Belgian Dark Strong Ale The Pious - Westvleteren 12 style quad - multiple

Williams 728
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jeetaman said:
Here may be a dumb question. I have never had a Westy - 12, but is it close to La Trappe - Koningshoeven?
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The LT Quad (Dominus) leans more toward the phenolic and caramel without the subtle dried fruit of a Westy. The mouth-feel and carbonation are similar.
 
Are you saying the Westy is less bitter? I thought the Westy is the one with 2X the IBU's
 
Yes... the aging allows for the true balanced final product of this fine beer. Mine is 2 months old, not really "on tap" but I sample it once a week or so to follow it's progress. It's really coming into it's own the last couple of weeks. Hoping to age it till June when a friend comes back in town.

CSI said:
It's a good line of discussion that hasn't been brought up enough on this thread. How the lupulin components mellow over time is probably one of the keys to the Westy 12's success.
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meadowstream said:
All quads have ~40 IBU. The bitterness will not be IPA-like noticeable because 10% alcohol contributes quite a bit of sweetness that offsets that bitterness.
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I wouldn't say all. For example, Rochefort 10 has 27IBU. The BJCP guidelines for dark strongs say 20-35 IBU.
 
afr0byte said:
I wouldn't say all. For example, Rochefort 10 has 27IBU. The BJCP guidelines for dark strongs say 20-35 IBU.
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Speaking of which; CSI ... What happened to the Rochefort 12 recipie? It disappeared before I got a chance to brew it ( I'm a fan)?
 
afr0byte said:
I wouldn't say all. For example, Rochefort 10 has 27IBU. The BJCP guidelines for dark strongs say 20-35 IBU.
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Right. The Rochefort 10 would not, I think, be considered a quad - would it? A typical dubbel would be ~30 IBU. You need, IMO, more bittering to balance the higher alcohol of the quad - which is what is generally done.

BJCP treats all strong dark the same. I think quads push slightly past the parameters of the guidelines - but dubbels sit in the middle of the guidelines. Do you think this is true or do you see this differently?
 
meadowstream said:
Right. The Rochefort 10 would not, I think, be considered a quad - would it? A typical dubbel would be ~30 IBU. You need, IMO, more bittering to balance the higher alcohol of the quad - which is what is generally done.

BJCP treats all strong dark the same. I think quads push slightly past the parameters of the guidelines - but dubbels sit in the middle of the guidelines. Do you think this is true or do you see this differently?
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It is most definitely a quad. It is 11.30% alc. Maybe mixing up 8 and 10?
 
meadowstream said:
Right. The Rochefort 10 would not, I think, be considered a quad - would it? A typical dubbel would be ~30 IBU. You need, IMO, more bittering to balance the higher alcohol of the quad - which is what is generally done.

BJCP treats all strong dark the same. I think quads push slightly past the parameters of the guidelines - but dubbels sit in the middle of the guidelines. Do you think this is true or do you see this differently?
Click to expand...

The Rochefort 10 is a quad. Also, if you look at the commercial examples for Belgian Dark Strong the first beer listed is Westy 12. Dubbels are definitely not part of the Dark Strong guidelines, as they have their own category.
 
Oophaga said:
It is most definitely a quad. It is 11.30% alc. Maybe mixing up 8 and 10?
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Must be mixing them up. I thought the number (8, 10, 12) was related to degrees Plato and assumed (wrongly) that a Westvleteren 12 would be stronger than a Rochefort 10.

Here is BJCP 18-D parameters: OG: 1.065-1.098+ IBUs: 25-40+ FG: 1.014-1.024+ SRM: 7-20 ABV: 7-12+%
 
meadowstream said:
Must be mixing them up. I thought the number (8, 10, 12) was related to degrees Plato and assumed (wrongly) that a Westvleteren 12 would be stronger than a Rochefort 10.

Here is BJCP 18-D parameters: OG: 1.065-1.098+ IBUs: 25-40+ FG: 1.014-1.024+ SRM: 7-20 ABV: 7-12+%
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Those must be something other than BJCP parameters? Perhaps those are brewers association parameters? Plus 18-D is a Golden Strong Ale.
 
CSI said:
We love the Rochefort style and yeast also but are unfamiliar with R12.
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Yeah, I'm an idiot... Never mind. Rochefort 10 is what I was looking for ( and is easily found on your recipe page) but got confused; sorry.

I now return you to you regularly scheduled thread, already in progress...
 
Once the beer is bottled how important is the temperature? Is a garage in the summer time a bad idea?
 
jeetaman said:
Once the beer is bottled how important is the temperature? Is a garage in the summer time a bad idea?
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For a year? Probably not. For 3? You're going to be seeing some funky qualities developing. Also what kind of a garage are we talking about? I have a friend in AZ and his garage will hit 120. That probably wouldn't be good.
 
Ok. It's been 2.5 months now (8 weeks in 68F secondary). Getting the feeling that I should be putting this to bottles soon.

I assume I should re-pitch at bottling time. My thought is to use US-05 1/2 sachet re-hydrated in boiled water and enough organic table sugar to hit my desired volumes of CO2. I'm bottling in regular 22oz bombers and 12 oz. bottles so I'll probably use BeerSmith to calculate to around 2.8 volumes, I don't think I should go much higher than that.

BTW, My Batch hit around 10% ABV.

Your thoughts and comments please....
 
Brewskii said:
Ok. It's been 2.5 months now (8 weeks in 68F secondary). Getting the feeling that I should be putting this to bottles soon.

I assume I should re-pitch at bottling time. My thought is to use US-05 1/2 sachet re-hydrated in boiled water and enough organic table sugar to hit my desired volumes of CO2. I'm bottling in regular 22oz bombers and 12 oz. bottles so I'll probably use BeerSmith to calculate to around 2.8 volumes, I don't think I should go much higher than that.

BTW, My Batch hit around 10% ABV.

Your thoughts and comments please....
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I've used Lalvin EC-1118 (<$1 per 5g packet) for beers 8-11% and bottle carbonation has been fast. Here are some procedures I've written and followed a lot for bottle conditioning. Note, EC-1118 seems to fall to the bottom of the bottling bucket fast, but don't worry and just give the beer a gentle stir before filling the first bottle and maybe a second stir mid-bottling.

Re-yeasting Procedures:

Yeasting dosing rate: 1 million cells/1 mL of finished beer.

20.0e9 yeast cells/gram of dry yeast.
5.0 gal = 18,927 mL
1.0e6 = 20.0e9*x/18,927, x = 0.95 grams of dry yeast

Boil 4 oz of spring water in 4 qt measuring cut, chill to 80F or less.
Sprinkle 1.9g dry yeast on water surface and cover with plastic wrap, let sit for 15 min.
(Note: Measure by weighing full package with top cut off, tare scale and add gradually and keep weighing until about -1.9g)
Stir yeast, pitch 50% of prepared yeast into bottling bucket during the transfer, discard the rest.
 
jeetaman said:
Bummer. In Southern California we don't have such cellars.
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It is really easy to find an old (even free) chest freezer and put a temperature controller on it to turn it into a 55 degree (or whatever cool temp you desire) enviroment for storage. Craigslist will probably yield cheap-to-free equipment and you can buy a controller for ~$40 I would guess.
 
I made something close to CSI's 17X on Monday evening...and wow is the fermentation vigorous. I have had about a gallon blow off from my 15 gallon fermenter over the last 10 hours.
 
I entered this into my clubs BJCP competition and got 1st place for the Belgian Strong Ale category with a 40!!

Brewed the Wednesday before thanksgiving, so still a little green.
 
mjap52 said:
I entered this into my clubs BJCP competition and got 1st place for the Belgian Strong Ale category with a 40!!

Brewed the Wednesday before thanksgiving, so still a little green.
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Congrats! Which version did you brew?
 
bottlebomber said:
Congrats! Which version did you brew?
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Thanks! Probably should have mentioned that! :cross:

It was Sac's old world recipe with the double decoction. I used half homemade candi sugar and half CSI's D-180. Actually received the yeast after we brewed the beer, so it sat without yeast for 2 days. Did a 6 liter starter (no stir plate), decanted, and poured the wort on top.

It peaked at 79* and finished at 1.011. OG was 1.092. Re-pitched half a packet of US 05 at bottling with priming sugar.

I don't have the score sheet yet, but I should get it on Tuesday at the club meeting. I'll post the judges comments when I get them.

Edit: I said CSI's D2, but meant D180.
 
meadowstream said:
I made something close to CSI's 17X on Monday evening...and wow is the fermentation vigorous. I have had about a gallon blow off from my 15 gallon fermenter over the last 10 hours.
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Took gravity sample today: 1.014 18 days after pitching (still active blowoff.). Excellent taste - smooth, not hot, despite 10.5%+ abv. I think this will be excellent.
 
Going to brew this up in a day or so....

I have a hop question--I don't have Northern Brewer. Chinook and Columbus are subs (which I have and have used before in American beers calling for NB), but I am wondering about using them in the Pious? I am going to use Kent Goldings or Fuggles (in place of the Styrian), but am curious about the bittering addition?

I have:
Kent Goldings
Fuggles
Willamette
Magnum
Chinook
Columbus

Anyone want to chime in?
 
TriggerFingers said:
Going to brew this up in a day or so....

I have a hop question--I don't have Northern Brewer. Chinook and Columbus are subs (which I have and have used before in American beers calling for NB), but I am wondering about using them in the Pious? I am going to use Kent Goldings or Fuggles (in place of the Styrian), but am curious about the bittering addition?

I have:
Kent Goldings
Fuggles
Willamette
Magnum
Chinook
Columbus

Anyone want to chime in?
Click to expand...

Personally I would use the EKG or Fuggles. Columbus is way off target, and Chinook is raspy.
 

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