Does liquid yeast really give better flavors?

just curious. the first batch i did was with dry yeast. my next batch will be using a smackpack. a smackpack takes 3 hours to incubate. with a dry yeast it would only take about half hour to rehydrate. i would love to brew today but by the time my yeast would incubate i wouldn't have time. is there any truth to liquid yeast giving better flavors? because the next batch i do i would love to use dry yeast seeing how you don't need to plan leaving out a smackpack overnight before you can brew

you don't have to incubate, wait, etc with the smackpacks. its just a proofing of the yeast. you can open the package and pitch if you want.

I usually smack mine right when i think I"m going to get started and let it sit until pitching time, sometimes it swells, sometimes not.

Well, liquid yeast comes in more varieties, so when the yeast character is a large part of the beer you'll probably want to use liquid yeast.

Dry yeast is fine, and comes in several varieties.

The thing is, though, that you don't have to wait for the smackpack to swell.

There are some disadvantages to using liquid yeast perhaps, but waiting fo rthe smackpack to swell isn't one of them. You can let it swell, or not, and it doesn't matter one bit.

One of the disadvantages to using liquid yeast is that one package has a smaller cell count than the 11 gram dry yeast packages. That means that you usually have to make a starter with liquid yeast unless the OG is incredibly low. Also, liquid yeast tends to be more expensive.

alright cool thanks alot. i was planning on brewing sunday morning and smacking the pack saturday before bed. so you are saying that it doesn't matter if it starts to inflate or not? i would really like to know my yeast is good before i even start brewing that way i can write the company that sent it to me for a replacement. the last thing i want is to have the wort ready and have a dud yeast. also can i smack it now let it swell and stick it back in my fridge until ready to use? will that hurt anything?

Since you're not brewing until Saturday, why not make a starter tonight and then you'll know you have viable yeast as well as being closer to the optimum pitch rate?

I like the yeast pitching rate calculator on mrmalty.com here: http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html You easily see how much yeast each batch requires, and if you need a starter or not and if so how big.

Some other good info on yeast: http://www.mrmalty.com/starter_faq.htm

+1 yooper

in case you dont know how...

the smack pack i have is wyeast 1469 and is an activator pack. the og of the wort i will pour it into is estimated to be 1043. that pack should be more than adequate right?

Make a starter, you won't be dissapointed. you will have a cleaner fermentation that will properly attenuate. You don't know the conditions in which the yeast was transported and stored therefore the actual number of cells in the smack pack could be far less than what is listed on the package. A starter will ensure you have a healthy pitch of yeast.

And, listen to Yoop, she know's her stuff

i thought the whole design of a smackpack was to eliminate the need for a starter. the puffing of the pouch indicates you have viable yeast.

My LHBS sells the Wyeast activator packs for around $10. This makes it pretty much the most expensive part of a recipe. I have always had good experiences with dry yeast in the past, but there is no denying the variety of yeast character you can get with a liquid yeast pack. This is something I have been willing to pay a premium for.

sportscrazed2 said:

i thought the whole design of a smackpack was to eliminate the need for a starter. the puffing of the pouch indicates you have viable yeast.

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You are correct in that it tells you the yeast are viable, but does nothing about cell count.

A starter is used to increase yeast cell count and yeast health.

the activator tells me that there are 100 million yeast cells in the pack. is that enough to produce adequate fermentation? don't they also reproduce while the smack pack is inflating?

moxie said:

My LHBS sells the Wyeast activator packs for around $10. This makes it pretty much the most expensive part of a recipe. I have always had good experiences with dry yeast in the past, but there is no denying the variety of yeast character you can get with a liquid yeast pack. This is something I have been willing to pay a premium for.

Click to expand...

As an aside, If you 'wash the yeast', you can reuse it in another batch. I've used the same Wyeast 1056 in five different batches so far, so the cost of liquid yeast doesn't seem as bad now.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Washing_yeast

When the packs are immediately packaged you are guaranteed that there are 100 billion cells of yeast. However, cell count declines with age. Go to mrmalty.com and enter the manufacture date of your smack pack and have it calculate yeast viability. The calculator estimates, based off emperical knowledge, the amount of viable yeast left in the package. It will then povide you with the recommended starter size based on your wort OG and method of making a starter.

There is no oxygen in the smack pack, therefore the yeast cannot reproduce and increase in cell count. The smack pack contains nutrients to help "wake" the yeast from a dormant stage. It does not take the place of a starter.

EDIT: Making a starter is one of the easiest ways to improve the quality of your beer. IMO, fermentation > than just about everything else, assuming you are sanitary.

sportscrazed2 said:

i thought the whole design of a smackpack was to eliminate the need for a starter. the puffing of the pouch indicates you have viable yeast.

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Starters multiply yeast. The smack pack also multiplies a little bit - by giving it food, it produces CO2 and inflates the pouch, and invariably reproduces a few. You will be fine with a smack pack and a 5 gallon batch of beer. It works. I've done it many times. That and the white labs vials.

However, as I've grown in my education, my efforts to produce better beers, I carefully control my fermentation temperatures now, I let even the lightest beers ferment for 4 weeks, and I use starters. Why? because the more yeast I give that beer, the quicker it starts, the more complete it finishes. I've given the yeast a boost to do their job more efficiently, by doubling their numbers as they go in.

If you haven't made a starter before, you don't have to do it now, but one day you probably will. There are lots of threads about starters and stir-plates (helps the yeast) so read up, you decide, and when you're ready - go for it!


https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/how-make-yeast-starter-pictorial-76101/

have you ever overpitched using a starter? as it is right now i only have enough dme for the wort and don't really feel like running out to my local homebrew store.

Activator packs are fine up about 1.070. Over that or if you are using a propagator pack, you'll need a starter.

sportscrazed2 said:

just curious. the first batch i did was with dry yeast. my next batch will be using a smackpack. a smackpack takes 3 hours to incubate. with a dry yeast it would only take about half hour to rehydrate. i would love to brew today but by the time my yeast would incubate i wouldn't have time. is there any truth to liquid yeast giving better flavors? because the next batch i do i would love to use dry yeast seeing how you don't need to plan leaving out a smackpack overnight before you can brew

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Aside from there being more varieties available in liquid form, my experience is that dry yeast doesn't flocculate as well, especially if you compare Safale-05 to 1056 or 001. A cold crash and some gelatin solves the problem very nicely though.

It's prudent to keep a few packs of dry yeast in fridge just in case liquid one is a dud.

Smackpacks should swell - thats the whole idea - if you leave it at proper temps for proper time, fermentation should occur within the pack and CO2 will swell it up - thats how you know its alive.

Btw, flavors depend on yeast type, fermentation temperature and amount you pitch. If I'm correct, yeast usually produces "flavors" while it multiplies - in the first stage of fermentation, so, indirectly, it is linked to amount of yeast cells you pitch.

Personally I use White Labs Liquid yeasts exclusively. Even though my LHBS has Wyeast and some other dry yeasts, I won't touch em. Been using White Labs since day one. Never had a problem with a single vial, and since I am in San Diego, I always get super fresh vials. I've even gotten a few that were cultured the day before I bought them! I wouldn't use anything else. Couldn't be happier with the results I get with White Labs

I am new to homebrewing so I am no expert but I have spent a decent amount of time researching as much as I can trying to understand what options are available to be to maintain a good brewing experience. There are several ways of doing the same task when homebrewing so its just easier to go with what you feel comfortable with. I decided to go with liquid yeast and yeast starters no matter what the OG of the brew is. While it makes sense why a higher OG needs a yeast starter, it also seems logical to provide a solid foundation for the fermentation of any level OG wort.

I could be wrong but I would think the lag time that can occur between pitching your yeast and active fermentation starting could be overcome by getting your yeast active before they are pitched into a much larger volume of wort. It also makes sense that yeast already acclimated to the temperature in which they will be fermenting in will do better, a yeast started provides that period of adjustment.

If anything creating a yeast started is a good time to practice your brewing skills since its basically a small batch of wort (which can be hopped if you want to), so you can test your technique on a much smaller scale.

Just my two cents....

Personally, I'll use dry yeast when I just want a clean yeast (US-05 over WLP001 for example) and I use liquid when I'm looking for a characteristic specific to the liquid yeasts.

That said, best practice when using liquid yeasts is to make a starter. You're much better off overpitching than underpitching, and you'd have to try pretty hard to overpitch. Your beer will be fine if you don't make a starter, but it will be better if you do.

I just keep a bunch of US-05 in the fridge and when I get a bug up my ass to brew I grab a pack and toss it in. Luckily I'm making lots of beers that it's suited for lately.