Going back to extract

FYI - This is just a venting/seeing the light/being humbled post.

I have been brewing for a little more than a year now. I began with extract and I started all grain brewing (via brew in a bag) after about 5 months. I was pretty cock sure of myself when I made an awesome AG English Bitter last summer. Then Fall/winter happened and I made a pretty poor IPA, a questionable belgian tripel and an almost undrinkable Saison de Noel (all of them all grain).

I was humbled pretty quickly. I started to realize that I was throwing in way too many variables without giving myself a chance to master the basics. So I decided to go back to basics and brew an extract kit. I brewed a Red RyePA, which isn't really a basic recipe, but it sounded good at the time. It turned out amazing!

So I've decided to table AG brewing for a bit, until I can get a better handle on some of the other aspects of brewing. I'll start out by brewing more traditional styles that are easier to compare to commercial examples. I will also focus on changing only a few variables at a time with a primary focus on fermentation temp and time and yeast pitching rate. And probably most importantly I (for the first time ever) will try to brew the same recipe more than once and achieve the same results.

To help facilitate all of this I will enter my beer into competitions to get feedback on my work. I have also joined a local home-brew club to try and immerse myself into the local culture a little more.

So take from this post what you want. I was about to give up, but I thought if I can go about this whole home-brew thing with more of a systematic approach, as opposed to just winging it, I will give myself the best chance to succeed. The whole point of this hobby is to have fun, meet new people, and learn a new skill. If I focus on those objectives I can't do anything wrong.

Cheers,

Mark

Over the past decade, I've gone back and forth between extract and all grain. To be honest, I love the convenience of extract, and if you know what you are doing, you can make excellent beer with extract. Even now as I'm contemplating a new brewing rig with e-biab in mind, I know I will still, at least occasionally, do extract batches.

At the end of the day, we all brew for pleasure. If your process and/or your final product isn't making you happy, then by all means change it up. If some asshat chimes in on this thread and chastises you for going back to extract, ignore them. The only one who you have to please is yourself.

I have been there. It can be very frustrating when a beer does not meet expectations. I have considered some extract batches to limit time and clean up.

Been there. I still consider doing extract for convenience, but have so much grain built up from bulk purchases that I rarely do. I've made my share of dumpers, but also had some success to keep things going. There was at least one long break in there too.

I applaud you for your honesty and ability to take stock of things and make the decision that works for you. I'm sure you'll nail the process and be back in all-grain before you know it.

Just starting out myself. You raise a good point about trying to duplicate results before trying the more complex. I'll take that. Extract is just so darn convenient too. Especially with limited work space.

I've been doing stovetop BIAB all grain batches for a while now and by and large I'm enjoying the results.

This weekend I wanted to put down a batch but didn't have a 6-7 hour time period that met my convenience requirements (kids in bed, wife at work on night shift). That ruled out an all grain batch.

No problem. Cooper's Stout prehopped kit, Munton's Beer Kit Enhancer, some steeping grains, a few other little bits and bobs, 2 hours of my time and I'm done.

Not only was it quick but it's less of a risk than an all grain batch since I know I like the Cooper's stout kit which is the main ingredient of this brew.

Brew to suit yourself and use what ever method you like or is convient for you at the time.

(If you haven't already maybe try mini-mash brewing. It's a nice stepping stone between extract and all grain. You already have everything you need since you're geared up for all grain BIAB)

I went from extract to partial mash BIAB style to all grain.

Maybe consider stepping back to PM instead of all they way back to extract or occasionally mixing one in. The only way to get comfortable with the process is practice.

I have gone back to brewing extracts twice. Each time I had moved and my all grain system was co owned by a buddy so I sold out and till I got a new all grain system up and running did extract brews

I still have some brews I just do extract, In my humble opinion, if you are just doing a simple single step infusion, you are just wasting your time and get the same results with DME

Anyway, I agree about the basics and have to admit if you are doing extract you have a lot more time to work with the basics. Learn the differences in boil times. how to balance a malt bill, how to get the utilization you want from hops and not do blind hop drops without knowing what effects utilization. Yeast knowledge and the list goes on.

I raise a toast in salute to you for doing such.

I get handed a lot of beers that the only thing saving them is the malt bill is so bad, and the hops so over hopped, that you cannot tell what the beer taste like of what style it is..

get good with light beers, you have nothing to hide behind and if you do not get it right, it really shows.

It took me till about a year ago to go pb/pm biab. It takes from about 9 or 10 AM till evening,but the results are pretty good. But I'm concidering seeing if I can get a deal on maybe 3 Cooper's OS lager cans & doctor them up into some hybrid lagers on the cheap. Small partial mash with some more bittering & flavor hops with WL029 it's there! It doesn't really matter how you get there. Just getting there is fine. By that I mean to goodbeerville.

I did my first all grain batch and it does taste thin but I know why. Of course I think it is great that you're getting back to basics and such, but do you know what is causing your off flavors?

I'll be honest. Dealing with water is not going to happen for me right now. I feel like if there is water that is fine for brewing available, then I am not going to continue to complicate my life and try to adjust my tap water. Though it would certainly make life easier if I forget to buy water the night before. But if I were brewing and getting off flavors constantly, I would want to know why. Even with my first technically failed all grain batch, I did a lot of homework on the why behind the failure. I think I know it, but only time will tell when I brew my next AG batch Saturday.

So have you looked into that? I'd say do that and still make the move back to extract. I've had people turn their noses up at me when I tell them I brew then I tell them I brew using extract. I always laugh because even using extract, I am still brewing beer and there is still much that can go right and wrong. I do not turn my nose up to extract, I just know I want to try AG and have some control over some brews that extract doesn't give me.

Hats off to your humility, If I where in your shoes (and I have been) I would focus on fermentation temperature next, that is a very common problem. That doesn't mean you have to invest in a ferm chamber, just get creative with ways to maintain the correct temp. Now, you dont have to do it my way, but here's an example of what I did to improve my brews:

It gets really hot down here for about 9 months of the year, and I have a mini-fridge outside that I never considered as a fermentation chamber. I got a temp controller as a gift one year and I have been waiting to use it. well after so many too-hot batches I decided to make the fridge work. Now, a 5 gallon bucket doesn't fit in there, but 6 one gallon jugs do, so I hooked up the temp controller and made my first lager. So now I have decided to make all my ales in the winter (when my house is always in the 60s) and all my lagers plus some ales in the summer when I can just toss them in the mini-fridge and relax knowing that my beer is cool while the rest of the world is getting scorched.

Like's been said, a lot of what makes good beer good is common to both AG and Extract. You're right in wanting to nail those things down before you consider going back to AG.

Well said,guys! I haven't got much to add to that. but ferment temps,chilling asap,& good healthy yeast pitch are what to concentrate on,regardless of brewing style.

I am not thinking all-grain at this point in my experience, but honestly, if I can make a kick-ass extract, I can't foresee going to AG. Perhaps my aspirations will change in time, but right now I'm just trying to make the best I can make with the tools I have in an extract kit. With that being said, I do want to start to build my own kits using supplies, grains (even crushing them) and DME/LME from local brewery supply stores and doing partial mash kits. But, if I can master that, I'll be one happy kegger-operator!

There is no shame in going back to extract. I had a string of really good beers when I went all-grain, but then I had 6 crappy beers in a row. I wanted to quit the hobby. I found that brewing the same recipes multiple times helped. You should brew an extract batch and then brew it with steeping grains. Then convert it to a mini mash recipe. Or just do extract and not worry about it

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I know extract brewers who can brew circles around most all grain brewers

it is not how you brew, it is all about how you brew

in other words, it is nothing about extract, BIAB, Mini mash or All Grain, it is all about your methods and techniques.

you can learn how to make extract beers just as complicated as a good all grain brewer. It is all about method and techniques.

study the basics, weather that is extract or all grain. brewing is like a building, you need a solid foundation.

want to find out if you are any good? make an American light lager, and give it an honest evaluation. There is nothing there to hide behind.

Good Luck and I commend you for wanting to learn to do it right, and to learn what is not right. It will put you heads and tails above those guys telling you that you do not need to.

I, too, have been brewing a year. Started with Mr Beer and now have tried partial mash. Truly no expert. As others have stated, went through a string of poor or bad batches. Took some time to reread Palmer's "How to Brew" and it helped me tons! Many paragraphs made much more sense with a bit more experience and a more careful read. My two sense. Brew what you like and like what you brew!

i dont see anything wrong with this. i am also considering to do the same. i have been brewing for only a year. i made my extract batches and partial mash and then did all grain.switch happened maybe 5-6 months into brewing. i thought wow this is great, all grain is cheaper and although it takes more time its worth it. well i got caught up in a group buy and bought way to much f...... grain!! 250lbs worth!! as of know im stuck with all grain till i get about 180lbs out of the house. plus a baby on the way well 3 weeks so any day. i dont see me having any time to brew ..

BigJack said:

If some asshat chimes in on this thread and chastises you for going back to extract, ignore them. The only one who you have to please is yourself.

Click to expand...

Ya, I know who you mean, I think that guy drinks Bud Lite and works in D.C.

I did a couple extract brews last weekend, because I needed to churn out a few quick batches for an upcoming party. Man, I couldnt believe how quick the process was! Brewing AG in my kitchen has always been a pain, not much space to move around and what not. Other than the crazy dark coloring that can come with extract, these went absolutely flawless. Im working on putting together a proper brewery in my garage this spring, and until then, nothing but extract.

Sometimes you need the connivence, or you need to work your way back up to find a flaw in process. Regardless of the reason, there is absolutely nothing wrong with going back to the basics.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/extract-all-grain-back-506206/#post6533546

Hey Scrappy Dingo, as you can see from the thread I started here yesterday (link above) I'm now in the same boat! I just found your thread this morning.

My biggest problem is the varying water here courtesy have having three different sources that are variably mixed and sometimes not. Water report one month or season is meaningless the next so I've been on a distilled water building journey on which I've learned a lot! Still, there are so many reasons to simplify things around here.

The only thing keeping me interested in keeping my all grain equipment is the added cost of extract vs. grains...

Good luck on your journey Scrappy, good yeast to you!

IMHO, I feel like if the recipe has a basic two row or Pilsner base, there's no point in brewing it AG. Breiss and the likes have been making extract a long time and I'm pretty sure they're much better at it than I am. Unless you want to mash the grains for practice or you just really enjoy the process, extract is the way to go! Granted, there are some styles that just need to be brewed AG to have the same results. I am not claiming to be an expert, but logically it makes sense to me.

PM can also give that certain kind of freedom in creating colors & flavor complexities. I think I just about nailed dampfbier on my second version. Compare this to the pic on the German beer institute;
Mine;

The original;

I have been doing extract for the last year as a beginner. Doing extract with special grains allow me to brew almost anything I can imagine. I have stayed with a style for 3 or more brews trying to get a handle on how ingredients work together and brew times. I Still can't reproduce the same brew to my satisfaction but I can get close. Now that I am 12 brews into the process I am going to do all grain in the same beer as my extract and see if I can taste improvement. The biggest improvements have been tempature control and pitching enough yeast. I agree with what your doing with the going back to extract to get the process down . I hope I don't decide to do the same after several all grain brews.