You see in the video here ([ame]http://youtu.be/h5J8S5nBdUc[/ame]) at around 13:30, that John Palmer stirs the sparge water with the grains. Isn't this kind of the same thing as squeezing the grain bag, which as we all know is a no no. What is the difference? Doesn't the agitation that Palmer is causing release the tannins just like squeezing the grain bag?
Stirring sparge water+grains???
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Um, no?
Squeezing is about the pressure... Which isn't really a problem on our scale anyway (compared to the big boys). And probably doesn't extract tannins anyway.
Stirring isn't like squeezing that I can see. Am I missing something? Do you have something else mind?
Squeezing is about the pressure... Which isn't really a problem on our scale anyway (compared to the big boys). And probably doesn't extract tannins anyway.
Stirring isn't like squeezing that I can see. Am I missing something? Do you have something else mind?
CrystalShip
Well-Known Member
I stir during the sparge and squeeze the grain bag. I think these are both homebrew myths.
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From what I've read here, tannins are extracted by pH and pressure. Real pressure. Like hundreds of lbs of grain pressure. The amount of pressure from squeezing your bag won't cause any issues. Even boiling temps don't matter if the pH is in range.
Agitation doesn't seem to be an issue. It's commonly recommended to stir like mad at several points in the mashing process.
Fly sparging can have tannin issues, I think (I batch sparge), but again, that's pH.
Sooooo..... no. Stirring is not an issue.
As a matter of fact if you are purchasing your grains milled at the LHBS, where the quality of the crush cannot be certain, then stirring the heck out of your mash after the sparge IMO is essential!
If you think about the mash / batch sparge (or fly sparge) process, especially for newer brewers like us, it all makes perfect sense.
Grains and water soak at predetermined temperature and time, converting starch to sugars and then sugar water is drained off.
The remaining grains have a fair amount of sugar left to rinse and gather.
Add hot water and stir the crap out of them to free up all the sugars stuck to the grain husks and inside partially crushed (hopefully not too many of these).
Stirring is not an issue.As a matter of fact if you are purchasing your grains milled at the LHBS, where the quality of the crush cannot be certain, then stirring the heck out of your mash after the sparge IMO is essential!
If you think about the mash / batch sparge (or fly sparge) process, especially for newer brewers like us, it all makes perfect sense.
Grains and water soak at predetermined temperature and time, converting starch to sugars and then sugar water is drained off.
The remaining grains have a fair amount of sugar left to rinse and gather.
Add hot water and stir the crap out of them to free up all the sugars stuck to the grain husks and inside partially crushed (hopefully not too many of these).
Another question about this. Palmer states that in areas with high alkalinity water such as 8.0 to 9.0, when mashing you'll be in the 6.0 and higher range. What if you started with say 6.8 or 7.0, where should this put the mash ph approx.? 5.0 - 5.8??
cluckk
Well-Known Member
It should be close to those numbers. However, you should get something to calculate these changes--like the Bru'n Water spreadsheet.
As for the stir, there is no problem with stirring during batch sparging--it is actually part of the process. I stir several times during the mash--usually every twenty minutes--then do batch sparging, where I fill with a calculated amount of sparge water, stir, let rest, vorlauf and then continue the lauter. Sometimes I use multiple sparges. I calculate these with BrewSmith.
Stirring will not draw tannins, because as was already said, this happens with pH and pressure. With stirring there is no increase in pressure--just agitation. As for squeezing the bag, I'm of the opinion that it would take far more pressure to draw out tannins than you could possibly provide with a little squeeze. Others disagree and are free to not squeeze their own bag. I promise not to squeeze anyone else's bag against their will--ever. Wait! That didn't sound right for some reason.
As for the stir, there is no problem with stirring during batch sparging--it is actually part of the process. I stir several times during the mash--usually every twenty minutes--then do batch sparging, where I fill with a calculated amount of sparge water, stir, let rest, vorlauf and then continue the lauter. Sometimes I use multiple sparges. I calculate these with BrewSmith.
Stirring will not draw tannins, because as was already said, this happens with pH and pressure. With stirring there is no increase in pressure--just agitation. As for squeezing the bag, I'm of the opinion that it would take far more pressure to draw out tannins than you could possibly provide with a little squeeze. Others disagree and are free to not squeeze their own bag. I promise not to squeeze anyone else's bag against their will--ever. Wait! That didn't sound right for some reason.
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