KBS Clone Recipe in Zymurgy!

Which yeast would work best with this recipe: Safale S-04, Safale S-05, or White Labs WLP007? I have all three of these on hand and I can't decide which one to use.

sabitu said:

Which yeast would work best with this recipe: Safale S-04, Safale S-05, or White Labs WLP007? I have all three of these on hand and I can't decide which one to use.

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I used S-05 and it came out very well. Honestly I think the yeast derived flavors are mostly going to be lost beneath the coffee chocolate oak and whiskey additions anyway

Is there any liquid malt extract in this recipe? Or dry only?

I am brewing 15 gallons of this tomorrow morning with 3 brewers. We are using locally roasted coffee and aging it in a 2nd use barrel from Dad's Hat Rye Whiskey (also local). Should be fun, alot of work but should be fun.

For those bottling this beer, what is your target carb level? Mine has been on oak/bourbon for 3 weeks and I'm getting ready to bottle. Thanks.

Brewed this yesterday.

Wow, what a spectacular mess the chocolate makes.

I used (first time) my new Stainless Brewing Hop Spider. It worked very well, until I tried to recirculate the wort through it post boil. It had a conglomerated mass of goop by the time I had finally drained my kettle. For some reason, I didn't achieve the proper OG, even though I boiled off a respectable amount of wort (more than I wanted actually). If the hydrometer reading is to be believed I'm shy of my target OG is about 9 points too low, mine was 1.086, target 1.095 I think the whisky addition will make up for that however.

I ended up splitting into two batches, into half I pitched Roeselare Blend for a sour beer. The other half I used Safale S05.

Let you all know in a year how this turned out!

TD

Hey guys - I've soaked some oak cubes in bourbon for a few weeks and I'm ready to rack to secondary and add them. Should I add just the soaked cubes or all of the bourbon it's soaking in too? I feel like dumping in the bourbon will add more oak flavor, but I don't want the bourbon to be overpowering.

jamsomito said:

Hey guys - I've soaked some oak cubes in bourbon for a few weeks and I'm ready to rack to secondary and add them. Should I add just the soaked cubes or all of the bourbon it's soaking in too? I feel like dumping in the bourbon will add more oak flavor, but I don't want the bourbon to be overpowering.

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Too late to follow my advice, but what I did was: soak the oak on bourbon for 12 or 24 hours, dumped out the liquid to get rid of the harsh oak flavors, soaked the oak in bourbon for a few weeks and then dumped the liquid and all in the secondary.

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stompbox said:

Too late to follow my advice, but what I did was: soak the oak on bourbon for 12 or 24 hours, dumped out the liquid to get rid of the harsh oak flavors, soaked the oak in bourbon for a few weeks and then dumped the liquid and all in the secondary.

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Ah bummer. So how about all the oak and half the bourbon?

I am trying to figure this out as well.

My initial plan was to let it finish out primary. From there things get a little strange. I split my batch, with half the wort getting pitched with Roeselare Blend for a sour beer. I do not intend this sour half to come into contact with other equipment. It is getting racked into a better bottle. I'll need to carefully label the racking equipment of course. The other non-sour half, into a glass carboy.

From this point, I suspect I would be ready to add the next dose of coffee since its now into secondary fermentation. Tomorrow will be 1 week since pitching yeast for me, and it seemed to have a somewhat slow start. I'm going to let it go another week then rack it and add coffee dose.

When to add the oak and bourbon seems a big question to me. The timing of all of this seems strange to me. Supposedly this beer is aged for a year in gypsum caves in barrels. Seems like it should be aging in contact with the oak. So I am thinking about adding this Oak right at the same racking time. I am planning to let it age in the carboys for a year. I've had my Oak Chips soaking in a 1QT mason jar filled with Jameson Irish Whisky, a little twist on the recipe, for nearly a year now. I want to bottle finish these beers, and was thinking about putting the non-sour into a keg first to get appropriate carbonation levels.

Once concern I have about adding the whisky is that the ABV will be so high, I will not get good bottle conditioning due to the high ABV. I'm probably going to be using CBC-1 yeast therefore, which has a high ABV tolerance, and add a pack to the bottling buckets after re-hydration. I'm thinking maybe one pack per half. However, the sour half I am wondering if the bugs and yeast blend which includes a sherry strain, will be fine as-is. Force carbing half and then bottling the non-soured half from the keg, I may be able to save on some yeast.

I have a bottle of Almanac Bourbon Sour beer that I'm dying to try. I may crack it open next weekend as see how I like the Oak effect and help use that opinion to determine how much Oak chips to add. I believe the oak flavor fades slowly over time, not sure about the bourbon flavor. Maybe I will taste a sample of the wort as well while racking to see what a splash of whisky will do. I am undecided on if I want to add the Whisky from the mason jar, which will likely be an Oak Bomb, or add fresh whisky...

Thanks for any advice.

TD

Subscribing...

Yeah I've actually been to the gypsum mines they age the beer in. Its an abandoned mine purchased by a storage company that now leases space and advertises it as a constant temp and humidity environment. Its always dry and 50 degrees F, if anyone can mimic those conditions long term... More info here if you're interested: http://www.undergroundsecuritycompany.com/history.html

Here's what I'm going to do. I'm bottling half of my batch today without any oak or bourbon. Should be a good coffee stout. The other half I'm splitting into two, one gallon glass carboys. I'm going to put half the oak cubes in one, and in the other I'll put the rest of the oak cubes and half of my oaked bourbon. I'll save the other half of the bourbon for another batch of something else later.

So I'll have:
2 gal coffee stout
1 gal coffee stout + 1oz bourbon soaked oak cubes
1 gal coffee stout + 1oz bourbon soaked oak cubes + 4oz oaked bourbon.

If one is weak and the other strong I'll mix them before bottling, otherwise should be an interesting experiment

I'll use regular priming sugar and bottle condition the plain brew. Probably the same method for the others as I don't see any other way (no keg system here unfortunately, although after aging for a year, who knows).

so let us know what you think about each portion.

I need to move on mine next weekend.

I could always wait on adding the oak and bourbon I suppose.

I think that, with all things, time cures all. Too much oak and time should correct.

I will be thinking about this all week I suppose. Went to a beer tasting today, and they had several (4) stouts. Will be interesting to taste the hydro samples next weekend.

TD

jamsomito said:

Yeah I've actually been to the gypsum mines they age the beer in. Its an abandoned mine purchased by a storage company that now leases space and advertises it as a constant temp and humidity environment. Its always dry and 50 degrees F, if anyone can mimic those conditions long term... More info here if you're interested: http://www.undergroundsecuritycompany.com/history.html

Here's what I'm going to do. I'm bottling half of my batch today without any oak or bourbon. Should be a good coffee stout. The other half I'm splitting into two, one gallon glass carboys. I'm going to put half the oak cubes in one, and in the other I'll put the rest of the oak cubes and half of my oaked bourbon. I'll save the other half of the bourbon for another batch of something else later.

So I'll have:
2 gal coffee stout
1 gal coffee stout + 1oz bourbon soaked oak cubes
1 gal coffee stout + 1oz bourbon soaked oak cubes + 4oz oaked bourbon.

If one is weak and the other strong I'll mix them before bottling, otherwise should be an interesting experiment

I'll use regular priming sugar and bottle condition the plain brew. Probably the same method for the others as I don't see any other way (no keg system here unfortunately, although after aging for a year, who knows).

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Great idea for a test!

I'm planning on brewing this in ~3 wks and dumping on a yeast cake (US-05) from an IPA (racked to secondary for dry hop). Anyone running fermentation high, say 72*-74* to ensure full attenuation since any fusel off-flavors would probably be masked by the bourbon/oak/coffee/chocolate anyway? And if not, they'd probably mellow out completely during aging.

thx

Is 3 oz oak chips to 5.5 gallons considered a light medium or heavy "dose" for this brew? I've got the chips soaking in whisky for 10 months. Planned to add this week.

Wow, 10 months? That's some patience.

I've only added chips once, but here's what I've seen recommended:

- 2 oz per 5 gallon batch
- (and this is pretty much overkill, but can't argue with the math) If the chips are two inches wide, four inches long and 0.25 inches thick they will each provide 19 square inches of surface area (two sides at eight square inches, two edges at one square inch and two edges at 0.5 square inch). Eight of these chips per gallon of beer will give about the same surface-to-volume ratio (149) as an oak barrel. So set aside 43 of these chips for the 5.5-gallon batch of beer.

Wow.

Lots of math there. Maybe I'll cut back on the oak.

I also have a sour/regular split batch of consecreation ale clone going on. Maybe I'll put some leftover oak in that

Not intended to be snarky btw, thanks for the breakdown. Also, it wasn't necessarily patience, I got the oak going last march, and didn't brew the beer until Nov/Dec. Mostly just lazy. What can I say, once you hit 40 (and beyond) time seems to flow a little differently than it did before 40...

Anyways... Looking forward to trying this one.

TD

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I have to admit that it wasn't my math. I probably stole it from someone on here. I found it in my notes.

And LOL on the timing.

I think I screwd a little on this recipe.
I did use the unsweetened cocoa nibs, but did not use the Belgian bittersweet chocolate.
Is is possible to add it with the coffee on secondary? Like if I boil the water with it and then use the water on french press to add the coffee?

Nobody

I'd add it before the coffee, I believe it'll take a little longer to extract the the right chocolate level, while I understand coffee to be fairly quick. Boil some water and make a syrup type if your worried about sanitation. Not too much water though... Or just add it...


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Blew off the blow off tube...smells great

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Sucks man, but not really surprising considering how little head space you had.

Due to typically getting low-ish brewhouse efficiency and equipment size limitations I've decided I'd just try to make a half batch (2.5 gal) of this recipe this weekend. I'm assuming I won't hit my typical 65% so I estimated it would be more like 55%. So my grain bill is a bit inflated but I'll play it by ear and see how the pre-boil gravity comes out. I also plan to mash a bit thinner (1.25 qt/gal) and throw an extra gallon of water in the sparge. I'll probably be boiling off all day long unless, for some unforeseen miracle, my pre-boil gravity comes out too high...which has never happened. We'll see how it comes out.

PS: I'm shooting for the 1.110 OG version that was posted earlier.

So what's the consensus again on adding the second dose of coffee to this beer?

Mine is getting ready to be racked, and I was planning to add the coffee at that time.

Can I just add ground coffee to the fermenter, or should I add cold brewed coffee.
Are there concerns about sanitation with either method (FYI I am doing half my batch as a sour, so not really concerned about that half).

Thanks.

TD

I just planned on putting the required about of grounds in a French press with however many oz of water the coffee packaging recommends and letting it set over night. Then I'll just press and pour into my secondary. That's how I interpreted it anyways.

I just brewed the half batch today. My OG was 1.109 and my volume was 3 gallons. I was shooting for 2.5 but I over estimated my trub loss by a 1/2 gallon. Other than that it went perfect. Got my Kona in the freezer, and my oak cubes in the bourbon; just waiting.

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OK then. I think I was getting freaked out about the possibility of adding germs.

I ordered my Kona a while back and has been in freezer. Those vac seal bags, as I understand, accept the hot beans right from the roaster more or less and they vent through the one way valve so should be semi-sanitary from the roasting. Add the weeks spent in the freezer and I should be good. Seems I did this the last time without issue doing the regular breakfast stout recipe. Using the french press cold brew method. Boiled all the french press apparatus in water and going to let cool and use the water to brew the coffee (as long as it tastes OK) in the sanitized french press.

Question about the 11.2%ABV
I estimate (using BeerSmith) 9.5% ABV from the brewing process alone. I assume the 11.2% in the commercial version comes from from some unadulterated bourbon in the mix. I am wondering how to replicate this part. Last March, I filled a quart mason jar with 6oz oak CHIPS and filled the remainder with Jameson Irish Whisky. So I tasted the whisky tonight and its REALLY oakey. I don't think I'd drink it straight, chilled or over ice. too overpowering. I don't think I want to add this to the beer. I read some stuff about using oak in beer/wine by morebeer.com. They talk about the chips not necessarily being of the same quality as the staves or other oak products, and may never have been seasoned or part of a barrel. So I ordered some stave segments. I heard (in this thread or the Consecration Ale kit by More Beer thread) that some folks take these segments and microwave them with a "few inches" of wine (which is used in that consecration ale) to impart flavor by going through heat/cool cycles. So I got to thinking that this might work for the KBS recipe as well.
So tonight, I've set about 4.4 oz oak staves into a small saucepan, along with a small amount of bourbon to cover and heated to about 170 when I notice the boiling of the ethanol I assume. I kill the heat, and I will let cool and repeat the process once more, possibly a third time. In doing so, I can only assume that the alcohol/ethanol in the bourbon will be nearly gone. Is there a way I can estimate an extra, unboiled bourbon addition to make up the 1.7% ABV differential between my 9.5% I'm getting from BeerSmith, and the commercial of 11.2%?

Here is what I did, but I'm not at all convinced that it is accurate.

640oz beer (5 gal) at 9.5% ABV equals 60.8 oz of 100% ethanol theoretically.
640oz beer (5 gal) at 11.2% ABV equals 71.7 oz of 100% ethanol theoretically.
the difference in oz is 10.9oz of 100% ethanol.
Bourbon is usually 80 proof or 40% ethanol. Therefore, 27.25oz of 80 proof bourbon will account for the additional 10.9oz of ethanol in the commercial example and should result in a 11.2% ABV beer. However, having just added 27.25 oz, I now have appromimately 5.25 gallons of beer... So... To get a bit more complicated, and to figure that a fifth of alcohol is approx 25oz, lets say:

640 - 25 = 615oz x0.095 = 58.8oz etoh
25.36 oz x 0.40 = 10.1oz etoh
5 gallons of the blended beer with one fifth of bourbon will contain 68.9oz etoh or 10.7%ABV

What about a 1L bottle?

now we have 606.2oz beer @9.5% and 33.8oz bourbon at 40% blended we get 11.1% which is close enough for me.

However, it seems that this is a crapload of bourbon to be adding to a keg..

does this make any sense? I've never tasted KBS before, so I need to go with what all-yall advise.

TD

As far as the cold brewed coffee goes you're probably right to want to sanitize the French press and boil/cool the water first. Not much you can do for the beans I guess. I'm ok with assuming they won't spoil the batch.

To get the 11.2% I had to use the scale button in Beersmith. I then tinkered with my grain percentages and hop IBU's until they closely matched the original recipe's.

I didn't put a lot of thought into the oak and bourbon. I have (for my half batch) 1 oz of American Medium Toast oak cubes in 1 cup of bourbon. They're in a sealed Pyrex container and will be for about 2 weeks. I plan to rack onto them and taste after two weeks. I'll leave it on them for 2 months or so; depending on taste. This was the advice of my LHBS.

I know that deviates from the original recipe but it's what felt right to me. I have not accounted for how much that 1 cup of bourbon will increase my ABV.

pdm1982 said:

As far as the cold brewed coffee goes you're probably right to want to sanitize the French press and boil/cool the water first. Not much you can do for the beans I guess. I'm ok with assuming they won't spoil the batch.

To get the 11.2% I had to use the scale button in Beersmith. I then tinkered with my grain percentages and hop IBU's until they closely matched the original recipe's.

I didn't put a lot of thought into the oak and bourbon. I have (for my half batch) 1 oz of American Medium Toast oak cubes in 1 cup of bourbon. They're in a sealed Pyrex container and will be for about 2 weeks. I plan to rack onto them and taste after two weeks. I'll leave it on them for 2 months or so; depending on taste. This was the advice of my LHBS.

I know that deviates from the original recipe but it's what felt right to me. I have not accounted for how much that 1 cup of bourbon will increase my ABV.

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In order to calculate the amount, you'll need to know the volume of bourbon you add (not just the total volume of oak cubes plus bourbon) plus the ABV of the beer and the number of ounces. There seems to be some leeway in kegs and carboys as far as how many oz until filled, and when racking I usually stop when its getting really close to gas dip tube. This makes accurate measuring difficult. You could get a weight on your keg when its empty, and calculate the weight when near full (enough to take that extra 8 oz of bourbon), and then using the know FG, you could theoretically calculate the number of Fluid Oz. from there it would be simple math to calculate the dilution effect of 8oz 40% alcohol on the volume of beer in the keg and its known ABV.

ANyways. As per my usual, I have overthought this one to death.
I think I'm going to try a bottle of breakfast stout and add 4T+1t bourbon to it and see its overly boozy... my guess- yes.

TD

Well on top if that, mine came out shy of OG and FG. It's 8.8abv with 1.020 FG. Tastes pretty great. Brewed in December. Need to add the cold brewed coffee and the oak. Do you all think I should hold off to see if racking rousted up some yeast and I drop a few more points? Concerns that adding any Bourbon at this time will stunt the remaining yeast.


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I just checked my SG after a little over a week in the primary. I'm at 1.028. I'm glad to see it under 1.030. I enjoyed the hydrometer sample after getting my reading. It tasted like strong coffee, a little chocolate, and a lot of booze. I think it's going to take a while for it to mellow out. I'll be racking to secondary with oak, bourbon, and Kona in a week or so.

Mine is sitting in a secondary now with plans of bottling this weekend. My mash was less efficient than I considered, even after adjusting low and I ended up having to add 1.5# of DME to get up to 1.100. I overpitched some harvested chico cal ale yeast (mason jar full of slurry) and it finished at 1.014. I only have 3gallons so I added 2/3 cup of bourbon. I think it's going to need more before bottling. Right now it's very coffee forward. Almost wishing I'd not added any to the secondary. It tasted phenomenal prior to racking. I'm not planning to drink it until the Fall so hopefully some of that coffee will fade.

I just racked this to the secondary last night. It had been in the primary for just over 2 weeks. I lost about .5 a gallon to the yeast cake and chocolate trub at the bottom which leaves my small batch at about 2.75 gallons. I threw in 1 cup of bourbon with 1 oz of American medium toast oak cubes and 1 cup of cold brewed Kona coffee. Smelled great before and after pitching the bourbon, oak, and coffee. This morning when I looked at the carboy I noticed quite a bit more trub settling on the bottom. I estimate that I'll lose about another .25 gallon when I go to bottle it. I'm probably going to let it set for about 2 months before bottling. Going to sample every week or two to make sure not to over oak it.

I had a little more than I though; almost 3.5 gallons at bottling (got a case of bombers and 15 12oz bottles). I did end up adding another 1/3c of bourbon. Still tasted a bit light to me; overpowered by the coffee so I added another 1/4c after that.

I'm really hoping the coffee fades by the Fall. To do it over again, I wouldn't add the coffee to the secondary. Tasted better before that.

I was a few points shy on my mash target when I brewed this one. I calculated that to attain the 11.2% ABV of the founders real stuff, that I'd need to add about 1 L of bourbon. I ended up adding about 12 oz so far when I added the oak. I think that I'll probably taste and test again in a month. I'm not necessarily sure I want a 11.2% beer. Also I think once you do add the bourbon, that measuring your SG is going to be skewed. At this point I don't expect any further fermentation though.
Had about 6" of trub in one primary (the one I added souring blend to for primary pitch). Lost a lot when I racked to secondary, only about 2.5-3 gal. The other is a full 5 gal. It was quite the challenge to brew this big of a beer in my system and shoot for 10 gallons.

TD


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edit-

score!! Looks like I'm going to be getting some REAL KBS very soon! Going to be from a KEG. I would love to keep it until mine is ready around Christmas time. I doubt I'll be able to manage. This will employ a growler fill, a soda bottle and a carbonator cap. Once I can get my mitts on it, I think probably best to leave in the soda bottle rather than attempt to transfer to glass, or a mini-keg, though I am highly tempted to mini-keg and dispense on Nitro. I wonder if Founders serve on Nitro in house....

TD

Anybody get good results with WLP004 Irish Ale Yeast. I saw one person in this thread mention using it and they didn't seem to get good attenuation.

i just found this thread and am glad you guys are enjoying this beer - it does look tasty. but to call this any kind of "clone" seems waaayyy off to me. when i tried KBS for the first time this year, it came close in bourbon county stout in mouthfeel, alcohol and sweetness. and my bourbon county stout has a finishing gravity of around 1.040 (!). you are never going to get that big of a beer with this recipe.

Clones are assumed Guidelines!
KBS Clone Recipe sounds better than KBS Guideline Recipe. You will never repeat the water, brew process or anything from the original brewery.
.....so, Clones (guidelines) get u close to the recipes that we enjoy brew on


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