N/A sparkling cider recipe? Help?

So it's entirely possible that Mrs. Jsmith will not be able to drink alcohol for the next nine months if you catch my drift

I thought it would be cool if I could pipeline a sparkling apple cider for her but I'm really having issues finding a recipe or methods for carbonating apple juice without ending up with alcohol in it. I don't have a kegging setup nor could I afford one so what are my options here?

My first thought was sugar free apple juice, add 3oz sugar, then pitch champagne yeast and bottle but that would end up with a very minor abv. Could I use carbonation tablets? I also saw something on the net called "tap a draft" but honestly it looks like a piece of junk and I want bottles.

Any help or advice is greatly appreciated!

Still looking for advice on this if anyone is willing to help...

I found a brand at Schnucks, our local grocer, you can get a wine bottles worth for about 2.30 but after 1 bottle we both agreed it was WAAAAY to sweet and not carbonated enough.. Gave the both of us a stomach ache.

I am not an expert, but I think this may be hard without spending lots of money. You can force carb if u have a keg and what sounds like $500+ in equipment. This is basically something that can hold pressure and a tank of CO2.

If there is something like the carb tablets that u speak of, there must be some reason no one says to use them. Perhaps taste, cost or availability. They may also still be using yeast and sugar creating alcohol.

It would taste terrible, but you could test putting a alcho seltzer tablet in a bottle and see if it carbs it. If it does, maybe u can find out what chemical is used to make this reaction. Maybe this is what the carb tabs are?

Perhaps the soda making forums would be more helpful since they are use to carbing NA drinks. There may be some cheap workarounds.

I read up a bit on the tabs, they are made of sugar, dissolve, then reactivate left over yeast so I don't think that will be an option for me.

Here is the Tap-A_Draft system I found: click

Still unsure of its durability, it's a love hate thing when reading reviews.

I think I'll pop over to the soda forums and read up on carbing techniques like you said. Cheers!

Heck, you could do that easy. I make soda all the time, and champagne yeast is what carbonates it.

I wouldn't even use artificial sweeteners- just like with soda, use real sugar and bottle in plastic bottles. When the bottles get hard, stick them in the fridge (to halt fermentation).

There are soda recipes posted, as well as tips in the soda forum that could help.

What I would do is just get some great cider, add a cup of sugar (or honey or brown sugar, etc), add 1/2 teaspoon champagne yeast and bottle it in plastic soda bottles. When the bottles are hard, stick them in the fridge. That'd be all there is to it!

From my own research into making homemade soda, it sounds like if you just ferment long enough to get carbonation, the ABV is below .5%. I don't know if even that low of alcohol content is bad for the fetus, but I just thought I'd share that number with you.

Maybe another option could be to take frozen concentrate AJ and add sparkling water to it. Maybe not as cheap as juice + sugar + yeast, but it would be a non-alcoholic option.

Also, congratulations!

Thanks guys (and gals!), I really would like to steer completely clear of any alcohol content if at all possible. However... I read that FASD is caused when women drink an excessive amount of alcohol so I would think that the occasional glass of .5% cider wouldn't hurt anything but this would also be my first kiddo, I'm overly paranoid I suppose..

I've also been pondering a way to get that dry flavor, neither one of us are big on the sweet flavor.

Thanks Meadhorn! Not a bad idea at all, I could try that out for pretty cheap so maybe we'll give it a go. Worst case, out 5 bucks.

Sorry for double posting, Yooper - Do you normally use 2 liter soda bottles?

You are too paranoid. My wife drank a beer or glass of wine almost every day with both of our boys. They couldn't be any healthier. Fetuses like booze too, why deprive them?!?! (This is a joke... for the sensitive amongst us)

You will always have some alcohol unless you force carb. Do you have a keg system?

If so, either buy some carb caps and pour your juice into PET bottles and carb. Or put the juice in a keg and hook it up. If you are fermenting you are making alcohol . NO need to pipeline, no need to ferment, just carb up that juice and be done with it.

Old_E said:

You are too paranoid. My wife drank a beer or glass of wine almost every day with both of our boys. They couldn't be any healthier. Fetuses like booze too, why deprive them?!?! (This is a joke... for the sensitive amongst us)

You will always have some alcohol unless you force carb. Do you have a keg system?

If so, either buy some carb caps and pour your juice into PET bottles and carb. Or put the juice in a keg and hook it up. If you are fermenting you are making alcohol . NO need to pipeline, no need to ferment, just carb up that juice and be done with it.

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Good to know I'm being overly paranoid It's good to hear your story though, this makes me feel WAY better about using yeast. I think I'll just go that route, I have a bunch of packets of Montrachet yeast around the house, maybe it will end up tasting like mild Edworts Apfelwein..

Edwort's Sparkling Apfelceider. :cross:

Jsmith82 said:

Good to know I'm being overly paranoid It's good to hear your story though, this makes me feel WAY better about using yeast. I think I'll just go that route, I have a bunch of packets of Montrachet yeast around the house, maybe it will end up tasting like mild Edworts Apfelwein..

Edwort's Sparkling Apfelceider. :cross:

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You are not alone.
I think such a minimal amount of alchohol, the amount produced in the time it takes to carb some pet bottles would be a problem, but that's me, and I'm no doctor. Probably the same as in a N/A beer. I don't know what to tell you about the sweetness. Its the fermentation that gets rid of the sugar.

Jsmith82 said:

Sorry for double posting, Yooper - Do you normally use 2 liter soda bottles?

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I actually prefer the smaller soda bottles, as the yeast sediment gets stirred up with a pour so I want to be able to pour it all in a serving. Plus, just like with commercial soda and ciders, it would go flat quickly if you didn't drink it all at one serving.

For ginger ale, I usually made a 1 quart sized bottle.

I agree that there would be some alcohol present- I've read that .5% is about right. I know that many of my friends make soda with yeast, acknowledging that there will be some alcohol created. I now keg, but I've made soda with my kids when they were little and I didn't have a problem with knowing that there was a very small amount of alcohol in the soda. If this is an issue, then you should absolutely not do it.

If you stop the yeast via refrigeration, I would not use Montrechet or any wine, champagne or lager yeast. These slow when you chill them, but dont completely stop. Use an ale or wheat yeast. Those will stop when you chill them.

Kegging may not be the right option for you, but you can get a good used system for way less than $500. It is not hard to find 2 kegs, hoses, C02 tank and regulator for 150 or less in good used condition if you look around for a while

I picked up 1 gallon of 100% Apple Juice last night, split it between 2 Mr. Beer plastic bottles, added 1/8 tsp montrachet to each, then capped them off and tucked them away to the brew closet. This morning the bottles felt just a little bit firm but not quite "2-Liter Coke" firm, I'll check them again tonight.

Thanks for the heads up Cville, next time I'm at the LHBS I'll pick up a couple packets of dry nottingham and give that a go.

Now I have zero clue how this would change the final product, but you said you wanted it dry and alcohol free. What about fermenting out a cider as you normally would, and then just "burning off" the alcohol? Alcohol boils at something around 170, well below waters boiling point. At that point repitch yeast and priming sugar to carb the dry NA cider.

I've also been trying to get a soft carbonated drink with apple juice using fermentation, trying as suggested above ferment just to carbonation then pasteurize..results great..kids love it and the alcohol content is below 0.5%. It normally takes about max 2 days depending on temperature.

Follow very carefully the precautions in Pappers excellent sticker "easy-stove-top-pasteurizing" though if you are going down this route as you can easily make bottle bombs (letting apple juice go to full fermentation in closed containers you get something like 40 bar - I'm not kidding).

All the best and let us know how it goes..with the baby too !!

downwardzspiral said:

Now I have zero clue how this would change the final product, but you said you wanted it dry and alcohol free. What about fermenting out a cider as you normally would, and then just "burning off" the alcohol? Alcohol boils at something around 170, well below waters boiling point. At that point repitch yeast and priming sugar to carb the dry NA cider.

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That actually is a pretty good idea. I'm not sure though how to get a base measurement for how long I would need to boil it to ensure the alcohol was gone IE if I ferment it down to 0.998, then boil the gallon down to 3 quarts, how could I measure what the ABV is of what's left? Top of the head thoughts, the gravity would still measure the same correct?

Boiling is a bit of a none starter since it ruins the flavor of the cider..what about freezing it ? - and pouring off the alcohol, might be illegal though if I remember right in some areas it is considered as distilling - (the alcohol you end up pouring off doesn't necessarily need to be thrown away...

Haven't tried it since university days..thanks for taking me back to some nice memories of heavy hangovers..!

downwardzspiral said:

Now I have zero clue how this would change the final product, but you said you wanted it dry and alcohol free. What about fermenting out a cider as you normally would, and then just "burning off" the alcohol? Alcohol boils at something around 170, well below waters boiling point. At that point repitch yeast and priming sugar to carb the dry NA cider.

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How's the going to work? Once you repitch yeast and priming sugar, you know what you're doing?

Making alcohol all over again (along with the CO2)

When you make a soda or cider like this, the only fermentation that you're really doing is priming. There's more sugar in there, but you are only fermenting just enough of it to carbonate. Boiling off that little bit of alcohol (even if you could do it), but then adding BACK sugar, you're just back at square 1 and fermenting all over again.

The only way to have 0%-ABV soda/cider is to force-carb.

What about one of those SodaStream machines? I have friends who use those and love them. Seems like this would be a perfect application for that. That's just force-carbing on a small scale.

Excellent post the bird you are absolutely right, its safe, doesn't alter taste and guarantees 0% alcohol.

I missed your post there Gordond, thanks for the information! I'm appreciating everyone chiming in with ideas and stories, feeling better and better about the whole process and about carbonating in general. This is a learning curve for yours truly, I'm a 4.5oz sugar, 2 cups boiled water, 5 gallons beer type of guy .

Do I have to pasteurize my apple juice after carbing? I was planning on just tossing the 2 bottles into the freezer to chill them down quickly then moving them over to the fridge. I bought Schnucks brand (St. Louis chain grocer) 100% apple juice with vit C added, asorbic acid I believe it's called (I've fermented it out before).

The soda stream looks pretty cool, actually more like a fun toy. Have you used one before Bird? I'll start reading up on it but I'm curious the co2 containers it uses, guessing the small cylinders that are used in air rifles as well. Also curious if it allows you to control the amount of carbonation.

Pricing though has me debating on whether it would be better to shell an extra 100 and try to find a keg setup though at this point, my savings is saving money to save money haha.

I haven't used it personally, but I've got two buddies who swear by it. Pretty sure you can control the carbonation level, basically by the number of shots of CO2 you give it.

Ideal would be traditional kegging setup, but then you're looking at buying kegs, CO2 tanks, regulators... and finding a second fridge to keep everything cold. It's a much bigger investment in terms of money, time, and space.

Looks like it uses buyers choice 2 canisters, one is good for 60L, the other for 130L and that's only like 30 bucks for a refill. Could be carbing up next week for 70 dollars and that would last us for a REALLY long time, the 60L. We're going to a mall this weekend, they sell these things at JCP and Macy's, I think we'll stop in and pick one up, good looking out Bird!

Soda stream only carbonates water last I heard and running cider through it will likely
void ny warranties and damage the gadget. The boiling off method is used for NA
beer and leaves the .5% abv discussed. It would work and my understanding is that
even orange juice has some alcohol (to my surprise) so abstaining from NA beers and
the like do not help much if that is the case.

Making carbonated water and soft drinks is simple! Turn tap water into sparkling water in under 30 seconds, with no clean-up. Enjoy the freshness and convenience of homemade soda and protect the environment at the same time. No heavy bottles to carry, store at home or throw away. Fizz to your taste and add the flavor of your choice to make your favorite drink. Simple to clean and reuse. With a variety of colors and silhouettes, you'll be sure to find a soda maker to match with any decor.

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Yeah, it's a device for carbonation. Water/soda... ****, I'm pretty sure I recall someone force-carbing beer (as an experiment) with one of these. There's zero reason why it wouldn't work for soda (or any other liquid that can absorb CO2).

You could build a carbonator cap as well. I am not sure how much they cost to make, but I am sure it is less than one of the soda streams. You can also use a normal CO2 tank.

http://www.truetex.com/carbonation.htm and http://www.brewboard.com/index.php?showtopic=47610

That's a good thought. Even if you buy one, that's $20 you spend once (it's a ripoff, but it's a one-time cost). Still need the tank and reg, though.

Don't know why I didn't think of the carbonator cap....

I have an idea that would probably work for the nine month time period we are talking about. It might get to expensive for continual use.

The idea stems from the above link in geneb's post. For my idea you would still need to make that carving cap from a valve stem as he described.

For your carb source, you could use regular CO2 cartridges from walmart. Like you might use in a bb gun. This is why it might be too expensive for regular use but good for short run use. They aren't outrageous but aren't cheap either.

To connect it it you could use a bike pump that uses CO2 cartridges. It would connect directly to the valve stem carb cap and seal off nicely.

In theory it would work. But there may be a few problems. One I see is there may be other gases or additives in the cartridges that u wouldn't want to drink especially if u r pregnant. Also I am not sure what the actual pressure is in the small cartridge. It is likely plenty for a 16oz bottle but the article talks about about the regulator reducing the pressure to 50psi and it is likely higher than that. But you may be able to control the pressure with the hand valve that is on some of these type pumps. Lastly, I am not sure how important maintaining a constant flow of pressure is, but that would also prove to be difficult using the hand valve while shaking the bottle as described in the article.

But this may all just be the hard cider talking.

I make a fair amount of soda. Carbonating with yeast is going to produce a modest amount of alcohol but nothing to panic over. Kids can drink it. This is my preferred method for bottled soda but there's a bit of science to it and God knows it took me awhile before I got the process down.

I also have a SodaStream and, as someone has mentioned, it's really intended for water only. All it's doing is forcing carbonation from the cartridge through a nozzle into your bottle (which needs to be threaded on to the unit so you can't use any bottles you like) but there's no way to clean out an gunk from the nozzle should you decide to carbonate anything other than water.

There's a book I can recommend that I've made quite a few recipes from called Homemade Soda. Worth looking into as many of the recipes offer different ways to carbonate:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1603427961/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Outside the box Tim, always a fan of such suggestions.

We talked and discussed everything noted above last night, I think we're just going to stick to yeast; cheap and safe. Talking with some of the ladies at my work, most doctors seem to give a thumbs up to pregnant women being able to have a glass of wine to relax one in a while. If Di (wifey) has 2 Mr. Beer Bottles worth of yeast carbed cider in a week, I don't think there will be enough alcohol to remotely compare with a full glass of wine.

I'm picking up a couple more gallons of apple juice today and we're going to pop open one of the carbed bottles I started on Wednesday night. I added no extra sugar whatsoever therefore I can take a gravity reading of today's bought juice itself before I put it into the Mr. Beer bottles, then take a gravity reading on our carbed bottles.

I added the yeast and capped them off at 8:00pm on the dot Wednesday, today at 8:01am I had Di pull them out of the brew closet and toss them in the freezer. When I asked her how they felt, she said rock hard; hopefully didn't leave them out too long (our house is sitting around 72 degrees).

And so starts data recording to find the perfect amount of time for the perfect amount of carbonation via 1/8 tsp yeast.......

Thanks again everyone for the methods, ideas, and comments, and the well wishes! Doctor's appt today to make sure everything and everyone is healthy Please keep posting suggestions if anything else comes to mind, I'm all ears!

You could get two bottles with carbonator caps attached to each other with tubing, fill one with apple juice and the other with yeast and sugar water.. If the yeast produce enough CO2, it could carbonate the apple juice without getting any alcohol in it. Might add some odd flavors, though.

No idea how well that would work, but it seems like it could. Also not sure what kind of gravity you'd need in the sugar water to produce enough CO2 so that the volume would be high enough throughout the entire system. I may do a little experimenting with it at some point, though.

ETA: Even better, use beer in the other bottle and add enough priming sugar to carb both. You get beer, she gets alcohol free carbed cider.

You "should" really only put water in the sodastream--it "makes" soda by adding flavor shots to the sparkling water. The machine specifically says to not add anything but water.

That said, you can carbonate any liquid, but in my experience it often results in hugely explosive foam bombs, so care must be taken

the_bird said:

Yeah, it's a device for carbonation. Water/soda... ****, I'm pretty sure I recall someone force-carbing beer (as an experiment) with one of these. There's zero reason why it wouldn't work for soda (or any other liquid that can absorb CO2).

Click to expand...

clevernonsense said:

You "should" really only put water in the sodastream--it "makes" soda by adding flavor shots to the sparkling water. The machine specifically says to not add anything but water.

That said, you can carbonate any liquid, but in my experience it often results in hugely explosive foam bombs, so care must be taken

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Worth noting is that the Sodastream branded flavourings are terrible. Besides tasting awful they all use artificial sweeteners, even the non diet ones, and I would put alcohol in my system before I ever put Aspartame or Sucralose in there. Just sayin'

I make a lot of italian sodas with the sodastream through. Make your carbonated water and add a few ounces of a good quality syrup to the bottle, cap it and give it a few twists and you've got a pretty nice fizzy drink. Use a Torani (good) or Monin (better) syrup or make your own simple syrups.

1/8 tsp yeast + 1 Mr. Beer bottle filled with Apple Juice w/ no sugar added + 36hrs at room temp ='s SUPER-Carbed juice!

It was really good though, the misses liked it, we just had to pour it slowly and carefully. I did a couple more bottles at 24hrs, they are in the fridge now. Thanks all for the advice!

BTW, Doctor's appt Friday went very very well, she's at 6 weeks. We go back in 2 to get the first look and hear the heartbeat. Man am I excited.

Congrats on the baby! If you still wish to pursue a drier flavor and you are familiar with
kombucha you could put half an inch to an inch of kombucha in the bottom of the glass
you are pouring in. If kombucha is not your thing, maybe you could make a small batch
of strong hop tea and keep it in the fridge and pour over that instead. Again, congrats!

could probably use dry ice as well



this can be dangerous and id do my homework first...

DodginBUIs said:

could probably use dry ice as well

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-MBJlBHRkE

this can be dangerous and id do my homework first...

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That was very cool!

Earlier it was mentioned that using Montrachet yeast, cooling fridge temps will not stop fermentation. This was SO very true, the bottles I made last weekend I've had to let pressure out of 3 times now, each have developed a fair amount of sediment in them. Until I get some ale yeast, I've learned to prepare Di's cider 28hrs ahead of consumption, 24 room temp, 4 in the fridge.

Kind of cool though I guess I have a couple liters of apfelwein going in the fridge in oppose to the 3 gallons aging in the brew closet, no age to them but meh, apfelwein is divine at anytime!

99, there's your rhyme.. Your turn to draw a card, now finish your beer and eat that tomato ***hole! Love that movie..

Apple juice and 7 up

Buy a can of concentrate apple juice and bottle of seltzer water mix to taste

Beer fest reference. Awesome btw