Closed-system pressurized fermentation technique!

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What do you guys think about pressure fermentations? Time for a poll.

  • I've done it and I liked it just fine!

  • I've done it, nothing wrong with it, but prefer normal fermentation techniques.

  • I've done it, hate it, and never will do it again!

  • I've never done it, but it is on my list!

  • I've never done anything. I only brew beer in my mind.


Results are only viewable after voting.
Hello,
Is there an easy way to remove the co2 from fermenting samples to check gravity with a hydrometer?

What differences are seen in gravity measurements between carbed samples and flat samples?

I read in a different related post that filtering through a coffee filter will remove co2? seems very odd to me...

thanks Kevin
 
I fill to the weld line, use fermcap, and typically get about 2-6oz of blowoff. Cleanup is actually pretty easy with a water-trap between the keg and the spunding valve.

just reading through some older pages of this thread from a few months back, and i'm about to ferment a batch where i want to fill my corny as high as possible.
sorry if this is detailed elsewhere, you can maybe point me to it, but could you describe this water trap? or if others use something (pressurized) between keg and spunding valve? sounds like exactly what i need. thanks
 
just reading through some older pages of this thread from a few months back, and i'm about to ferment a batch where i want to fill my corny as high as possible.
sorry if this is detailed elsewhere, you can maybe point me to it, but could you describe this water trap? or if others use something (pressurized) between keg and spunding valve? sounds like exactly what i need. thanks

Sure thing. A picture of mine is in here somewhere, but in this post our erudite leader has a picture of his. It's a better picture anyway. All you need is a standard plastic water filter housing, which you can usually find for around 20-30 bucks, plus whatever connections you want to use. Works a dream.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/cl...ation-technique-44344/index2.html#post4480005
 
What I use is a second cornie keg. Hose from gas to liquid. With spunding valve on second keg.
 
Decided to finally give this a try and so far it seems really simple and could really speed things along with getting from fermenting into the keezer.

I do have a few questions. Does anyone ferment with a single spunding valve but multiple kegs in series? I brew 10 gallon batches and have started fermenting in corneys. Since this is an experiment for me, I only have one spunding valve and used it on only one of the kegs. The other simply has a blow off tube. Can I put the kegs in series with the one valve? Do I need to remove the liquid out diptube?
 
Well. Put a 11 gallon Blonde in my brewhemoth. Set the spunding valve pressure to the initial 2 lbs (verified setting with pressurized CO2). Can't wait to see how she turns out and learn how/where to set my spunding valve pressure throughout the ferment. :rockin:
 
Peter_h said:
Decided to finally give this a try and so far it seems really simple and could really speed things along with getting from fermenting into the keezer.

I do have a few questions. Does anyone ferment with a single spunding valve but multiple kegs in series? I brew 10 gallon batches and have started fermenting in corneys. Since this is an experiment for me, I only have one spunding valve and used it on only one of the kegs. The other simply has a blow off tube. Can I put the kegs in series with the one valve? Do I need to remove the liquid out diptube?

All you need to do is attach both gas ports on your kegs to some sort of manifold with the spunding valve at the end for control of both kegs at the same pressure. I have also wondered about daisy-chaining the kegs together gas on first to liquid on second, and then using the spunding valve on the gas side of the second. But, I don't know how that would work out and it would definitely only work with the same beer.
 
V-Twin said:
Well. Put a 11 gallon Blonde in my brewhemoth. Set the spunding valve pressure to the initial 2 lbs (verified setting with pressurized CO2). Can't wait to see how she turns out and learn how/where to set my spunding valve pressure throughout the ferment. :rockin:

Good times! Let us know how she turns out. I would leave it there until 20% or so from FG and then crank it up to carbonation volumes wanted per temperature of your fermentation. But, that's just me.
 
All you need to do is attach both gas ports on your kegs to some sort of manifold with the spunding valve at the end for control of both kegs at the same pressure. I have also wondered about daisy-chaining the kegs together gas on first to liquid on second, and then using the spunding valve on the gas side of the second. But, I don't know how that would work out and it would definitely only work with the same beer.

Yeah, you'd need to use some kind of water trap in between each one unless you want to dose each downstream keg with upstream yeast. Plus, with any pressure drops you'll be sucking beer into other kegs. I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work in theory, but a simple manifold would be a lot easier and cheaper.
 
just reading through some older pages of this thread from a few months back, and i'm about to ferment a batch where i want to fill my corny as high as possible.
sorry if this is detailed elsewhere, you can maybe point me to it, but could you describe this water trap? or if others use something (pressurized) between keg and spunding valve? sounds like exactly what i need. thanks

I use a keg between my keg and spunding valve for that.


11/21/11 by Mad Scientist Brewhaus, on Flickr
 
http://www.williamsbrewing.com/KEG-PRESSURE-TESTER-WITH-ADJUSTABLE-RELIEF-VALVE-P2880.aspx

Is this what I need to ferment in a corny using this method? I Have a 10 gallon corny keg I think would work good for this. Thanks!

That is the one I bought and am using. 2 comments.

1.) I changed the gauge out for one that reads higher, this one only goes to 15psi. I bought this 0.60 PSI gauge and swapped it out.

2.) The valve does get gummed up and will get stuck if blow off gets into it. Simply unscrew and rinse it out & sanitize again. I used fermcap but still had an issue. I'll probably be modifying this to add a catchment tank inline as others have done.
 
All you need to do is attach both gas ports on your kegs to some sort of manifold with the spunding valve at the end for control of both kegs at the same pressure. I have also wondered about daisy-chaining the kegs together gas on first to liquid on second, and then using the spunding valve on the gas side of the second. But, I don't know how that would work out and it would definitely only work with the same beer.

Yeah, you'd need to use some kind of water trap in between each one unless you want to dose each downstream keg with upstream yeast. Plus, with any pressure drops you'll be sucking beer into other kegs. I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work in theory, but a simple manifold would be a lot easier and cheaper.

Thanks guys.

I already see room for improvement w/ the current experiment. I'll be adding a manifold and catchment tank to the current setup once the current batch is done.
 
That is the one I bought and am using. 2 comments.

1.) I changed the gauge out for one that reads higher, this one only goes to 15psi. I bought this 0.60 PSI gauge and swapped it out.

2.) The valve does get gummed up and will get stuck if blow off gets into it. Simply unscrew and rinse it out & sanitize again. I used fermcap but still had an issue. I'll probably be modifying this to add a catchment tank inline as others have done.

Does the gauge need to go that high?
 
jeepinjeepin said:
Oh, wow. I wasn't expecting that answer.

The literature varies on where yeast is happiest, but I tend to sit near 5 for most of the fermentation the cap up to 25 or so at the end. Certainly there's no trouble at that range.
 
Update: I ended up increasing my pressure on my Blonde from 2 PSI to 7 PSI (@66F) and held it there for the next two days. This AM I checked to see where my gravity was and was surprised to see it had already dropped to 1.010 (OG 1.052 pitched on 1/22 Tuesday PM).
I Increased the spunding valve pressure (to start the ramp) and cranked up the temp by 2F and shook up the fermenter a little to rouse the yeast a bit. I'll keep increasing my temp 1F each day for a few more days. Hope I didn't miss my opportunity (too low gravity) to get full carbonation done at room temp.. Oh well.. I can always finish up the carbonation in my keezer.

It is peoples experience that they see faster fermentation while under pressure?
 
I'm back to my pressure fermenting in a sanke and ran into a problem. My relief valves from grainger don't seem to be releasing anything!

35834d1318482930-closed-system-pressurized-fermentation-technique-variable-pressure-relief-valve-4tk26_as01.jpg


I've done several batches using them and wondering if maybe at some point some wort sealed them up or something? I have two identical ones and both aren't working.

I currently am just manually releasing pressure on the sanke's relief valve to keep it around 5. I am going to take a gravity reading shortly here to see where I am at and maybe can just let it ramp up at this point, but really confused. I try completely opening and closing them without any sound or movement on the psi gauge.

So I soak them in PBW or something?
 
Mine got plugged up good once, and I actually had to take a piece of coat hangar wire to the spring on the inside. Then, run some pbw through and you're good!
 
I am unhappy with all the ones I have bought. I need one that is 100% nylon or polysulphone that has a stainless spring and stainless ball. Mine have all corroded in some form or another. There has to be a cheaper better one out there.
 
Stupid question...could you not make a weighted triclover cap to set on top ora Sanke keg with a seal? Put a 2# weight on it and it should go up to about 6psi. Anything over that it would bump your cap up and burp the extra pressure. No springs, no corrosion. Am I way off track?
 
Stupid question...could you not make a weighted triclover cap to set on top ora Sanke keg with a seal? Put a 2# weight on it and it should go up to about 6psi. Anything over that it would bump your cap up and burp the extra pressure. No springs, no corrosion. Am I way off track?

I've been thinking about something like this too...With some simple machining, you'd get a nice little valve that would burp at your target PSI. Add extra bits of weight to increase the amount of pressure held.

Another advantage over these commercial pieces (besides cleanability) would be knowing exactly where your pressure cap is at at any given moment. More than once I misestimated the number of twists on my valve only to wake up to way more pressure than I had wanted.
 
Stupid question...could you not make a weighted triclover cap to set on top ora Sanke keg with a seal? Put a 2# weight on it and it should go up to about 6psi. Anything over that it would bump your cap up and burp the extra pressure. No springs, no corrosion. Am I way off track?

In theory yes, a weight will keep some pressure inside but it might be hard to calibrate the pressure/weight. It is also missing some of the factors associated with pressurized fermenting.
  1. Being able to monitor and know the pressurization level.
  2. Varying the pressure during different phases.
  3. Keeping the beer under CO2 and pressure from start start of fermentation to kegging.
  4. Being able to pull off samples to test CO2 fermentation progress.
 
In theory yes, a weight will keep some pressure inside but it might be hard to calibrate the pressure/weight. It is also missing some of the factors associated with pressurized fermenting.

[*]Being able to monitor and know the pressurization level.
[*]Varying the pressure during different phases.
[*]Keeping the beer under CO2 and pressure from start start of fermentation to kegging.
[*]Being able to pull off samples to test CO2 fermentation progress.

Add a triclover tee. Put a gauge on the side, clamp the bottom to the keg, and have your weighted cap on top within very loose clamp.
When you want to keg, clamp the cap. Have a racking can plumbed into this rig. same for samples, or add a sample valve to the side of the keg.
 
Add a triclover tee. Put a gauge on the side, clamp the bottom to the keg, and have your weighted cap on top within very loose clamp.
When you want to keg, clamp the cap. Have a racking can plumbed into this rig. same for samples, or add a sample valve to the side of the keg.

I thought you were using a weighted lid just to keep it simple. If you are going to all this trouble, I think the adjustable pressure relief valve is only another few bucks.
 
I thought you were using a weighted lid just to keep it simple. If you are going to all this trouble, I think the adjustable pressure relief valve is only another few bucks.

Weighted lid was to stop the issue people have stated about corroded parts. You don't have to have a triclover tee. You could add a gauge to the cap if you have a tap and die set.
 
I thought about weights like on a pressure cooker before. Don't think it would work well unless temperatures and pressure levels were constant, which they aren't in most of our processes. I just need a 100% stainless version of any one of the products any of us are currently using. Don't know why one isn't out there. Then again at under 60psi nylon or similar would work fine and not corrode or stick. Brass with steel and springs of different metals aren't cutting it for me. Even with the reservoir the sticky mist is a problem. We need a machinist to look into a cheap working product.
 
I am unhappy with all the ones I have bought. I need one that is 100% nylon or polysulphone that has a stainless spring and stainless ball. Mine have all corroded in some form or another. There has to be a cheaper better one out there.

I thought that this McMaster-Carr part # 99045K11 was the top-of-the-line (as noted on this thread). The body is polysulfone and seal is silicone.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/119/490/=lgp47a

I thought that everyone using the water filter housings had no problems with their spunding valves.
 
This is my yeast catcher. Fits between a pint and quart. Last ferment (7psi duration I think) I closed the valve after two weeks and removed the catcher, capped it, and put in fridge. Two weeks later, I attempted an 8L starter. It didn't go at all. On pitching out of the catcher, the yeast seemed darker than it should, and smelled autolyzed. I think the pressure drop from undoing the catcher popped the cells. Current ferment I'm going 3psi. Hope this is enough to keep the krausen down.

On the bright side, the last ferment cleared up in the keg MUCH faster than when I wasn't using the catcher.

yeastcatcher.jpg
 
1MadScientist said:
I thought that this McMaster-Carr part # 99045K11 was the top-of-the-line (as noted on this thread). The body is polysulfone and seal is silicone.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/119/490/=lgp47a

I thought that everyone using the water filter housings had no problems with their spunding valves.

That is the only valve I have not tried yet. If the spring is stainless then it will be exactly what I need, but I have literally worn out the other ones I own. The housing helps keep gunk out or the spunding valve but does nothing about the sticky gas coming out. The sticky gas means soaking to clean and the soaking to clean means the same problems I have run into with previous valves if not of same metals in the solution. A 100% product that could be autoclaved is what I am after in a perfect world. The product you linked to is the best so far, I just feel it too will fail my test for what I desire. I'm trying to get us the best working ideas to steer us to a perfected technique with the best tools, even if they don't exist... yet! I really won't be 100% happy until they make a digital version for complete control, that could possibly fluctuate with temperature. Dreams I know, but someone has the know-how out there.
 
StMarcos said:
This is my yeast catcher. Fits between a pint and quart. Last ferment (7psi duration I think) I closed the valve after two weeks and removed the catcher, capped it, and put in fridge. Two weeks later, I attempted an 8L starter. It didn't go at all. On pitching out of the catcher, the yeast seemed darker than it should, and smelled autolyzed. I think the pressure drop from undoing the catcher popped the cells. Current ferment I'm going 3psi. Hope this is enough to keep the krausen down.

On the bright side, the last ferment cleared up in the keg MUCH faster than when I wasn't using the catcher.

Interesting information. Thank you for contributing this. You could be correct, but I would like to see an experiment with washed yeast from that collector before I chalk it up to autolyzed yeast. It very well could be though that the collector focuses extra pressure hence stress in the yeast due to such a tight location and higher pressure from the technique. I'm curious as to trub flavoring as well. A slow release of pressure is ideal, but I'm not sure how you can do this with your setup. What you have is what I wanted for my own setup though so I am super curious. Hope a washed yeast experiment is in the future to hopefully put this wondering to bed.
 
Could it be that the catcher only caught trub and no/little yeast? I wonder if you were to do a trub dump and then capture another quart if you would have different results.

I find it hard to believe the pressure in the catcher is much higher than the rest of the system. Quick loss of pressure is interesting but doesnt seem to jive with some other stories of people reusing their yeast after a pressure ferment.
 
The housing helps keep gunk out or the spunding valve but does nothing about the sticky gas coming out.

I did not realize the gas coming out was 'sticky', it makes sense though being in a moist environment. What can we put in-between the trap and the spunding valve as a 'drier'? Would a desiccant work?

I brewed Saturday, it was my first 10 gallon batch. I made a simple 'T' gas line to connect 2 corny fermenting kegs to my 'ganged' keg my spunding valve is on. It's working good, but then how do you really know? Both kegs has about the same volume, aeration, gravity, and 1 dry yeast pack. I'll find out later.


2/14/2013 by Mad Scientist Brewhaus, on Flickr


2/16/2013 by Mad Scientist Brewhaus, on Flickr
 
WortMonger said:
I thought about weights like on a pressure cooker before. Don't think it would work well unless temperatures and pressure levels were constant, which they aren't in most of our processes. I just need a 100% stainless version of any one of the products any of us are currently using. Don't know why one isn't out there. Then again at under 60psi nylon or similar would work fine and not corrode or stick. Brass with steel and springs of different metals aren't cutting it for me. Even with the reservoir the sticky mist is a problem. We need a machinist to look into a cheap working product.

True, I forgot about the temp vs pressure change. Well crap.
 
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