PM Dunkelweizen for Critiquing

3 lbs Wheat Dry Extract
3 lbs Wheat Malt
1.5 lbs Dark Munich Malt
0.5 lbs Vienna Malt
0.25 lbs British Chocolate Malt
1.0 oz Tettanager @ 60 mins

From what I have read/have been told, I will be mashing at 153F, and would need to strike at 168F (1.3 qt/lb). I am doing this all on stove top, per DeathBrewer's write up. No MLT yet

Is it beneficial to sparge twice in smaller amounts or just sparge with as much as water I can once?

Looking forward to some tasty dark

Bump!?

I would like some recommendations on the yeast, anything dry that is good for weizen, or should I go liquid on this? If so, will that entail making a starter?

I've only used WLP-300 and Wyeast 3068. I like them enough to never try anything else. I've had a pack of WB-06 in the fridge for six months that I have no idea what to do with.

I like the recipe. The only thing I do different is German Carafa instead of Chocolate malt but it's not big difference.

I picked the British Chocolate based on my sniff test of the available chocolates at my LHBS (which is the same people as homebrewmart.com). I assume they have the Carafa there, didn't know it was interchangeable for chocolate malt. I'll have a whiff when I go to buy the ingredients. Any big difference in what it adds to body/flavour?

I use Weyermann Carafa II spacial. The flavor is only slightly different. I'd say it's smoother. The color should be close. Being a German malt it's probably more authentic.

My advice is go with it.. let Chaos decide what kind of beer you will be drinking.

Is it beneficial to sparge twice in smaller amounts or just sparge with as much as water I can once?

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I probably would just mash in the whole boil volume and add the extract after some boil off. Your going to loose about a quart socked up by the grain too. That is how BIAB is done. You could even boil the grains and all after conversion for 10-20 minutes to simulate a decotion mash.
The Brewing Network &bull; View topic - How to go from Extract to AG for < $10.00

Thanks for the link, I'll have a read through it.

Still not sure on the yeast. I need to do some reading, but if I use a liquid yeast, do I HAVE to make a starter with it? Are there any good dry hefe yeasts? I was trying to avoid getting into yeasts too heavily at the beginning, but I really want to brew this style

No starter is needed for a regular weizen. It may take a day or two to take off but the beer will be good. A good trick is to keep it just over 70F until it starts to gas of some C02 (for the propagation phase.) It says so right on the WLP-300 vile. The lag time is not a bad thing.

I like the WLP380 for my dunkelweizens...I don't like the WLP300 unless I'm making "banana bread ale"

I rarely use a starter. In fact, I'm making a hefeweizen today with WLP300...doesn't need a starter.

I would keep the beer in the low 60s if at all possible, for the entirety of it's fermentation. Swirl it a couple times the first few days (if you need to) to keep those yeast busy.

Other than that, it looks like a great recipe. Never used the dark munich...let me know how that turns out.

Keeping it in the low 60's isn't too easy this time of year, upper 60's I can manage. I need to build a fermentation chiller one of these days, just need to get SWMBO on board. I did go out and buy nearly everything for a 5 gal MLT today though. Just need some stainless washers and I am good to go.

Think I'll need any rice hulls in this, or is there little enough that I shouldn't get a stuck sparge?

As for the dark munich, it was at my LHBS, sounded like it would go well in a dunkel. I shall report back on that one. I believe it is 30L.

There is no need for the rice hulls. I brewed a variation of this, using death brewers technique as well. Heres the recipe, with a small tweak. It was very delicious, as i only have about 20 beers left. I'll brew this up again once a carboy opens up.

Dunkelweizen
Est Original Gravity: 1.055 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.013 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.51 %
Bitterness: 12.4 IBU
Calories: 244 cal/pint

0.25 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 2.94 %
0.25 lb Caramunich Malt (56.0 SRM) Grain 2.94 %
0.75 oz Tettnang [4.70 %] (60 min) Hops 12.4 IBU
1 Pkgs Hefeweizen IV Ale (White Labs #WLP380) Yeast-Wheat
2.00 lb Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 23.53 %
3.00 lb Wheat Malt, Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 35.29 %
3.00 lb Wheat Dry Extract (8.0 SRM) Dry Extract 35.29 %

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My buddies call this the "Death Metal Dunkelweizen" :rockin:

With BIAB there are no stuck sparges (and no sparges) and never a need for rice hulls. In fact if you can crush the hell out of your grain your better off where as us with MLTs get the stuck.

I have some Global Malt dark Munich and let me tell you that is some very, very tasty stuff. The American stuff is FAIL.

This is my next brew when my fermentation tub has the space.
http://hopville.com/recipe/30720/dunkelweizen-recipes/dunkelweizen

yep, the tea-bag method doesn't get stuck because there is so much surface around the bag for it to flow through. Wheat isn't that bad, anyway. Rye, on the other hand...ugh...

ezboarderz said:

My buddies call this the "Death Metal Dunkelweizen" :rockin:

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Rad :rockin:

You guys must have missed my short sentence where I said:

I did go out and buy nearly everything for a 5 gal MLT today though. Just need some stainless washers and I am good to go.

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Shhh, don't tell SWMBO, I haven't yet. BUT that's her fault for not answering the phone while I was in Home Depot so she could talk me down!

DeathBrewer said:

yep, the tea-bag method doesn't get stuck because there is so much surface around the bag for it to flow through. Wheat isn't that bad, anyway. Rye, on the other hand...ugh...



Rad :rockin:

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Oh it is rad. BTW i am stealing your bathory bathtub ale idea, to fit my "Bathory Belgian Blonde, AKA Quorthon blonde"

I mean what metalhead wouldn't drink it?

Gotcha...didn't know you were using that today. Wheat does not necessarily need rice hulls (I rarely use them) but you may have trouble seeing as it is your first time on that system. If you are able to get them, I would use them.

ezboarderz said:

Oh it is rad. BTW i am stealing your bathory bathtub ale idea, to fit my "Bathory Belgian Blonde, AKA Quorthon blonde"

I mean what metalhead wouldn't drink it?

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Are you putting blood sausage in the mash? :cross:

haha no, that is pretty rad though. Just stealing the name. I need to figure out a name for my apelwein though.

But that dunkelweizen is pretty damn good though. I might need to steal your PM hefe recipe, after tasting the good stuff with the dunkel.

DeathBrewer said:

Gotcha...didn't know you were using that today. Wheat does not necessarily need rice hulls (I rarely use them) but you may have trouble seeing as it is your first time on that system. If you are able to get them, I would use them.

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I'm not brewing this until next weekend (I'm out of town doing the Mother's Day thing, but managed to sneak off to Home Depot). My LHBS has the hulls, so I'll pick those up when I get my grain this week. I saw somewhere on here that ~5% of your grain weight should be hulls. That accurate? Puts me at 0.25 lbs.

I've always gone with ZERO%, but I know how to deal with a stuck sparge. Stuck sparges always lead to higher efficiency. :rockin:

I use 10%. For rye, I'm going to start using 20% and see if that helps...I want to make that roggenbier on a large scale and that's not going to happen the way things have been working.

Stuck sparges (slow runnings) do lead to higher efficiency, but at times they take FOREVER.

OK, cool. I'll throw in a quarter pound of rice hulls. Can't wait to brew this!

I usually get one stuck sparge with a weizen. Not slow sparge but totally stuck. I batch sparge and let it flow as fast as I can. When it stops I close the valve, stir and vorlauf. If hopvile's PPG numbers are correct I got over 90% efficiency with my last hefe.

So when you get such high efficiency, do you remove some wort and dilute out? Or just go with it despite the high SG? Imperial hefe?

I usually dilute it. If there is room (which usually means I boiled off too much), I'll dilute in the fermenter. If there isn't room, I'll dilute in the keg.

I didn't need to. I shot for 80% in the middle of the style. If I get 70-90% it's should be fine. I sometimes take a pre boil reading so I could adjust the hops if I want. I couldn't dilute it if a wanted with out taking wort out. 5.6 gallons is all I can get away with in my fermenters. I guess I could dilute when I bottle but 1.051 is fine. I pretty much get 85-87% now. The smaller the grain bill the higher the efficiency.

I don't know what you are building but here are my tuns.

This is a five gallon water jug.

I got the false bottom from the classified section here. I had to bend it over a one gallon paint can and crimp it in four places. It works great for both fly and batch sparging.

This is my 48qt with a PEX manifold that I drilled about one freeking billion 1/8 inch holes in the bottom of. I also made some bends in it by heating it with a torch to get to the bottom.

It works great for batch sparging. It siphons about all the wort out.

I am making one like your 5 gal, just not with the false bottom. I'm going to run a straight braid for now but have plans to make a braid manifold in the near future.

OK, made up a test batch of this with the following recipe (modified based on what my LHBS had, and a mistake on how much CarafaII):

2.5 gallon test batch
1.5 lbs Munton's Wheat DME (late addition @ 15 mins left)
1.5 lbs White Wheat Malt
1 lbs Belgian Munich 10L
0.25 CarafaII

0.4 oz Tettanger Plug @ 60 mins

1 Pkg SafBrew WB-06 Yeast

My SG is 1.053, and it has a great, dark colour. Darker than it was going to because I meant to only use 0.125 lbs of CarafaII, but messed up and put in too much. You can read all about my brew day adventure here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/first-pm-awfulness-cant-wait-try-119847/ Oh well, we shall see how it comes out. I was thinking 3 week primary, 2-3 weeks in the bottle, That sound good for this style?

Gremlyn1 said:

Bump!?

I would like some recommendations on the yeast, anything dry that is good for weizen, or should I go liquid on this? If so, will that entail making a starter?

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Definitely don't use dry yeast I made up a Dunkel similar to yours a few weeks ago and I used Safale WB-06 and it was terrible.

Go with WLP-300 .. can't go wrong with that.

Well NOW you tell me

I've heard mixed reviews on that yeast. One person stated that it tastes great after it sits for a bit, but it was terrible when it was fresh. So if you don't like it right away, let 'er sit.

That's always the best plan anyway, right? I was going to go for a liquid yeast, but didn't want to spend that much for a test batch. Figured the WB-06 couldn't be too bad, I will just have to wait and find out.

Gremlyn1 said:

Well NOW you tell me

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I did. I bought WB-06 with high hopes but when people started posting about it I never used it. I read that it's good for apple wine (but then cheap wine is just cheaper.)


It looks like you may have a Porter-Weizen going on.

Conroe said:

I did. I bought WB-06 with high hopes but when people started posting about it I never used it. I read that it's good for apple wine (but then cheap wine is just cheaper.)


It looks like you may have a Porter-Weizen going on.

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You just told me you have a pack and don't know what to do with it. Figured you just liked the ones you had so much, you didn't feel the need to try it. I do see quite a few posts about it being iffy, maybe it'll do better with the very dark stuff?

And yeah, it's pretty dark... I'll call it a sehrdunkelweizen

Some people have said they do get the clove from it. That is more important then the banana for a dunkeweizen. I do like a little banana.

It doesn't need to be just a test batch because it could also be a start for a yeast collection. I'm guilty of doing one gallon test batches for starters.

Do you remember reading if anyone tried fermenting it a little warmer to try to draw out the banana?

I don't recall anyone saying they got banana from it.

I was just reading through a bunch of the posts, seems that people that fermented with it shorter time periods got better flavour out of it. I didn't take any notes on the actual numbers of reports, but it also seemed that those that fermented on the low side for the strain got worse tastes. I've got little control over my ferm temps right now and it was going at 71F this morning, decent smell coming out too. The straing is supposedly good up to 75, so maybe that is the secret to the better flavour.

This batch turned into one big experiment