Question about putting wort into primary

hey all,

when making an extract+grains beer today, i added the extract to my steeped water and put it on the heat. i forgot to stir. a minute later i noticed a caramel sort of odour, gave the pot a stir and realized a bunch of the malt extract had caramelized onto the bottom. i took it off the heat, gave a rigorous stir and it all dissolved and the gunk was no longer stuck to the bottom. The beer might be a little darker but no major issue thus far..


the wort begins to boil, and i notice black bits floating. i think "great! the burnt sugar can be skimmed off!" so i start skimming...

it isnt burnt sugar, but the black paint/enamel off the bottom of the pot!!

i figured, nothing for it, and got out the big bits, then added my hops. My boil is just about done, and i am wondering: should i pour my wort thru a strainer into my primary to filter out what's left? i am brewing a bitter and this will filter out all my delicious aroma hops. i figure, i already boiled the bits of paint for an hour ... what harm can it do to have it floating around in my beer as it ferments...

what do you guys think??

well, i just put it into the pirmary as normal - not much black stuff. funnily enough, the bottom of the pot looks fine - still black and reflective. maybe it was just burnt sugar after all? im really not sure, as it was very thin, almost film-like strips.

now relaxing, not worrying and drinking a homebrew

You'll be fine. The paint chips or burnt sugar bits will settle to the bottom in the trub. You can rack off the top of it when you go to secondary or bottling.

Dave

I had the exact same thing happen with my first unhopped malt brew. It was definitely burnt sugar cause I have a stainless pot. I assume it did nothing, I am having other issues with this brew but I am certain it has nothing to do with burnt sugars.

billc68 said:

I had the exact same thing happen with my first unhopped malt brew. It was definitely burnt sugar cause I have a stainless pot.

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glad to hear that bill - not glad that you burnt your sugar but glad the same thing happens in stainless and enamel

CorneliusAlphonse said:

i am brewing a bitter and this will filter out all my delicious aroma hops.
what do you guys think??

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I can't say that I have made (or enjoy) a bitter, so I'm a little unclear.

Normally aroma hops are removed from the wort prior to fermentation (filter, whirlpool). If you leave your aroma hops (typically boiled ~10mins before flameout) in the fermentor, then you are attempting to dry hop an already used hop. Is this how bitters are supposed to be made? If not, then the aroma hops should be filtered out anyway, and use another helping of fresh hops in the secondary (primary if you dont do a 2step), as a dry hop.
I feel like I may be a total moron, since I don't neccessarily know anything in depth about brewing a bitter, but I thought I would throw that out there.

In any case, it sounds like the sugars were what was flaking off. Although, I don't think I would use SS spoons (or anything metal for stirring), because enamal should not be scraped, so use a wood spoon. Yeah yeah, "contamination", but just take the spoon out when you flameout.

Hope any of the random (or parentetical) crap I said is of use!

I definitely agree about not using metal spoons - i actually stirred it using a plastic spoon, but the handle gets kind of flimsy when heated, so i may switch to wood for my next batch. Generally, a little too much is made about sterility - as long as you clean a wooden spoon once you're done, and don't use it once you're done the boil, you'll definitely be fine.

as for the hops - i am just following instructions in a partial mash kit from my LHBS. the aroma hops were added in with ~1 minute left in the boil (other additions were at the start of boil, and 10 minutes left). no filtration is done. I'm not sure if that's how folks around here do their hop additions, but it is how I was instructed

ok, if it doesnt say to make sure you keep it in the fermenter, I would suggest your normal filtration that you remove hop crud prior to adding to the fermentor. That 1 min boil is adding all the aroma, and thats it.

NuclearRich said:

Normally aroma hops are removed from the wort prior to fermentation (filter, whirlpool). If you leave your aroma hops (typically boiled ~10mins before flameout) in the fermentor, then you are attempting to dry hop an already used hop. Is this how bitters are supposed to be made? If not, then the aroma hops should be filtered out anyway, and use another helping of fresh hops in the secondary (primary if you dont do a 2step), as a dry hop.

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That's the first time I've ever heard such a thing. I don't strain out my hops. I haven't heard that I have to filter out my aroma hops since then I'm doing dryhopping with an already used hop. I'd love to see the data on those test studies, as I haven't heard it before. I know that some do strain/filter but as a matter of personal preference. I suppose it's possible that in a very long primary, some matter (including yeast) will begin to break down but that's a whole different story.

The hops oils only isomerize when boiling. That's why you add them at different times, to get flavor and aroma instead of bitterness. If you don't filter them out at adding them to primary, they don't really do anything, just fall to the bottom with the trub.

So, don't worry about straining out the hops. I don't. I've made over 250 batches of beer, and that's the first time I've heard this theory. Some of us have counterflow chillers, plate chillers, etc, and transfer via pump. How on earth can you strain then, if the stuff gets sucked up?

thanks for the clarification, yooper, like i said im not all that clear myself! simply theorizing... I do avoid keeping my hops in the primary, but it isnt possible to keep it all out. I don't mean to say it is a critical point, just a point of interest for me that I wanted to get someone (like yourself) with more experience to chime in on. Good work!
And to further clarify my thoughts, it isnt bad to keep the aroma hops in it, but it will have more of a dry hopping potential if left in the fermentor (I believe). Again, non critical, but postulation.

NuclearRich said:

And to further clarify my thoughts, it isnt bad to keep the aroma hops in it, but it will have more of a dry hopping potential if left in the fermentor (I believe). Again, non critical, but postulation.

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Nope, no dryhopping potential at all! Your theory is a bit off the mark on that.

A couple of reasons- one, the oils from the hops that were isomerized during the minute of boiling are finished. You won't get more out of them. Secondly, any co2 produced in primary will 'blow off" some of the delicate aromatics. That's why you don't dryhop until fermentation is over- it's not going to work until fermentation is over.

I recently heard a very interesting podcast on dryhopping and yeast, too, but I can't remember which one it was! It was talking about the reasoning behind dryhopping in the secondary and one of the reasons was because of the negative impact the yeast would have on dryhopping. Basically, the gist of it was that the yeast present during fermentation negate the dryhopping potential. I sure wish I could remember the episode, and even WHICH podcast it was! I listen to Basic Brewing Radio, and the Jamil shows on the BN, so I'm sure it was one of those two but for the life of me I can't remember which!

Yoops, it may have been an older episode BrewStrong. EDIT: Checked, great dry-hopping episode dated 12/8/08...

I listened to that one a month ago; one of the guys (might have been Jamil) said they dump the hops right into the primary. I dry-hopped an IPA into glass primary (pellets in, then racked from kettle through venturi tube setup) with an ounce of 9% Centennial (an IPA). Though I'm sure some of the aroma was driven off by the CO2 production, I did this as a test: one carboy with, and one without the dry hops (split a 6 gallon batch in half). Both were bottled after three weeks in primary only, no filtration.

Both are great tasting beers, but the aroma is definitely there for the dry-hopped version. So much less hassle than racking to secondary.

torque2k said:

Yoops, it may have been an older episode BrewStrong. EDIT: Checked, great dry-hopping episode dated 12/8/08...

I listened to that one a month ago; one of the guys (might have been Jamil) said they dump the hops right into the primary. I dry-hopped an IPA into glass primary (pellets in, then racked from kettle through venturi tube setup) with an ounce of 9% Centennial (an IPA). Though I'm sure some of the aroma was driven off by the CO2 production, I did this as a test: one carboy with, and one without the dry hops (split a 6 gallon batch in half). Both were bottled after three weeks in primary only, no filtration.

Both are great tasting beers, but the aroma is definitely there for the dry-hopped version. So much less hassle than racking to secondary.

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I think they were saying to dry hop in the primary, after the fermentation is nearly complete. Not at the beginning of fermentation.
But if your beers are great tasting and you got the aroma you wanted
I won't argue.

ah enlightenment

:cross:

dzlater said:

I think they were saying to dry hop in the primary, after the fermentation is nearly complete. Not at the beginning of fermentation.
But if your beers are great tasting and you got the aroma you wanted
I won't argue.

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Oh, I agree, I believe they did state they waited until a slowing of fermentation, but for s***s and giggles I wanted to see just how much was driven off by CO2 production. The next IPA I do (I'm going to attempt a duplicate of the last one) I will split again, but this time one carboy will have the hops added at racking, and one will have it added after a few days when the WLP001 settles down a bit. I love experimentation!

torque2k, post a reply or a new thread or something when this experiment comes to fruition... i am interested.

I'll try to remember to do a new thread (as that's the proper thing to do) and post a link here. Hopefully my order comes in this week from Brewmaster's Warehouse in time to do a decent starter. :rockin: