I have some apricot wine, that has been bubbling away for several months. I recently checked the SG and it was around 1.025 I want to bottle it a little on the sweet side so I decided to cold crash it. Living in northwest MT all I had to do was put it out on my inclosed front porch to get it cold enough. I have a digital thermometer out there and the temperature has varied between 33º and 28º. After 24 hours on the porch the wine is still bubbling away. I realize some of that is going to be residual CO2 suspended in the liquid but it has only slowed down a little bit. It doesn't look like any yeast has dropped out of suspension at all. I know it can take days to cold crash, but I figured the cold would at least slow down the bubbling. am I doing something wrong or do I just need to continue to be more patient.
cold crashing... what am I doing wrong????
- Thread starter Daze
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:
scottatdrake
Well-Known Member
Ignoring the question about cold-crashing for the moment....
If you bottle before fermentation has finished, you're not going to get a sweeter beer... you're going to get exploding bottles! The yeast won't stop fermenting just because they're inside a bottle.
(EDIT: Well, I realize now we're talking about wine but the same concept applies. Right??)
If you bottle before fermentation has finished, you're not going to get a sweeter beer... you're going to get exploding bottles! The yeast won't stop fermenting just because they're inside a bottle.
(EDIT: Well, I realize now we're talking about wine but the same concept applies. Right??)
you are absolutely correct. some say that if you cold crash and rack of the liquid above the sediment several times that you can bottle with out the fear of bottle bombs because you have removed all the yeast, BUT I think that is just asking for trouble. I am cold crashing to eliminate MOST of the yeast then I will bottle and pasteurize to kill any yeast left over. I know that I could bottle and pasteurize now, but I really don't want that much sediment in the bottom of the bottle.
scottatdrake
Well-Known Member
Ahhhh, I get it. Interesting.
Anyway, I would think those temps would pretty much halt the fermentation, too. I guess I would just give it a couple more days to see if it clears up.
Anyway, I would think those temps would pretty much halt the fermentation, too. I guess I would just give it a couple more days to see if it clears up.
Penguinetti
Well-Known Member
Kind of a noob question, but it pertains slightly to what was said above.
Would racking AND cold-crashing be enough to subdue the yeasties, or is the psteurizing / sulfites absolutely necessary?
Would racking AND cold-crashing be enough to subdue the yeasties, or is the psteurizing / sulfites absolutely necessary?
It really depends on the yeast strain. Some strains can go into a hibernation state @ low temps and can come back while other will just die off. Without pasteurization or sulfites, you risk a secondary fermentation in the bottles which is not fun -- which is the reason most wines are back-sweetened instead of trying to stop fermentation to save the sugars.
It is only necessary because I am wanting something sweet. I have seen lots of posts on the cider forum where people say that cold crashing followed by racking the clear wine off the top, and then repeating the process multiple times will eliminate the yeast from the wine allowing you to bottle with out worrying about fermentation starting back up , but I am not willing to take that risk. if even 1 yeast is left behind (keeping in mind 1 drop of actively fermenting wine has 1000s of yeast) the fermentation will start back up. That is why I have no choice but to pasteurize as I don't like chemicals and will not use stabilizer.
As true as that is I personally still wouldn't risk it even if I "knew" the yeast was one that normally died off when cold crashed. Yeast are tough, highly adaptive, reproduce easily, and number in the millions in just one gallon of fermenting beer, wine, cider or mead. Over the course of the fermentation process the yeast are constantly reproducing and each generation has the potential to be slightly different than the last. Just the act of cold crashing may provide enough time and the right stimulus to have a generation of yeast that is slightly more cold resistant.
shataway
Well-Known Member
It may take longer than 24 hrs to get the liquid temp down if it is a large batch (5g).
Update, after about 32 hours the bubbling has almost stopped. There are still a few bubbles rising to the top but I think most of them are from residual CO2. The wine however has not cleared at all. The sediment at the bottom is about the same as when I started. I am hoping a day or two will make all the difference and the wine will clear. Thanks agin for the input. Worst case if this gallon of wine doesn't clear with cold crashing I will simply bring it back in and let it warm back up and ferment it out dry. 
GinKings
Well-Known Member
I have always understood that yeast go dormant at colder temps. It doesn't kill them. If it did, I wouldn't be keeping my yeast in the fridge and the Belgians wouldn't be able to brew beer.
Sorbate will stop the ferm.
GinKings
Well-Known Member
No, sorbate will not stop fermentation. Sorbate is birth control for yeast. It does not kill yeast.
+1 sorbate can be used IF the wine has been fermented out dry and you are back sweetening OR you cold crash to remove most of the yeast first. If you add sorbate to an active ferment all you will accomplish is to slightly slow things down and you will have added some (evil) chemicals
Penguinetti
Well-Known Member
K-metabisulfite. That works, doesn't it?
What kind of negative effects (if any) does it have?
What kind of negative effects (if any) does it have?
I don't understand how it's still bubbling and at 1.025 after "several months".
It is wine yeast in a cool basement about 58º, besides wine can take as much as 6 months to ferment out. this one has been going for over 10 years... (kind of) but that is a totally different story
recently it has been going about 2 months with an OG of 1.060
I know colder temps slow things down but I didn't think an active fermentation could go on for so long.
I am pretty new to wine though so I'm listening ...
I am pretty new to wine though so I'm listening ...
Daze said:
I can't help but totally agree with you about cool and slow. I like my beers that way and I have two wine kits in the fermentation chamber at 64 right now. Should I go cooler?
There is a question I cannot answer. The yeast came with the kit and I threw out the pack after pitching. I will check the kit name tomorrow. That may indicate the yeast.
Daze said:64 is probably a good temp. the only reason mine is at 58 is that is the current temp of my basement
Been there. A chest freezer / controller is the cats ass!
huesmann
Well-Known Member
How does one go about pasteurizing wine?
There are lots of ways that it is done commercially, but really only two ways I know for the home brewer to do it. Both ways involve heating it up and require a thermometer. You can either pasteurize in or out of the bottle. If you are planning on using wine bottles and corks than it must be done out of the bottle. rack the wine in to a stock pot, attach the thermometer to the side of the pot with the probe in the wine and slowly bring the win temp up to 140º once you get there cover it with a sterilized lid, remove it from the heat, and let it cool. Once cool bottle it. If you bottle it hot, as it cools the corks will be sucked in to the bottles.
if using caped bottles you can pasteurize in a pan, and bottle hot as the cap won't get sucked in. the other option is to fill and cap the bottles then pasteurize them with a hot water bath. this link tells all about that.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/easy-stove-top-pasteurizing-pics-193295/
The biggest advantage to pasteurization besides stopping fermentation is extended shelf life for wines with a lower ABV that would not normally keep as long.
Rickibob
New Member
Why not just use pottasium sorbate to kill the east then sweeten it to your desire?
first and for most pottasium sorbate does not kill yeast it stops reproduction so it will not work on an active ferment. it will only work on a fully fermented wine that is being back sweetened OR on a wine that is not fermented out but that has been cold crashed to remove most of the yeast.
second, IMHO chemicals are evil so I won't use them if I can avoid it.
Because sorbate doesn't kill yeast. It inhibits yeast reproduction.
In this case (and all cases of active fermentation), there are plenty of yeast in suspension and they aren't reproducing at this stage- they are fermenting. Adding sorbate to an active fermentation is like giving birth control pills to a pregnant lady. Not going to hurt much, but certainly not going to solve your problem.
My winemaking techniques are far different than the OPs, so I have no good input on the stalling/pasteurizing angle. It's far easier to start with a lower OG and ferment the wine out and then stabilize and backsweeten to taste. Of course, I don't like sediment in my wine and I don't like stalling/stressing yeast because of the potential for poor flavor results.
Rickibob
New Member
I see! Thanks for the pointer. I'm fairly new at this and only have done 4 batches! Next batch I'm gonna try to put all my sugar in at once. To max out my fermentation
actually they are not tat different. I couln't agree more with everything you said as the "the best way to do it". With this batch the better option would have been to start with less sugar ferment it out dry and then backsweeten but this wine is not your normal brew. It is an attempt to modify somthing I started 10 years ago that stalled out My original attempt was misguided and I am trying to "fix" it.
Over all I don't think we are really that far apart in technique with the exception of my desire to avoid chemicals
huesmann
Well-Known Member
The thread you linked says to use a 190º water bath. Is that just to assure that the bottle temp gets up to 140º after turning off the heat?
The basic guidelines for pasteurization are"
Pasteurizing temperatures
at 53C = 128F minimum time to kill population 56 min
at 60C = 140F minimum time to kill population 5.6 min
at 67c = 152F minimum time to kill population .56 min
I shoot for 140 because I want to insure everything is killed off, but I don't want to heat the liquid any more than I have to and "cook" it. When you bottle pasteurize you are heating the liquid inside the bottles through the glass and in most cases the liquid inside the glass will be a little cooler than the water outside the glass so that is the first reason the water-bath should be at 190. the second reason is that you turn the heat off before you submerge the bottles and the bottles will suck a bunch of heat out of the water bath so you start high so you can end up at a temp closer to what is needed. make sense???
Pasteurizing temperatures
at 53C = 128F minimum time to kill population 56 min
at 60C = 140F minimum time to kill population 5.6 min
at 67c = 152F minimum time to kill population .56 min
I shoot for 140 because I want to insure everything is killed off, but I don't want to heat the liquid any more than I have to and "cook" it. When you bottle pasteurize you are heating the liquid inside the bottles through the glass and in most cases the liquid inside the glass will be a little cooler than the water outside the glass so that is the first reason the water-bath should be at 190. the second reason is that you turn the heat off before you submerge the bottles and the bottles will suck a bunch of heat out of the water bath so you start high so you can end up at a temp closer to what is needed. make sense???
huesmann
Well-Known Member
Yeah, that's what I thought--just wasn't sure. Is there any reason a person couldn't just keep the heat on the burner, and just monitor the temp in the bottles so that it hits 152ºF for 35 seconds, and cycle the hot bottles out and new bottles in?
First of all the temps and times are in relation to the liquid in the bottles not the liquid in the water bath so it takes time to get the bottles up to temp, that is why the 10 minute weight.
Also this pasteurization process while safe when done correctly is dangerous when done incorrectly. by keeping the heat on you will have inconsistent temperatures through out the bath and you increase the risk of breaking bottles.
Also this pasteurization process while safe when done correctly is dangerous when done incorrectly. by keeping the heat on you will have inconsistent temperatures through out the bath and you increase the risk of breaking bottles.
well after 4 days the wine has still not cleared so I guess I will let it warm back up ferment out and I will go from there.
unbelievable, 2 hours after I brought it in,(still very cold but closer to room temperature) it started bubbling like a fresh fermentation. I guess the yeast were hungry after lying dormant for 4 days.
