BeerSmith pitfalls?

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sawbossFogg

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I'll peruse the threads, but specifically as a fairly novice builder in BeerSmith I'm looking to avoid any pitfalls that may not be obvious. I've had success building and implementing 2 recipes in BeerSmith, but it still seem a little to good to be true :) Any thoughts or experiences? Thanks.
 
When I was a rookie I used BeerSmith it to design a recipe, thinking that if I adjusted my grain bill and hop schedule to hit the same numbers as beers I loved, I'd have a good recipe. That was not true. I brewed a mediocre beer that appeared in BrewSmith to have the same scale values as great beers I've had. So I learned that it is a good calculator, and once I was proficient with my equipment and could predict water calculations, etc, I found I no longer needed it anyway.
 
I think the equipment and method profiling is the part I am most concerned with as the equipment options are limited. I've been brewing for about 20 years, calculated grains bills using simple methods as well as BeerSmith, but I feel like an experience like Roberts is looming because there are so many variables. Of course it is best to test ones Smith recipe against best judgement based on experience, and so far I've had success using BeerSmith and with the incredible accuracy and detail of data logging which really trumps my old log books, I don't think I'll outgrow it soon.
Seeking more BeerSmith watch-outs! Thanks.
 
There's some good info on how to set up your Beersmith equipment profile here. It does lean toward BIAB brewing but the info is still helpful in general.
 
I know this is an old thread but I just got Brewsmith and have been trying to watch their vid's. Might there be something out there that you can hear and understand? :/
 
Ive brewed about 40 batches now with BS. Overall its great, pitfalls I haven't really encountered unless you're inattentive to the equipment setup and/or blindly follow the water volumes.

The only thing I don't like about BS is not being able to add items to my inventory that it doesn't have as current options. This can be solved in recipes by adding something in its database and manually typing in desired information, but I have not been able to do this in the inventory.
 
Agreed about the ingredients. I've found I have to go through and add a fair amount of stuff (say, Belgian candi syrups). But for what's in there already, it all seems to be pretty accurate.

I've noticed this one recently brewing a Milk Stout (and I recall other programs doing this too) - it doesn't calculate lactose as unfermentable, but rather seems to treat it like a simple sugar and 100% fermentable.

I use other calculators for mash water temps that have always worked for me. I've never really gone by the water volumes, or use the temps that BeerSmith gives me, but from my experience the strike water temp is always high and the sparge water volume is always low.
 
I love using Beersmith.
I found it took a couple of brews to dial in the equipment profile. I still get some variance in my efficiency, but the beers have been great. You will need to learn what grains go together in what percentages as you can get something that looks good but will not be right by using too much crystal or smoked malt etc.

It is a great tool but it is still that, a tool. If you don't use it right you will not be satisfied with the results.
 
I love using Beersmith.
I found it took a couple of brews to dial in the equipment profile. I still get some variance in my efficiency, but the beers have been great. You will need to learn what grains go together in what percentages as you can get something that looks good but will not be right by using too much crystal or smoked malt etc.

It is a great tool but it is still that, a tool. If you don't use it right you will not be satisfied with the results.

Yes, BS is a great tool with pro's and cons.
 
I must I'm doing something wrong, but these are the pitfalls I'm referring to. I'm planning to do an easy cooler mash, (normally I mash and boil in my kettle) and set into BS a 10 gallon cooler-kettle mash with 23 lbs of grist. BeerSmith calls for 80 quarts of water which is ludicrous!!!! I need 40 tops! I enjoy the program as a log and guide, but what major aspect am I missing here to get this kind of doubling! Stupid!
 
I must I'm doing something wrong, but these are the pitfalls I'm referring to. I'm planning to do an easy cooler mash, (normally I mash and boil in my kettle) and set into BS a 10 gallon cooler-kettle mash with 23 lbs of grist. BeerSmith calls for 80 quarts of water which is ludicrous!!!! I need 40 tops! I enjoy the program as a log and guide, but what major aspect am I missing here to get this kind of doubling! Stupid!

Its the No mash out setting, duh.
 
Do some research on setting up the equipment profile right.
+1.... An individual equipment profile can take a little bit of work, but once BS understands how YOUR system works, then things start falling into place.
I love using Beersmith.
I found it took a couple of brews to dial in the equipment profile. I still get some variance in my efficiency, but the beers have been great. You will need to learn what grains go together in what percentages as you can get something that looks good but will not be right by using too much crystal or smoked malt etc.

It is a great tool but it is still that, a tool. If you don't use it right you will not be satisfied with the results.

ABsolutely to this ^. BS can really help a new brewer understand recipe formulation, etc... BUT if you do not set it up correctly then it is complicates it a lot. The program is only as smart as the user.
 
cwi said:
You want some BS pitfalls? I'll give you two big ones:

Efficiency is 'to the fermenter'- Read up on this, and how you would have to deal with changing your efficiency if you adjust your trub loss per recipe, or ever. Or, just set 'trub loss' to '0', and use the much more appropriate 'kettle efficiency' and a batch size of what is in the kettle post boil.

Batch sparge and BIAB efficiency- BS, and most other packages also, don't handle batch sparge or BIAB properly. According to the physical laws of the universe, your efficiency decreases as OG increases, when using these sparging methods. BS has no good way to accommodate these styles, and, even worse, leads you to incorrect values if you leave your efficiency static (as they recommend).

Ok of all my HBT research this is the big one. Thanks. I'm continuing to research and apply your feedback. Thanks again. I've been making beers myself and friends like for nearly 2 decades and I like really software programs. Thanks for participating my thread, I'll let you know what I figure out.
 
I do BIAB all-grain brewing. It took three brews collecting the volume, temperature, & sg readings at each critical step of the process to dial in the software to a very accurate predictor of my results.

When I changed my set-up recently due to a larger brew pot, incorporating a batch sparge, and increasing my finished volume, it took two brews after changing my equipment set up to again dial it in.


Basically, if you try to use the canned set-ups that come with the program and do not try to customize it to your specific equipment; if you don't alter the mashing schedule to reflect what you actually do then you will be more at risk of not hitting the program targets for your recipe.

The software is my no means perfect and I do have a number of simple work-arounds for doing tasks outside of the brew day. Remember also, it is only a simulation of your possible results! I've tried a couple of the other brewing software packages and they are all the same in that they only can perform according to the information put into them.
 
Please relax and don't take this the wrong way....

I'm a home brewer. I spent $20 on a software package to help me be a better brewer because I'm a home brewer. Not a pro brewer or computer programmer or accountant.
I get that BS software may not be doing what it does correctly and even wrong in some cases. I don't really care because I like to brew. It gets me close enough on my end game that I can comp for the difference. Part of being a brewer.
30 years ago even pro brewers excepting the elite corporate engineering types, wouldn't even know what you were talking about. Being angry about software is pointless to me. There are enough BS threads out there to forewarn people of the shortcomings of BS if they really care.

Being able to feel real changes in the process by successes and failures in the brew house by brewing is part of what I enjoy about brewing and why I consider myself a home brewer and not a beer maker (or beer smith ; if you will :D). BeerSmith gets me close enough to make me feel like I got my money's worth.
I; like you, have ways to handle the difference to get me where I want to be if I care enough to do it. Because sometimes; I just don't care.
 
The bottom line for those who are interested in BS or any other brewing software is that you will need to customize it to make it right for the way YOU brew. Some people just use the software to create recipes and track what they have done. As such, they are not so interested in getting exact numbers. Others, such as myself, take the time and effort to make sure that my methods and style of brewing is reflected in the program variables so that the numbers the program predicts are much closer to what is actually achieved.

I do not promote BS over any other brewing software. As with most programs, the interface seems to work for some and not others; the options available work for some, and do not fit what others may be looking for. In the end, this is just a hobby. If you like a particular piece of software, then by all means use it. If you don't, then find one that does work for you.

Picking up a cresent wrench to tighten a 1/2" nut and finding it doesn't work for you because you have to adjust the opening does not make it the wrong tool for others to use.
 
yikes. it only took me a few brews to figure out i would be fiddling with the efficiency numbers to nail down my og. would be nice if it did it automatically, but i never thought of it as a real big deal. i put my trub loss to 0, batch size to 5.5 gallons, fermenter loss to .5 gallon. 1.045 beers will nail 79% efficiency, 1.066 beers will be around 70%. if i dont adjust efficiency i would be 8 points off on the bigger beers. i pay attention and use a refract to measure my pre boil gravity. if i know its going to be off i will just cut the volume, maintain my desired OG, and adjust my hop additions. where are these aussie spreadsheets cwi?
 
I am really unclear as to what cwi expects. I've used brewtarget, brewtoad, Qbrew, BS. All of them have their pluses and minuses, and none of hits the target OG 100% of the time. Of course even this assumes that your process - from crush, to mash-in, to pH, to starch conversion - is flawless. Simply put, it probably isn't and won't always be on the homebrew scale. Then again, it the built-in variability and challenge to get it right that makes homebrewing so much fun. Lighten up dude, it's not worth the wasted breath. If you're so negatively affected by a software you don't even use, why don't you just write your own program?
 
^ Yup. When I use a software package, or play a game or whatever - if I hate it, then I simply don't use it anymore.

If I think those who like it and use it regularly are brain-washed, or drinking the proverbial kool-aid, then why in the hell would I spend any amount of time trying to convince them that *I* know the best way and that they are all wrong?

If they get good results, it's because they don't see the underlying problems, and don't realize that their "good" results are actually bad results. What exactly am I going to accomplish with my diatribe? I know.. maybe I'll write a bunch of paragraphs telling them exactly why it doesn't work, even though it works for them, then that will convince them!
 
The method I use involves using 2 'software' packages- one to design, and one for actual grain/hop bills, so it doesn't really matter which I use for designing. I use BrewTarget (free) for designing, and some spreadsheets from some Aussie brewers that use "true absorption" for my final grain bills. It is kind of a pain, but the only way to predict numbers (the first time) on brewday.

I'm intrigued cwi. I'd like to try your method of a combination of software/spreadsheets that perform well for you. I occasionally feel like I'm chasing targets in BS but have always chalked it up to crush (lhbs), ingredient (grits, rice), process (faulty cereal mash, etc), or simply a high gravity beer and "natural" reduced efficiency. If there's a method out there, even if it requires additional effort on my part, that can keep these fluctuations to less of a minimum than BS then I'd like to try it out. I already have brewtarget installed and have used it for comparative purposes on a few occasions; sounds like all I need is an aussie spreadsheet and some general instruction.

I don't deny that I like BS. It works well for me and gets me close to my numbers. I've also found consistency in BS's BH eff for most (not all) recipes. I like the all-in-one aspect plus the ability to keep notes on process. It's FAR from a "bad" product, however if there's something out there that is an improvement then I'm all ears.

Finally, I support your effort to bring light to some information that you know about a well-liked software package, and I commend your efforts. Unfortunately, your words begin to fall flat and on deaf ears when your posts begin to get defensive, aggressive, and insinuate your intellectual superiority. This is where I think you lose your audience. Granted, your initial post in this thread was totally acceptable and just pointed out a couple facts; it's the follow-up posts that began to deteriorate. Regardless, keep doing what you're doing but consider your approach so as not to alienate your audience.

Most importantly: I would really like to try your combo-software method and see if it fits into my personal routine. I often times find the best softwares are free and created out of pure necessity by some very smart people.

Cheers! :mug:
 
I'll admin to skimming this thread a little but I do not see what is wrong with measuring efficiency to the fermentor. That's where the wort goes that turns into beer. The wort left in the kettle does not.

The same goes for batch size. 5 gallons in the fermentor with a half gallon in the kettle is not a 5.5 gallon batch.

While Beersmith is not perfect and has a bit of a clumsy UI, it does get the job done for me.
 
Many posts were deleted, during the "clean up" of this thread.

There was some good information, but many posts were rife with insults, banter, back and forth comments, etc, all of which are against our forum rules.

Keep on topic, do NOT get personal, or simply don't post at all. It's really not that hard to understand.

No further warnings will be given. Thanks!
 
Thank you cwi; the information you provided is clear, concise, and to the point with excellent write-up. I'm going to look into the techniques and spreadsheets outlined in your post above and see if I can better predict my brewday. I batch sparge, usually 3 runnings total due to MLT size, and wonder how the BIAB spreadsheets will account for this. Regardless, thanks for the info and hopefully I'll be able to create a more consistent process for various OG beers than is currently provided by BS, which does pretty decent on most accounts.
 
I don't know if cwi is capable of reply but, if so, I have a couple questions for you. I tried PM but apparently you cannot receive PMs anymore.

Anyway, you had said that a workaround for BS was setting trub loss to 0 and keep track elsewhere (e.g. fermenter loss). I'm good with that. I assume that I would also need to adjust my batch size larger to account for what doesn't leave the boil kettle so that I don't end up 1/4-1/2 gallon shy, correct?

You had also said: "All you do for a recipe is to adjust the BH eff until the mash efficiency matches your historical value- 90-95% is a good starting point, with going lower guaranteeing that you will get a full batch before determine you actual number."

I can get BS to adjust it's mash eff the way you stated, however it has a bug whereby I need to actually switch screens and go back to the main screen to get it to update. Regardless, the part I'm not fully understand is the "set my mash efficiency to historical value - 90-95% is a good starting point". Do you actually mean to set my eff to 90-95% or to set it to 90-95% of my expected efficiency (my expected BS BH eff is 74%)? The reoccurring theme I'm seeing in historical batches is that my BS mash efficiency is generally 78.5%.
 
I love Beersmith! The only thing I don't care for is the yeast tab. I calculate everything out on yeastcalc. Other than that, you can tweak it to get your numbers exact. I always hit my temps and gravities.

One of the best things about it other that just the recipe calcultors is just the fact that you can use it as a recipe database. I take all my notes from brewday and add them to the software and I always have them to refer back to.
 
Go to the BS website and watch the video on how to set the software up for your equipment. It will help quite a bit.
 
Is cwi still with us or have they been banished to the nether regions? :D
 
scootermsp said:
Go to the BS website and watch the video on how to set the software up for your equipment. It will help quite a bit.

Another helpful comment, thanks. I think BS is a great tool, it has certainly been a fun new adventure after many years scribbling in notepads. I've gleaned a ton from this thread and thank its participants.
 
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