What is that keg doing in Goodwill?

What is that Keg doing at a Goodwill store

Good article and a reminder that ALL kegs are property of a brewery. If you see a keg for sale on Craigslist or in a Goodwill store, it IS stolen. Return all kegs to the store, distributor or brewery.

You are purchasing the contents of the keg. Not the keg itself.

That is, unless they are decomitoned right. Otherwise everyone brewing with keggles is breaking the law.

They may have assumed it was a retired keg. Not all kegs out there are stolen.

Actually, most keggles out there ARE stolen. If the keg still has the name of the brewery embossed on it, it remains the property of the brewery.

Breweries DO NOT EVER sell kegs to scrapyards. MillerCoors and ABInBev have NEVER sold any decommissioned kegs.

Keg Shrinkage goes Viral

Please read the first article in the linked document.

Please read what craft brewers have to say about keg shrinkage

ProBrewer posts on Keg Shrinkage

While reading the article, I had a question come to mind. If a brewery puts the following label on all their kegs, “Property of Silver City Brewery. If found please return. Resale of this keg by a non-licensed entity is a crime and punishable by law,” and it is in fact a crime punishable by law, then why did the Seattle police department refuse to investigate the keg that was sold by goodwill?

Wayne1 said:

Actually, most keggles out there ARE stolen. If the keg still has the name of the brewery embossed on it, it remains the property of the brewery.

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What? This isn't true at all. Breweries go out of business and their kegs get sold to the public all the time. They don't sit there with angle grinders scraping off the (now defunct) brewery name, either. That's like saying all corny kegs are property of Pepsi or Coca-Cola if it has a sticker on it.

I have to agree that kegs are sold off all the time.

My brewing techniques books have ads all over for bulk keg buys and single keg buys. And, breweries sell off warped or dented kegs too.

I do agree, that many times a commercial keg is commondeered for personal use and is not legal.

It's like a firearm, if u have documentation, then it's all good!

There have not been that many brewery failures. Most keggle pictures. I see posted on this site have AB or Microstar kegs. I have even seen New Belgium kegs. The kegs are property of the brewery

Please look at http://www.kegreturn.com/ set up by the Brewers Association

Here is the suggested Code of Conduct for Homebrewers:


Homebrewers

Breweries that you know and love are counting on you to play a huge role in solving a very real, very expensive problem which hurts the craft beer movement and brewers large and small.

Use KegReturn.com to help you contact a brewery whose keg you currently hold, or to let them know about the location of their strays. KegReturn.com was created as a tool to help all beer industry stakeholders do the right thing.

Breweries almost never sell kegs; kegs become strays for many reasons, but remain brewery property.

Deposits paid do not convey title to a keg; kegs always remain brewery property.

Repurposing a keg for homebrewing is illegal unless the keg was purchased legally from the brewery or from a keg manufacturer.

Always insist that repurposed kegs you purchase for homebrewing are accompanied with clear title indicating the seller and you both came to own the keg legally.

LovesIPA said:

While reading the article, I had a question come to mind. If a brewery puts the following label on all their kegs, “Property of Silver City Brewery. If found please return. Resale of this keg by a non-licensed entity is a crime and punishable by law,” and it is in fact a crime punishable by law, then why did the Seattle police department refuse to investigate the keg that was sold by goodwill?

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From the article:


So the Goodwill Keg did not have that sticker.

weirdboy said:

What? This isn't true at all. Breweries go out of business and their kegs get sold to the public all the time. They don't sit there with angle grinders scraping off the (now defunct) brewery name, either. That's like saying all corny kegs are property of Pepsi or Coca-Cola if it has a sticker on it.

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And this is why places like Goodwill should not be required to contact potentially defunct breweries to see if this particular keg is stolen, decommissioned, etc. It would be great if they did, but requiring them implies penalty for not complying.

Also, someone in the comments for that article made a parallel to deposits for car rentals and that shouldn't imply that the renter can just have it for the deposit price. Car rentals work off access to valid credit cards as proof of identity and a paper trail in case it's stolen/damaged (and charging the card in the case of damages).

I have some Keg Title Insurance I'd like to sell you.

Wayne1 said:

Actually, most keggles out there ARE stolen. If the keg still has the name of the brewery embossed on it, it remains the property of the brewery.

Breweries DO NOT EVER sell kegs to scrapyards. MillerCoors and ABInBev have NEVER sold any decommissioned kegs.

Keg Shrinkage goes Viral

Please read the first article in the linked document.

Please read what craft brewers have to say about keg shrinkage

ProBrewer posts on Keg Shrinkage

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Funny u say that cause we jus saved 30 kegs from the scrap yard that a local Budweiser distributer was told to get rid of.. So they do scrap them and they dont always remove the brewery name either i have 3 legally purchased keggles.. One crom miami brewing co., one from petes wicked ales, and a busch keg.. All names are clear as day and 2 in pretty good cosmetic condition.. But all legally purchased

Wayne1 said:

What is that Keg doing at a Goodwill store

Good article and a reminder that ALL kegs are property of a brewery. If you see a keg for sale on Craigslist or in a Goodwill store, it IS stolen. Return all kegs to the store, distributor or brewery.

You are purchasing the contents of the keg. Not the keg itself.

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unless you purchased the keg.

I see kegs on Craigs all the time, not stolen I'm sure........This whole thing with kegs is just stupid. I've heard the argument over & over, It's just a piece of metal..........

geoffm33 said:

From the article:

As for Silver City Brewing, Kurt tells me that all of their kegs will soon have a sticker that says, in essence:

“Property of Silver City Brewery. If found please return. Resale of this keg by a non-licensed entity is a crime and punishable by law.”​

So the Goodwill Keg did not have that sticker.

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The absence or presence of a sticker stating what the law is does not change the law. Either it's illegal, or it's not.

It's like a sign in a store stating that you are responsible for anything you break. It does not change the law (you're not, BTW).

LovesIPA said:

The absence or presence of a sticker stating what the law is does not change the law. Either it's illegal, or it's not.

It's like a sign in a store stating that you are responsible for anything you break. It does not change the law (you're not, BTW).

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I'm not disputing that at all.

Here is the quote I replied to:

LovesIPA said:

While reading the article, I had a question come to mind. If a brewery puts the following label on all their kegs, “Property of Silver City Brewery. If found please return. Resale of this keg by a non-licensed entity is a crime and punishable by law,” and it is in fact a crime punishable by law, then why did the Seattle police department refuse to investigate the keg that was sold by goodwill?

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The quote assumes that the label was present, therefore the police should have investigated. But the label was not present.

You are correct though, that it does not change the law.

some deposit kegs have been stolen. the idea that breweries never sell kegs is way out there. when CDA became River city brewing (local) they sold/scrapped/auctioned every keg they had with the old name.
keg leasers and breweries are starting to switch to scannable rfid kegs and caring less and less about older sankes (converting costs more then new production)

20 years ago there were coca cola cops with inventory clipboards sniffing around restaurants. Today, if you hand delivered a "property of Coca Cola" embossed pin lock to a distributor, they'd cite you for littering .

We're just talking about kegs with brewery labels right? Not all kegs in general. Post was a bit confusing to me. I also find it hard to believe that no brewery anywhere ever sells or decommissions a keg or goes out of business and liquidated them to the public.

dstranger99 said:

I see kegs on Craigs all the time, not stolen I'm sure........This whole thing with kegs is just stupid. I've heard the argument over & over, It's just a piece of metal..........

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If you see a kegs on Craigslist, it IS stolen.

Kegs remain the property of the brewery. NOT the distributor, not the retailer, not the people drinking the beer.

The small deposit does not cover the cost of a keg. If the keg is not returned to the brewery, it is stolen. Period.
While there may be some legal kegs out there still with some brewery's name on it, the majority of kegs are not.

If you do not have a receipt from the brewery, it should be considered stolen goods.

Kegs cost a brewery $120-150.00 each if bought in quantity. Small breweries cannot afford to have 20% of their inventory stolen yearly.

Please check before you buy a keg to find out where it came from. DO NOT buy stolen merchandise. Everyone wants a deal but when you buy a stolen keg you are hurting the entire brewing industry.

Wayne1 said:

If you see a kegs on Craigslist, it IS stolen.

Kegs remain the property of the brewery. NOT the distributor, not the retailer, not the people drinking the beer.

The small deposit does not cover the cost of a keg. If the keg is not returned to the brewery, it is stolen. Period.
While there may be some legal kegs out there still with some brewery's name on it, the majority of kegs are not.

If you do not have a receipt from the brewery, it should be considered stolen goods.

Kegs cost a brewery $120-150.00 each if bought in quantity. Small breweries cannot afford to have 20% of their inventory stolen yearly.

Please check before you buy a keg to find out where it came from. DO NOT buy stolen merchandise. Everyone wants a deal but when you buy a stolen keg you are hurting the entire brewing industry.

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This is just not true as a blanket statement: If you see a kegs on Craigslist, it IS stolen

Many kegs on Craigslist I'm sure were not obtained legally but others were. Also, if this was that big of a deal to breweries then they would be pursuing these postings on Craigslist and eBay. I'm not saying its right to ignore a law but there are a lot of laws on the books that are not enforced. Bottom line I don't agree that this is really hurting the "entire brewing industry" that is way overblown. If it were then they would be doing something about it.

bd2xu said:

This is just not true as a blanket statement: If you see a kegs on Craigslist, it IS stolen

Many kegs on Craigslist I'm sure were not obtained legally but others were. Also, if this was that big of a deal to breweries then they would be pursuing these postings on Craigslist and eBay. I'm not saying its right to ignore a law but there are a lot of laws on the books that are not enforced. Bottom line I don't agree that this is really hurting the "entire brewing industry" that is way overblown. If it were then they would be doing something about it.

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They are.

Please read this article I linked to earlier

Keg Shrinkage

Here are highlights from the article:

Sierra Nevada founder Ken Grossman, arguably the grandfather of the craft industry, said this to BBD yesterday:

"Keg theft has been a major thorn in my side for years. I have been on a warpath over this issue on behalf of our brewery and the industry. It's bad enough seeing our kegs stolen and misappropriated for use as furniture in frat houses, homebrew kettles, or just plain scrapped for a few dollars. Ebay and CraigsList often have stolen kegs listed for sale for a $15-$20 that might have been left over from a party or stolen from behind a bar or restaurant. It's a real issue for our industry, with new kegs costing over $100.

"Recently, I have been outraged at seeing our kegs being used by other breweries. In some cases there is no way they were mistakenly filled. They had obviously known the kegs had been stolen since they had attempted to cover up our embossed name and our identification colors had been painted over. In one case, they took the effort to grind off our name and use "Bondo" to try and obfuscate the evidence. There are even YouTube videos showing how to remove keg valves on illegally obtained kegs (some are mine), so they can be used for all sorts of other purposes. We have never sold any Sankey style half barrel kegs, so I know they weren't obtained legally. When I can track them down, I have personally called and unloaded on these brewers. Stealing from anyone is not OK." Bam!

"The fact is, you buy a keg with another brewer's name on it, the chances are it was probably stolen at some point in the supply chain, usually at retail."

From KegReturn.com

How much does keg loss cost craft brewers annually?

According to Brewers Association member brewery data, keg loss costs every brewer between $0.46 and $1.37 per-barrel of annual keg production. This varies depending on the size of the brewery, percent of beer produced that is sold in kegs and other factors. Assuming 2011 craft beer sales of 11.5 million barrels, that is a total direct capital charge to craft brewers of $5.3 million and $15.8 million annually.

The indirect costs of product outages at wholesale and at retail caused by a shortened keg float are likely far higher.

Why is keg scrapping and the illegal traffic of kegs such a big issue?

Many brewers have observed both the public and other brewers scrapping kegs that don’t belong to them. Depending on the current price of scrap stainless steel, the scrap value of a keg may be substantially more than the deposit cost. If a keg is in fact stolen, the scrap value is pure profit.

Many brewers favor legislation prohibiting the sale of kegs by anyone other than the titled owner, and in fact several states have such laws in place. Ebay and Craigslist routinely list kegs for sale, often explicitly showing the owners label or stamp. These kegs are destined to become furniture, barbecue grills, brewing equipment, or other uses not intended by the legal owner. The Brewers Association plans outreach to companies that facilitate the sale of kegs, requesting that they notify sellers that they must have legal title to kegs they sell.

Most brewers will request that other brewers simply provide them the opportunity to pay for the return of their kegs, with a phone call or an email. One brewer has suggested the development of a standardized email address: [email protected] could help. Imprinting this information on each keg might simplify the notification process enough to help grease the wheels.

mkringii said:

Funny u say that cause we jus saved 30 kegs from the scrap yard that a local Budweiser distributer was told to get rid of.. So they do scrap them and they dont always remove the brewery name either

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lots of detail missing here. the local distributor might not have had permission from HQ to get rid of them. "get rid of them" usually means "destroy", not just "get them out of my sight" - they don't want their old kegs floating around. just because they are intercepted from their intended fate (destruction) doesn't mean everything is OK.

mkringii said:

i have 3 legally purchased keggles.. One crom miami brewing co., one from petes wicked ales, and a busch keg.. All names are clear as day and 2 in pretty good cosmetic condition.. But all legally purchased

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i don't doubt that your kegs are legal, but a lot of people hide behind "legally purchased" without knowing if the kegs were legally sourced. as someone mentioned above, if you buy a stolen car from a used car dealer, you have still bought stolen property and are liable to have it seized and returned to the rightful owner.

amandabab said:

20 years ago there were coca cola cops with inventory clipboards sniffing around restaurants. Today, if you hand delivered a "property of Coca Cola" embossed pin lock to a distributor, they'd cite you for littering .

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right, but coca cola made the decision to decommission the kegs. it wasn't made for them, by thousands of people stealing the kegs, against their will. some day breweries might switch to another keg format, at which point the market will be flooded with sanke kegs... because the breweries decided to sell them off.

silly thread.

Gah. Keg police. Nothing that anyone says is going to make anyone throw out their keggle in the name of doing the "right" thing. People have always stolen, and always will. Unfortunately.

Kegs sold on Craigslist are not ALWAYS stolen. Just last year I bought 35 decommissioned kegs from a AVL local brewery and every one of them were sold on Craigslist.

We have a slightly different problem in SC... When you buy a keg and pay the deposit (I think it's $50-60 now?), there is a tag attached to the keg and it must stay with the keg. Additionally, the retailer wants to see your SALES RECEIPT when you return the keg to get the deposit back. If either the tag or the receipt are missing, you will NOT get a refund.

Often times, those are the kegs that you will see on Craigslist.

Some kegs on Craigslist are legit, I have no doubt. Some aren't.

http://www.lawserver.com/law/state/south-carolina/sc-code/south_carolina_code_61-4-1920

MC

Blanket statements about all kegs being sold are stolen is bs. I live less that 2 miles from a brewery that was selling kegs to home brew club so we can convert them to keggles. In fact I'm pretty sure the brewery sells already converted kegs.

If you're buying a keg to convert, you should be aware that there are a lot out there that are stolen, and if you feel like someone is selling a stolen keg, move on and find one that you're sure is not stolen.

Misplaced_Canuck said:

We have a slightly different problem in SC... When you buy a keg and pay the deposit (I think it's $50-60 now?), there is a tag attached to the keg and it must stay with the keg. Additionally, the retailer wants to see your SALES RECEIPT when you return the keg to get the deposit back. If either the tag or the receipt are missing, you will NOT get a refund.

Often times, those are the kegs that you will see on Craigslist.

Some kegs on Craigslist are legit, I have no doubt. Some aren't.

http://www.lawserver.com/law/state/south-carolina/sc-code/south_carolina_code_61-4-1920

MC

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Of all the people to blame for major keg loss, in my opinion breweries should point the finger at the distributors. Often the distributor will not take back kegs with out receipts etc. Breweries shouldn't expect consumers to take a loss because they can't return the keg to a distributor. I think personally this is why many of the illegal kegs turn up on craigslist. People saying "I can't get my deposit back from the distributor, so maybe I can still get my money back on craigslist" They are still in the wrong, but the distributor kind of forced their hand.

I know I have a 1/6 barrel, and a 1/4 barrel that I cannot for life of me find a place that will take them, so they sit in my garage waiting until I end up at distributor that will take them back. Could I contact the breweries, maybe, but I don't have time to sit on the phone with AB until I get in contact with the guy who can give me directions to get the keg back to them(which will probably cause me great inconvenience).

If you're going to steal a keg, steal one from AB. If they have money for frivolous lawsuits against microbreweries, then I think they can spare the $100 keg for a REAL (home)brewer!

Misplaced_Canuck said:

We have a slightly different problem in SC... When you buy a keg and pay the deposit (I think it's $50-60 now?), there is a tag attached to the keg and it must stay with the keg. Additionally, the retailer wants to see your SALES RECEIPT when you return the keg to get the deposit back. If either the tag or the receipt are missing, you will NOT get a refund.

Often times, those are the kegs that you will see on Craigslist.

Some kegs on Craigslist are legit, I have no doubt. Some aren't.

http://www.lawserver.com/law/state/south-carolina/sc-code/south_carolina_code_61-4-1920

MC

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Same problem in Washington. Seams like its the distributors making the problem worse. Why would I return a keg if I accidently lost the receipt and I'm not going to get my deposit back. Might as well try to sell it to recoup that deposit. I have never done this, and probably won't cause I keep my receipts, but I wouldn't blame the person I would blame the system.

dstranger99 said:

I see kegs on Craigs all the time, not stolen I'm sure........This whole thing with kegs is just stupid. I've heard the argument over & over, It's just a piece of metal..........

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If they are not returned to the brewery, they are stolen. A car is just a piece of metal, too.

Denny said:

If they are not returned to the brewery, they are stolen. A car is just a piece of metal, too.

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A car requires a title.......

brokebucket said:

silly thread.

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+1

Wayne1 said:

If you see a kegs on Craigslist, it IS stolen.

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So if I sell all of my legally obtained kegs on Craigslist, they are all stolen?

Get real. And get off your pedastal.

Denny said:

If they are not returned to the brewery, they are stolen. A car is just a piece of metal, too.

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I got a keg of Black Cat Porter from Mac and Jacks for my wedding. If I had lost the receipt and the distributor would not take it back, no way in hell I'm driving for 5 hours to drop off a keg. I don't care if at that point its stolen. There is the way it should be and there is the way it is. A system that places all responsability on the user is always going to have problems.

I'm sorry but this is a stupid thread. All I hear is whining. If you buy or obtain a keg from anywhere but the brewery or distributor you are not a felon and the keg is not stolen. Lets focus our energy on making useful threads that everyone can benefit from and stop the whining.

I'm not going to support theft, but it does seem over the top to suggest that every used keg that is offered for sale is stolen.

Can't I buy a new keg from some place like this?
http://www.beveragefactory.com/draftbeer/commercial/kegs/index.html?utm_source=msn&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Kegs&utm_term=commercial+beer+kegs&CAPCID=2079013882&CA_6C15C=1831596724

and assuming that I did buy it, could I not sell it legally? I didn't see anything to suggest that they omly sell to the trade.

I'm sure if I search I can find other suppliers that will sell retail.

I'm not supporting theft either but I think this topic has been beaten to death. If the breweries cared that much about it, they would make you leave a deposit for the replacement cost of the keg.

zach976 said:

I'm not supporting theft either but I think this topic has been beaten to death. If the breweries cared that much about it, they would make you leave a deposit for the replacement cost of the keg.

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Ah, but the problem with the deposit is that the deposit amount is set by the state- NOT by the brewery! If a keg cost $150 for the brewery to replace, in Michigan they can still only get $50 for a deposit. That's set by state law.

I do agree that this has been beaten to death though!

Yooper said:

Ah, but the problem with the deposit is that the deposit amount is set by the state- NOT by the brewery! If a keg cost $150 for the brewery to replace, in Michigan they can still only get $50 for a deposit. That's set by state law.

I do agree that this has been beaten to death though!

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Well, that is interesting. Beer lobbies are pretty powerful politically. I wonder why they don't work harder to correct this governmental tampering. If this was left up to free market economics the problem would be solved pretty easily I would imagine.