at the beginning to get the correct pre-boil gravity so I don't have to change my hop utilization.

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I do 2 half boils and combine in the primary to get a 5gal batch. My method uses Death Brewers stovetop mash method, but twice. Generally we use 8-9lbs grain and 3lbs DME, but cut it in half and brew 2 2.5gal batches. so i'm not doing a full boil, but i'm not diluting with water either.

I used to boil my DME for for 60 minutes, but recently started adding it after the hop and mash boil. In fact the DME doesnt even reach a boil, more like a pasteurization temp of 170 degrees. I am trying to avoid a second protein break so I can hold on to some mid sized protein for head and body.

I've had nothing but great results using the last 15min late addition method to my partial mashes. A buddy who is an extract brewer uses this method as well and noticed a good improvement in color in lighter beers. (not coming out darker than expected anymore)

I usually do a late addition of DME at about 15 minutes left in the boil. I like the late addition's effects on hop utilization. I made two all DME IPA's back to back on the same day, one adding all my DME at the beginning, the other using ~35% of the DME at the beginning and ~65% of the DME at 15 minutes. The late addition was definitely a bit less colored and was noticeably more bitter.

The problem that have found is that I get really close to a boilover if my wort size is any greater than 3 gallons with a late addition. Something about that high gravity wort I suppose causes this. Brewing in a bigger BK solves this issue.