The BIG upgrade

For the most part, I think I've got the search feature down, so I'm less likely to ask somthing that hasn't been covered in either the wiki or here in the beginners forum.

So here's my big question. I still think I'm a beginner by a long shot, but I am REALLY enjoying the process, kit, the brew, etc of homebrewing and expect it'll remain in the litany of hobbies I pursue till the big keg in the sky ferments me to the top (or equally likely I am syphoned down to the bottom of the trub. That said, I need some real thought on how to upgrade kit sensibly so as to avoid the upgrade by increments I've suffered in every other hobby, sport, musical instrument, HiFi system, etc I have experienced in my life (feel free to "like" if you still have your old component HiFi system...).

1. Should I just dig in and buy a conical for better light control, fermenting, CO2 infusion, yeast saving, etc? If so, where, how many, to start?
2. Should I anticipate needing a better, bigger brew pot?
3. Plate chillers? How many, what kind?
4. CO2, keg kit? Corny kit?

I realize a lot of this has to do with where I want to go, so I'll express it as best I can: I see myself in 5-years as a mid- to low-range brewer, producing on average 5-gallons a month and producing regular seasonals. I see myself wanting "clean" systems, i.e. minimal impact on the familys live/smell space, but will likely continue to have a man cave I can deck out with whatever I need w/o interference from bands of ravaging, marauding children, but not with a basement playground to set up a massive brewery.

My gear so far:
2X glass carboys
1X 5 gal bucket
1X 5 gal bottling bucket
1X copper wort chiller (bought on you alls good advice this weekend)
And all the other junk you all would expect (hand capper, scrubbers, syphon, etc).

I guess I'm looking for advice (as much or as little) on how can I get the right, mid range gear now so I don't end up littering the cave with a bunch of half-steps between here and my "final" set up (also realizing there will always be something cool I might want to upgrade too later).

My credit card can suffer about $1,500 to $2k

What MUST I have, and what SHOULD I have. Thanks in advance for all your advice (and any sarcasm is also appreciated

If you're going to invest a chunk of cash in improving your brews, by far the best value is in equipment to control your fermentation temperatures. That will yield the best dollar to better beer ratio. Think kegerator, keezer, fermentation fridge with temp controller, etc.

I'm a newb, and I have only made one batch, and I'm on my way outside to brew up my second. But I can say this. I think you will love kegging! make sure you get a chester freezer and temp control or similar too though. That will add to the cost of course. I bottled some beers from the keg which was easy enough, but what a hassle it was cleaning all those bottels filling and capping...

One things with getting a conical, how will you regulate fermentation temps with it? if you have a room you constantly run AC to that would work, or maybe a basement with a constant temp, but you said you don't have one. I leave my carboys in another chest freezer to regulate fermentation temps, but I have no way to do this with a conical so I doubt I will ever own one, unless I'm building a brewing room onto the house (In my dreams I would do this, but I doubt they will ever come true).

Things I might suggest investing in if need be from my research would be:
1) Something better to control your fermentation temps.
2) Pre-chiller for your wort chiller (basically just another copper coil). I built one in a few minutes yesterday, simply took the copper coil out of the packaging and stretched it out, then used a corny keg to re-size the coil...Done.
3) CO2 to make the process more enjoyable, but this could be significant cost:
chest freezer, dual regulator, manifold, Co2 tank, taps, temp controller, lines etc. It's relatively simple to setup, i'd go with kegging and maybe a Keezer build before a conical myself.

also please anyone correct this if I am mistaken but it's just my 2 cents from a newb.

I'll give this a shot:

1. No on the conical.
2. Yes, decide now if you will go with a 5-6 gallon batch, a 10 gallon batch, or a 15.5. Personally think 5-6 is the way to go with what you said you like to brew and your style.
3. Possible, but if you are doing a 5 gallon batch, your wort chiller should be fine.
4. Definitely CO2 and keg setup for your mancave.

Must-Haves-

First things first. Fermentation control. Go buy a 7 cubic foot chest freezer from Lowe's or Home Depot. Choose whichever store has them the cheapest and wait for the sale, sometime within the next month, there will be one on sale there from one of the stores. These chest freezers will lock in your fermentation temps and improve your beers immensely. They will fit 2 6 gallon carboys at one time.

Wait for any of these to drop under $199

http://www.homedepot.com/Appliances-Refrigeration-Freezers-Ice-Makers-Chest-Freezers/h_d1/N-5yc1vZc3nr/R-203547578/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&storeId=10051

This one is on sale for 189.99
Holiday 7 cu ft Chest Freezer (White) I can't link there Lowe's doesn't allow.

Also they sell the GE version.

You can also check Sam's, Costco, or any other store that sells these. Craigslist also possible, but you have to be lucky. Your price point is anywhere south of $200 with free shipping. If you buy instore at Lowe's, stop by a US Post Office branch on the way and ask for a change of address pack and take the 10% coupon to lowes with you.

2. Temp control for chest freezer. You can buy an expensive one, or make your own. This is the EBay URL for the DIY version: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=temperature+controller+110v&_sacat=See-All-Categories

There is a thread here on the HBT that explains how to build a temp control, or you can buy one. Here is one that some people like.


3. CO2 setup. Try KegWorks for all-in-one setups You can piece together a setup for around $750 bucks.

What you'll need-

Another chest freezer! Somewhere around 14.4 cubic feet. Again, wait for sale and use 10% coupon or search CL.
Cornelius kegs (ball or pin lock)
A #5 or #10 CO2 tank (do an exchange at your LHBS or gas distributor)
CO2 lines and beer lines
CO2 regulator
Faucets, shanks, and handles

4. Mash Tun- Search around for a 10 gallon rubbermaid cooler mash tun thread on here and make yourself a mashtun, or buy one from your LHBS.

5. Yeast Starter Stir Plate- Make sure you get the best yeast starters possible. DIY stir plate or buy one. This will boost your yeast levels to levels needed to make great beer. Check out this one and there are others scattered around the internet.


That site has the stir plate, and you can add on a 2,000mL flask and the stir bar is included in the price. 45 bucks plus 20 for the flask.

I think that is about $1300 bucks or so. You can fill this out the rest of the budget with other cool stuff.

Double Post

costco has 7.1 cuft chest freezer for $169,
You can get a jhonson controlls digital temp controller off amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00368D6JA/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
I don't think the kegging stuff should be that expensive. Even with a fancy regulator.
http://stores.kegconnection.com/Detail.bok?no=216

Stirplate above is a great idea! ^^

That 1300 was the total price for everything, including the 2 new chest freezers. That's a good deal on Costco, is it the Haier? The most expensive is going to be all the things going into the kegerator. Faucets, hoses, regulator, disconnects, etc.

1500 to 2k?
I spend way too much on my hobbies. But I'd bet I've got less than $600 (and only use 60% of) in home brew equipment so far (one year, 70 gallons)
I say go cheap, go with minimum requirements, as you go along, you will figure out what you need to make you a happy brewer. Craigs list is where people go when they need equipment that some one else spent too much on, and were disappointed with the results of. Check Craig's list
No sarcasm here, sorry.

My fermentation chamber which is built into my garage under my work bench cost me about 400 to build. My keezer which has 5 taps cost me close to 600 to build if I recall correctly. Best 1000 bucks I've ever spent. Fermentation chamber is a must if you want to make consistently good beer. Kegging is a must if you want to make lots of consisently good beer

Wow $2000! I could build my system several times over for that. You sound like you brew about as much as I do, usually 1 or 2 5 gal batches per month. I use a 10 gal igloo cooler as a mash tun with a straight screen, cost about $40 to build since I got the cooler for $3 at a yard sale. I use a turkey fryer for heating strike water and boiling and an extra 5 gal stock pot for gathering runnings while I heat sparge water. Total of about $60 bucks there. I built a fermentation chamber around a cube mini fridge, total cost around $75 bucks and it holds 2 buckets or three carboys. I don't have a temp controller, I've had good success dialing in temp with the built in control. I bought 2 kegerators on Craigslist for $350 between the two of them. Those and my 6 kegs are by far my biggest expense Each can hold 3 cornies. One is my serving fridge, the other is my lagering chamber. I built a stir plate with computer parts I had lying around and spent $25 for a flask and a stir bar. You can dial I a pretty decent system that can brew consistently great beer for way under your listed budget and save all that green for ingredients for your first dozen or so batches.

Perhaps you could consider which part of the process gives you the most grief and go from there. Do you have a hard time fermenting at a particular temp? Do you hate bottling? Put your first efforts into resolving whatever the answer is to that question.

Save up and pay cash....boo credit says this Dave Ramsey addict

I sold random crap around my house on Craigslist and garage sales to pay for my brewing hobby

Man cave brewer here. I got a great starter kit with 5gal glass carboy. Added a 6.5gal firm bucket. Outside of a good kit the best thing I did from the start was a firm chamber using a Jonson controller and small chest freezer . I brew 5gal batches "kits,extract" and I'm very happy with it. I have 4 cases in the bottle and a batch in the chamber. 5gal extract batches are more than enough for me. there are some "tweaks " to my brewing I will do. But a lot of it doesn't cost a lot of money.

The biggest improvement you can buy/make is keeping your fermintation temps in check.

I agree that fermentation control is the way to go, and I second (third or fourth...) the suggestions for getting a chest freezer for this. However, since you're spending the money anyway, I'd suggested getting something other than the Johnson controller. While it is good and simple, it can't give you heat control as well as cool. If you really want good control over your ferm temp (especially if you live in a space that might have a cold basement) you'll need a controller that can heat, too. I don't actually have a product to which I can refer you, unfortunately.

I use the lightbulb in a paint bucket can and it works perfectly for heat and costs 10 bucks. I use the DIY ebay controller with hot/cold switch on the electricity and plug the light into the hot side. Here is the link for the build: http://brewstands.com/fermentation-heater.html

theveganbrewer said:

I use the lightbulb in a paint bucket can and it works perfectly for heat and costs 10 bucks. I use the DIY ebay controller with hot/cold switch on the electricity and plug the light into the hot side. Here is the link for the build: http://brewstands.com/fermentation-heater.html

Click to expand...

Do you have a link or more specifics on the temp controller with hot/cold switch?

Thanks!

Two controllers I know of work for this. I use the STC-1000 from Ebay. One on amazon for $18.04 and 6.95 shipping, and then the STC-1000 on Ebay for various prices. The ones from Ebay generally come from Asia. The one on Amazon might too. The issue here is making sure they are 110v models and not 220v. The 220v will not work here.

That said, you've got:



From Amazon.

And then you can click here for the search I did on Ebay. The top link is the one. There are other sellers too. It's the STC-1000 model.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=110v+digital+temperature+controller&_sacat=0&_odkw=110v+temperature+controller&_osacat=0



This is the thread on the build out. It does take some patience and a lot of wires, but it's really accurate and works well. Basics are you wire this controller to an electricity jack and wire it so when the probe is over your temp threshold, the power is switched on to the electricity plug that controls the fermentation chamber. Then if it gets too cold, the plug powering the heater turns on.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/stc-1000-ebay-temperature-controller-build-330427/

The Jonson can cool or heat but not both at the same time. Chances are when its too cold "in the basement " to cool. You switch it over to "warming". Simple plug and play controller to work with. Jonson controller and a chest freezer and your done. No wiring needed other than plugging it in and setting the parameters .

Keginf system was a great investment for me. I've got 220 plus a fridge for a two keg system including the kegs. I hated bottling, syphoning 5 gals into a keg and carbing in a couple days is awesome.

You should get a mash tun, after that a turkey fryer. Those are the 2 best things you could get at this point IMO.

Ok All, thanks for some really great suggestions. After being informed by the CINC-House that there was no way in hell I was gonna spend that much anyhow, you all managed to get me out of hot water by basically recommending from $600-$1,000 max to get a kit I could "grow into," and managed to convince the CO that it would save us a ton in the long run. Here's the list you recommended, let me know if you think it's out of order. I'll buy basically down the list as I'm able:

1. Temperature control system (with the most responses being buy:
1a. A Johnson temp/power controller for about $55
1b. A Haier $199 chest freezer from Home Depot
2. Better Brew pot (this one may wait, the 5-Gal stainless I have is in pretty good shape)
3. CO2 set-up. My LHBS priced this at $477 with everything.
4. Yeast starter system. About $50 unless I get the plate too, then just over $100
5. Another chill system (another Haier Freezer, $199)
6. You all recommended the mash tun. Full set up seems for lautering seems to be about $89-$250. I'm gonna wait a bit on this. I'm not sure I'm experienced enough to do lautering or all grain yet. Unless you all think it's likely I'll be wanting to get into it sooner.

This really amounts to a month to month shopping list (if I just buy it by saving up for the items each month).

Did I miss anything? Thanks for the recommendations

Oh, and a conical fermenter in 5-years if I can save the money... seems like everyone agrees those are just for show.

IMO the CO2 keezer/kegerator set-up should be at the very top of your list, because kegs are incredibly convenient and having your own beer on tap is awesome :fro:

Temperature control is super important, but I find it easy to keep my temperature in check using a $5 rubbermaid with water and a frozen 2L every 12 hours. A digital controller and freezer is definitely the way to go eventually but I think you will enjoy your new hobby even more with the co2.

I'd also consider bumping a new pot up on your list, a 5 gal pot for 5 gal batches must be messy, but if it's working for you then

RipUSMC said:

Ok All, thanks for some really great suggestions. After being informed by the CINC-House that there was no way in hell I was gonna spend that much anyhow, you all managed to get me out of hot water by basically recommending from $600-$1,000 max to get a kit I could "grow into," and managed to convince the CO that it would save us a ton in the long run. Here's the list you recommended, let me know if you think it's out of order. I'll buy basically down the list as I'm able:

1. Temperature control system (with the most responses being buy:
1a. A Johnson temp/power controller for about $55
1b. A Haier $199 chest freezer from Home Depot
2. Better Brew pot (this one may wait, the 5-Gal stainless I have is in pretty good shape)
3. CO2 set-up. My LHBS priced this at $477 with everything.
4. Yeast starter system. About $50 unless I get the plate too, then just over $100
5. Another chill system (another Haier Freezer, $199)
6. You all recommended the mash tun. Full set up seems for lautering seems to be about $89-$250. I'm gonna wait a bit on this. I'm not sure I'm experienced enough to do lautering or all grain yet. Unless you all think it's likely I'll be wanting to get into it sooner.

This really amounts to a month to month shopping list (if I just buy it by saving up for the items each month).

Did I miss anything? Thanks for the recommendations

Oh, and a conical fermenter in 5-years if I can save the money... seems like everyone agrees those are just for show.

Click to expand...

RipUSMC said:

1. Temperature control system (with the most responses being buy:
1a. A Johnson temp/power controller for about $55
1b. A Haier $199 chest freezer from Home Depot
2. Better Brew pot (this one may wait, the 5-Gal stainless I have is in pretty good shape)
3. CO2 set-up. My LHBS priced this at $477 with everything.
4. Yeast starter system. About $50 unless I get the plate too, then just over $100
5. Another chill system (another Haier Freezer, $199)
6. You all recommended the mash tun. Full set up seems for lautering seems to be about $89-$250. I'm gonna wait a bit on this. I'm not sure I'm experienced enough to do lautering or all grain yet. Unless you all think it's likely I'll be wanting to get into it sooner.

Click to expand...

1. YES. IMHO a temperature controlled fermentation chamber is one of the biggest improvement. BIG ++++ for this.
2. MAYBE. If your happy with the 5gallon pot you have now, then stick with it. A larger pot will allow you to do full boils and expand into larger brews. Also a larger pot will allow you to grow into All Grain (AG). I would move this to #4.
3. YES. Being able to get the exact amount of CO2 into a brew will push you into the next level from great beer to amazing beer. I think this should be #2.
4. BIG YES. Starters are a must. I just recently started using a stirplate and my starters are stronger and also ready faster.
5. MAYBE. I would pass on this until you feel it is needed. I just increased to my 2nd refrigeration unit to keep all my hops, yeast bank, and to cold crash my starters. It makes my life a lot easier not having to make room in my normal fridge.
6. NOT NOW. You can get your feet wet with AG by doing brew in a bag. Look up BIAB and you will see how easy AG can be.

I think you are on the right track with your list, all of those things are great places to start. In regard to a conical..... I have brewed for 15 years or so. I have used buckets, carboys, better bottles, V-vessel conical fermenters...... almost everything under the sun. I really thought about getting a SS conical a couple years ago. But, I did the math and figured I could just go with using buckets and replace them periodically forever, and never spend the same amt. of money. Buckets are super easy to use. By far the easiest to clean (the #1 requirement of a fermenter). Easy to move, store and transport. They work great. The only down side to a bucket is you can't "see" your beer fermenting. But, after a few years, that is not such a big deal. So, after using all kinds of fermenters, I am back to buckets. Personally, I would put a conical a long way down my list - unless I just had money I did not know what to do with.

The one thing I'd change on your updated list it to make it a priority to get a bigger brewpot, and maybe a bigger burner.

Temperature control is still #1, but I'd make a full boil #2 along with a way to chill it (an immersion chiller is fine). There is no point kegging beer if it's not excellent beer.

For a yeast starter, right now you can use a growler or 1 gallon glass jug and cover it with sanitized foil for $0. You don't need a $50 yeast starter set up.

Kegging can be started for about $250 (Your LHBS saying $477 seems outrageously high), and you can surf Craigslist for freezers and fridges as they come up everyday for $50.

I'd consider starting to work toward some back saving techniques as you build your system. If you buy a pot and burner, for example, make sure it's something than can work with a brewstand later, with some pumps. You may not mind pouring boiling water right now, but it does get a bit hard after a few years. Eventually having everything set up on a brewstand is a nice goal.

Braufessor said:

Personally, I would put a conical a long way down my list - unless I just had money I did not know what to do with.

Click to expand...

Another thing to think about- a conical may not fit in your typical fermentation chamber. Temperature control is critical, so if you don't have a place to hold a conical and keep it at 65 degrees, it would be useless. Also, I usually have more than one beer in fermenters at any given time, so unless you're buying a couple and then having a walk-in cooler to store them in, it may not be as functional as regular carboys/buckets.

Yup, temp control and kegging. You can make awesome beer in caboys and buckets - as long as you can control temp.

Other important bits and pieces - good, big kettle, good burner.