No carbonation, could recipe be wrong?

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texas red

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Hello,

We haven't brewed in a while and finally decided to start back. We have been bottled now for July 15 and have no carbonation. We were attempting our first double IPA. I think it may be a bad recipe. (?) It called for 11 pounds of extract. And we used two White Labs yeast. There was only one bag of priming sugar, though. Maybe that just wasn't enough to get it going? Any ideas?

I thought it might be helpful if I was more specific:

1/2 lb Munich Malt
1 lb Crystal 20LMalt
soaked for 25 minutes
Added 1 gallon water returned to boil
3 LB Munich Extract
3LBExtra pale Extract
1LB Amber DME
5 LB Amber Extract
Brought to a boil

1 3/4 oz Summit (60 Minutes)
1/4 oz Summit

3/4 oz Centennial (15 Minutes)

1 oz Amarillo
1 oz Palisade
1/4 oz Centennial (5 Minutes)

2White Labs
California Ale 001

Brewed on June 23rd
Transferred on July 1

1 bag of priming sugar
I don't know the amount or weight

Bottled on July 15
Yesterday, still no carbonation. Where did we mess up? It tastes very malty and has no hop flavor.
 
Not knowing the amount or weight of the priming sugar is going to make it pretty tough to diagnose the issue.

That said, how large was the batch? I didn't see it listed in your post.

If it was 5 gallons, 11 lbs. of extract in a batch that size would make a pretty big beer - and it's my understanding that bigger beers can take quite a bit longer to carbonate.
 
The recipe doesn't say, they only gave me the one bag when they put together the kit. I melted the sugar and then cooled it and put it into my primary, then I added the beer to the melted cooled sugar and bottled.

The batch was for 5 1/4 gallons. It was supposed to be a clone of Ninkasi Tricerahops. I got a beer to compare and the color is hugely different. Not to mention the malt, etc. I went back and looked at all of my other recipes and the most extract I ever used was 7 lbs. Should I just be patient and see what happens or should I toss it out and start over?
 
I doubt it's a priming sugar problem if they gave you a bag for 5 gallons, that amount is based on total volume not how big the beer is. If you add more sugar you may risk eventually getting bombs. I think it's more likely that it either just needs more time because it's a high gravity beer or you've reached the limit for your yeast. What was the OG/FG? If that is all DME it looks like you're up in the 1.100 range, so you underpitched with just 2 vials and no starter and the yeast were likely already quite stressed.
 
I can't find where we wrote the OG. The FG was 1.014. Recipe said it should be 1.018. Does that seem unusual to you?

The only DME was the 1 LB of Amber. We had a lot of fermentation action in the primary. We even had some slow fermentation action after we transferred to the secondary.

The bottles were stored in our spare room, which is dark most of the time. The temp ranges between 72 and 80. We have gently turned them up and back a few times. We have chilled and tried four 12 oz bottles and each has had chill haze. Even after being in the fridge for several days. The beer at room temp. is very clear.

What do you think we should do? Can this batch be saved with time? Should I take a bottle and the recipe to my homebrew store?
 
What a bummer. Zero carbonation? A warm, shaken bottle won't even hiss when opened?

I come up with 1.086 OG assuming you did a mini-mash on the grains. Your FG seems low but irrelevant to your problem. Your yeast has a "high" alcohol tolerance so it should be able to carb your beer.

What do you mean you "melted" your sugar? Do you mean you dissolved it in boiling water?

Is there yeast sediment in the bottom of your bottles that looks like what you get when you conditioned your other beers?

You could test the viability of the yeast in your bottles. Take some DME, dissolve it in some water and make a low gravity wort. Say 1.020 or so. Shake up a bottle of your beer and dump it in the starter you just made.

Take an SG reading of one of your bottles. If the SG reading is 2 or more points over your FG, that would suggest that your yeast is not able to ferment any further. I would put some ec-1118 yeast in the bottles, recap and see if it carbonates. If the SG is the same as your FG, that would suggest either your bottle capping didn't seal the bottles or you forgot your priming sugar at bottling time. That would require priming each bottle and recapping.

As far as the color, I would assume it was darker than tricerahops. You should read up on late extract additions during boil. Boiling ALL the extract for the full time caramelizes it and darkens the color. It also reduces hop utilization.
 
dgr said:
What a bummer. Zero carbonation? A warm, shaken bottle won't even hiss when opened?

Zero. No hiss even after a good shake when warm.

I come up with 1.086 OG assuming you did a mini-mash on the grains. Your FG seems low but irrelevant to your problem. Your yeast has a "high" alcohol tolerance so it should be able to carb your beer.

What do you mean you "melted" your sugar? Do you mean you dissolved it in boiling water?

Yes. Dissolved in 2 cups of water that we boiled and the priming sugar, boiled again for 1 minute exactly then cooled to 80.

Is there yeast sediment in the bottom of your bottles that looks like what you get when you conditioned your other beers?

There is a very, very thin scree of sediment. I had to use a LED flashlight to see it.

You could test the viability of the yeast in your bottles. Take some DME, dissolve it in some water and make a low gravity wort. Say 1.020 or so. Shake up a bottle of your beer and dump it in the starter you just made.

Take an SG reading of one of your bottles. If the SG reading is 2 or more points over your FG, that would suggest that your yeast is not able to ferment any further. I would put some ec-1118 yeast in the bottles, recap and see if it carbonates. If the SG is the same as your FG, that would suggest either your bottle capping didn't seal the bottles or you forgot your priming sugar at bottling time. That would require priming each bottle and recapping.

You just went miles beyond my skill set.

As far as the color, I would assume it was darker than tricerahops. You should read up on late extract additions during boil. Boiling ALL the extract for the full time caramelizes it and darkens the color. It also reduces hop utilization.
Click to expand...

Oh, brother, is it darker. It's the color a Porter at least.
 
Who gave you this recipe? Definitely seems under hopped for such a big beer. Also, when using extract it's generally best to use the lightest you can get and then use steeped grains for additional color/flavor.
As for your carbonation issue, can you describe your bottling procedure with a little more detail? Maybe the sugar wasn't thoroughly mixed. Maybe your caps aren't tight. Maybe you didn't leave any headspace. Need more details...
 
Let's see if this makes more sense.

Take a gravity reading on one of the beers. If it is higher than 1.014 then your yeast didn't ferment the bottling sugar and is kaput. Get some champagne yeast, dip all your bottle necks in starsan, open, drop a few grains of yeast in them and recap.

If the reading is 1.014 or lower, the yeast ate the priming sugar and your capper is FUBAR and didn't seal the caps or you forgot the sugar at bottling time. That will require you to prime each bottle with a small amount of sugar or carb tabs. I think the amount is 1 tsp or one sugar cube but you should check on that.

Another option. Pour 50/50 this beer and another beer in a glass and drink.
 
Well, it is not the recipe that is the problem. It is a big beer so it might take longer. It could be badly sealed caps. Checking the gravity as dgr suggested would give a starting point.
 
Demus said:
Who gave you this recipe?
I got the recipe and ingredients from Austin Homebrew.

Definitely seems under hopped for such a big beer. Also, when using extract it's generally best to use the lightest you can get and then use steeped grains for additional color/flavor.

Tell me about it. You can't even taste that we added any hops. We steeped the grains in 2 gallons of water for 25 minutes. Then added 1 gallon of water and brought it to a boil.

As for your carbonation issue, can you describe your bottling procedure with a little more detail? Maybe the sugar wasn't thoroughly mixed. Maybe your caps aren't tight. Maybe you didn't leave any headspace. Need more details...
Click to expand...

We put the glass carboy on the counter a few hours before transferring. Then dissolved the sugar in the water and poured it into the primary. Then we transferred the beer in and stirred it around. Then we filled our clean bottles with the filler until the beer was to the top of the opening. Then attached our preboiled caps onto the bottle using a clamp on capper. (sorry, I don't know what the gadget is called) When looking at the 12oz amber long neck, there is 1 3/4 from the top of the beer to the top of the cap.
 
dgr said:
Let's see if this makes more sense.

Take a gravity reading on one of the beers. If it is higher than 1.014 then your yeast didn't ferment the bottling sugar and is kaput. Get some champagne yeast, dip all your bottle necks in starsan, open, drop a few grains of yeast in them and recap.

If the reading is 1.014 or lower, the yeast ate the priming sugar and your capper is FUBAR and didn't seal the caps or you forgot the sugar at bottling time. That will require you to prime each bottle with a small amount of sugar or carb tabs. I think the amount is 1 tsp or one sugar cube but you should check on that.
This, I can understand!
Another option. Pour 50/50 this beer and another beer in a glass and drink.
Click to expand...

This sounds like a great solution, too! I was so bummed. I really didn't want to pour another batch out.
 
kh54s10 said:
Well, it is not the recipe that is the problem. It is a big beer so it might take longer.
Maybe I just need to be more patient....I just get anxious, you know?

It could be badly sealed caps. Checking the gravity as dgr suggested would give a starting point.
Click to expand...

I'm going to follow dgr's advice. If I open a beer that I know to be carbonated, say one of the Sierra Nevada's I have in the fridge, could I recap it and wait a day or two to see if it's carbonated? Would that be a way to test my bottle capping device? Any advice on how to test the capper and caps I have?
 
That will work fine but it might take some time to lose the carbonation. I've poured a beer out of a 22 oz bottle and recapped them for later consumption. You could open one, recap, shake and spray some starsan on it or stick the neck in some liquid and look for bubbles.
 
That's brilliant!

Thanks, Mozart, chickypad, Demus, dgr, and kh54s10 for so much the solid advice. Seriously, I was moments away from dumping this onto my compost.
 
I'd email Austin HB too. That's a jacked up recipe and wouldn't come close to a DIPA in any conditions. They're pretty reputable and should take care of you in some way...
 
Couldn't hurt, right? Everyone there has always been so helpful and patient. I really like the fact that they're super knowledgeable and they don't mind sharing what they know. Do you think taking a bottle to them would be bad form? Do you know what I mean? I don't want to be "that person".
 
Everybody is "that guy" at some point. :D If you go in acting like a DH, you will be that guy. But if you go in there and tell them, "Man, I feel like a real DH," I think any LHBS will try to help you ... except the closest one to me which I try to avoid or immediately leave if the DH that works there is on the floor.

Do take a SG reading when you get a chance.
 
Opened a bottle to check the SG. There was carbonation! At least in that one. Just stuck 4 more into the fridge! Hot Dog!!! When I poured the bottle into the container I couldn't read the hydrometer for the bubbles! The SG was 1.018. Right on target. Now, about the recipe. It's no DIPA for sure. But the urgency to contact AHB has very much ebbed. Super malty with carbonation trumps super malty flat any day in my beer book. So, now, I'm going to relax and ....you know the rest! Cheers, all!:mug:
 
I'm glad the carbonation worked out but they still sold you a jacked up kit...
 

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