Closed-system pressurized fermentation technique!

I pieced together this apparatus to use in conjunction with the brewer's hardware kit. I think it's pretty sexy.





Unfortunately, until I can get my kegerator built, I won't be able to use it.

NICE ! I might do the same, but put a QD on the air line. All of my utility connections are like that now.

One thing that I can mention about this setup, make sure it holds the pressure at the start. You can get the oring in just a little off and it will leak past the "tabs".

Nice setup! I concur with Larry about the quick disconnect. That would open this particular configuration to easy connection to your transfer/purging gas. I am going to do this eventually with my setup. Also, with the pressurized fermentation, you could get away with a room temperature fermentation if you could get it to a room of 68*F or so for an ale. I still wouldn't recommend a lager at that temperature, but an ale is totally doable at those temperatures to equate to a normal unpressurized fermentation of 64*F.

I agree, sweet setup.

I was trying to decide on Derin's triclover vs Wort's sankey coupler. I decided to go with the coupler.

I like the idea of a QD for gas in. My plan was to remove my pressure gauge and SV and replace it with a tail piece and CO2 hose when it comes time to transfer to a serving keg. Either way...

Wort, I'm up to 15 psi this morning. Keep her closed at 65 degrees for a week, crash cool to 32-35 degrees for a week, then filter while transferring to a serving keg, then enjoy??? What do you think of that plan?

Sounds like a plan!

I decided not to cut the spear on my sanke for my first shot at pressurized fermentation. The results...

Pretty good, actually regarding sediment. I attempted to draw off the sediment before filling my kegs. Drew off about a quart and then it was running clear. Then I filled the kegs.

I'm crash cooling now and force carbing. I just took a taste and it's pretty darn good. No off flavors.

I let mine sit in the fermenting keg for about three weeks, though since I don't have a way to crash cool. I also slowly released the pressure from 15psi to about 3. Since I wasn't crash cooling and didn't quite have the gear for counterpressure transfer I just pushed the beer into the first corny and opened the lid a bit to see when it was full. For the second corny I purged with co2, then filled thru the dip tube with it closed.

I'm looking to get a lot better at my technique and do counterpressure transfers. But hey, for now the beer seems darn fine! It was pretty simple to rinse out my sanke. Now it's doing a pbw soak and should be ready to go next week if I can get my RIMS tube and control panel built!

Thanks to all who helped. Fermenting in a sanke is awesome.

Fermenting in a Sanke is "The Mutt's Nuts!" Glad it worked out so well for you without the spear cut. That was my whole idea envisioned, to not have to use anything out of the ordinary to do this if you already kegging your beer. Of course you have to build a spunding valve, but... hey, that piece of equipment comes in handy for counter pressure transferring sooooooo. I love to set my brewery up for universal uses for things, as opposed to having tons of equipment.

My latest venture is to chill, pitch, then roll into my house for a 70*F fermentation. Hopefully proving, to my tastes, the ability to have more brewing without the need for using my fermentation freezer, and creating a truly easy house ale system. I'm hoping 70*F under pressure will equal 65*F under normal conditions flavor-wise. I hope to get to do this today, if time permits. Guess we'll see how much krausen I get with 15+ gallons inside my house. I'm hoping not much if any.... Ahhh, experiments are fun aren't they? Great job Dgonza9, great job guys! Keep it coming. People are obviously reading this thread and getting ideas on their own. Contribute, and add to the technique so we can all brew easier!

OK guys, pulling the trigger. All numbers are from BeerSmith. I have 13 gallons of water in my HLT heating to 168*F right now for my 154*F wanted 10 gallon mash rest (.4 gallons/# of grain). I'm mashing and boiling a 12 gallon recipe of higher gravity for a larger 15 gallon end batch after the boil. City water is coming out at 65*F, so perfect to get me below my room temperature for an easy rise to my wanted fermentation temperature of 70*F. After the 2 hour mash (mashed thin, but high), I will sparge with 8 gallons of 185*F water to get me to 15 gallons in my kettle. I know, kinda tight on the kettle space, but I have done it before with no mess. You just have to be careful and ready for the eruption . I'm hitting the 90 minute boil with 2oz (9.1%AA) Amarillo @ 90, 1oz @ 30, and 1oz @ 10 minutes for a IBU of 43.1 (just 3ish points over the high limit of the style). This also gives me a OG of 1.061, FG of 1.016, IBU's as mentioned, ABV of 5.9%, and SRM of 27.1. Of course, after blending, I will have a OG of 1.049, FG of 1.013, IBU of ~37 (probably more like 33-35), ABV of 4.7%, and SRM of ~23.

Recipe is as follows:
10# (40%) Weyermann Munich Type 1
10# (40%) Weyermann Pale Ale Malt
2.5# (10%) Caramel 40*L
1.5# (6%) Chocolate 400*L
1# (4%) Weyermann Wheat

Now, we just wait and see....

Need some advice today for my brew session. My HERMS is on timer and ready to kick on at 5:30am to get up to strike. I'm doing a modified Schwarzbier 12 gallon batch where half the batch will get a decent amount of active PacMan yeast and the other half will get a Bavarian Lager. I'm going to pressure ferment the Bavarian lager and this is my first lager ever.

If anyone can make recommendations on pressure for the fermentation as well as temperatures, I would greatly appreciate it. I know I need to do a Diacetyl rest but not sure when and at what temps.

Appreciate any assistance friends

Flananuts

flananuts said:

Need some advice today for my brew session. My HERMS is on timer and ready to kick on at 5:30am to get up to strike. I'm doing a modified Schwarzbier 12 gallon batch where half the batch will get a decent amount of active PacMan yeast and the other half will get a Bavarian Lager. I'm going to pressure ferment the Bavarian lager and this is my first lager ever.

If anyone can make recommendations on pressure for the fermentation as well as temperatures, I would greatly appreciate it. I know I need to do a Diacetyl rest but not sure when and at what temps.

Appreciate any assistance friends

Flananuts

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I would ferment the Bavarian Lager at the lowest temperature to the middle of its range. As for pressure, I can only recommend if it was me. I like to start my fermentation at 5-7 psi sometimes 10 psi if I have a really full fermenter and am scared of krausen.

It takes a while to show before mentioned pressure (sometimes 2 days sometimes, sometimes right away, sometimes a week???), but trust that it is working. The colder you go the longer it takes in my experience. After you see the pressure, I go ahead and crank it up to my wanted carbonation volumes pressure and let it ride.

When I decide to do my D-rest, I up the pressure accordingly for my wanted volumes and let it ramp up until a couple of days to a week have passed. Then I slowly take the beer down to lagering temperatures at 5*F per day until my temperatures are reached and mature appropriately. After I have set my spunding valve to the highest setting (D-rest temp/psi), I leave it there or go without anything in a sealed up keg. You may want to take samples for gravity or tasting for diacetyl to make sure along the way. Then I take it down to 33*F for a couple of days prior to transfer. Just find a good lager schedule you like and follow it for temperatures. Afterwords, I have beer in a serving keg that is carbonated and ready to serve (if it doesn't require more aging).

WortMonger, thanks for the tips. I just mashed in at 6am and I'm looking forward to this beer when finished. I want to see what this beer tastes like when compared side by side. I'm going to search the thread on when and what temperature I should do the D rest at, but this group of closed pressure fermenters rock! My 5 year old just came down the stairs to the basment and yelled, boy that smells good!

Happy Sunday

LOL, yep. My 7 & 3 yr olds came home with their momma one day when I was just finishing up my mash. They were all about how good it smelled. Then, I started the boil and added hops. They no longer liked the smell! :cross: LOL.

Your D-rest is normally 5-10 degrees higher than your fermentation temperature, and this group does ROCK!!!!:rockin:

Timer set to turn beer machine on at 5am, mashed in 22lbs of grain with a thicker mash than normal, HERM'D away for 75 minutes until iodine test shows total conversion, fly sparged until I had 12gal in the kettle, 60 minute boil on, cleaned out Mash Tun and started Oxyclean in Tun, boil down turn heat exchanger into cool mode, top up to 11 gallons from boil off, split batch into pressure fermenter for Black Lager and Carboy for Black Ale, recirculate oxyclean in heat exchanger, then iodophor solution following, beer machine put away before noon.

Huge thanks again for the off topic answers on lager fermentation and apologies in advance for my little Mastercard moment.

Yep, so I'm sick but decided to brew anyways. I got a semi-stuck sparge, which produced a brilliantly clear wort run-off. However, this started me on the track for collecting and just boiling the next day. So, I started the boil this morning and everything went great. Topped up with pre-boiled water that had cooled to get my temperature down a little faster, and then chilled to 65*F. I pitched the yeast in my lauter grant during my recirculation once I was at temperature, then knocked out to my primary keg. Sealed it up, rolled it into the house, and tapped it with my spunding valve. I am very curious to see how fast this rocket takes off!!!

I have to say, going this slow for the run-off wasn't fun, but man that is the cleanest wort I have ever had. This is going to be a good one.

I just did the calculation on my efficiency and overshot my OG by a full point. Target OG 1.049 - actual OG 1.06. I think this is due to the thicker mash in the HERM. My Mash in volume was 1.125 qt per pound So it was a slower looking recirculation which had me a bit concerned but I rolled with it. I also ramped the recirculation up to 182 and then fly sparged. I think a combination of those gave me an 86% efficiency when I built my grain bill on a 70% efficiency.

Mine took off like a rocket! This morning I was leaving for work and had to set the pressure on my SV to 10 psi. It was showing 16 and I didn't want to release down to 5 psi that fast, since I have a full fermenter. I will set it at 5 after work, then set it for carbonation tomorrow before I leave for work. If I don't hurry and do this I might finish before I have my wanted carbonation. This beer is going to finish fast, I can tell. I might even just leave it at 10 and up it tomorrow. I don't see what lowering it would do since growth has to be done/almost done anyways. God I love how easy this is!

Wow, I came home to the beer above 15 psi, even though the SV was set to 10 psi. There was about an oz of yeast all around the floor around the keg. I put a maxi pad underneath the pressure outlet to catch the slow drip that happens every now and then. LOL, I know, funny!!! This beer smells fantastic fermenting and I am thinking about jacking the pressure up to 30 psi tonight. I have a feeling this beer will be done with primary tomorrow sometime and I don't want to miss out on the free carbonation and time it frees up. I'm not worried about the yeast. They are for sure in high krausen and ready to eat everything they can get their mitts on.

My Scottish 80 made it up to 32 psi @ 65 degrees. I'm crash cooling now for the next week. Beersmith calculates the pressure will be 7.75 at 33 degrees. Does that seem right? Will it drop that much?

So far I'm impressed with the ease of this technique. Next batch I'm doing with foam control to keep my fridge clean. Other than that rock solid!!

cmuench said:

My Scottish 80 made it up to 32 psi @ 65 degrees. I'm crash cooling now for the next week. Beersmith calculates the pressure will be 7.75 at 33 degrees. Does that seem right? Will it drop that much?

So far I'm impressed with the ease of this technique. Next batch I'm doing with foam control to keep my fridge clean. Other than that rock solid!!

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What volumes of CO2 do you want? According to style, you should want between 1.5 volumes to 2.3 volumes of carbonation. This is equivalent to 0.00 psi to 6.79 psi respectively at 33*F, according to BeerSmith. I'm getting different numbers from you on BeerSmith??? I usually have the pressure I want before crash cooling since getting a SV that can handle the higher pressures at higher temperature (old one only went to 20 psi release), then I just un-tap and let her chill for a week before re-tapping prior to transfer. I have never had BeerSmith say zero before, and your 7.75 is higher than the 2.3 volumes at 33*F on my software so I am very confused which one of us is right. Are you shooting for 2.3 volumes or higher?

Yay, my ferment seems to be done releasing pressure. Of course I won't really know without a sample, but I trust by this Sunday I can assume full attenuation. I will leave it set at 30 psi and 70-72*F and un-tap it Monday morning. Then I will roll the keg every day for another week, take a taste sample, then roll it to the garage where it is a cool 60ish*F for another week before transferring it to my serving kegs. This might actually be drinkable by Thanksgiving day!!!!! I have had luck before with a 3 week grain-to-glass, maybe I will get lucky again. This was one ferocious ferment for sure! If the beer taste as good as it smells, I am sold on dry yeast.

Wort,

You're right, I had the vol set wrong. 6.79 psi for 2.3 vol at 33 degrees. I should have bled it down to 23 psi at 65 degrees before I cooled.

I can't believe how long its taking to get to 33 degrees from 65. That's a lot of beer, I guess!!

OK, good. I was worried about the difference in numbers. I feel better now. Just set your valve to release once you get down to temperature at this point. Remember, it will take longer to de-gas cool versus warmer. That shouldn't be a problem, as you can always just take a little more time if needed to get it where you want it. Can't wait till you taste it.

Can't wait to start shaking my keg tomorrow!!! I really wished I had started my stir-bar experiment for this batch to keep the yeast suspended for clean-up. This beer is getting me excited, as it smells wonderful when I was releasing the pressure. I plan on washing the us-05 for reuse later. I bet I do another lager after this batch though, but I haven't even pulled the one I have out of the lagering freezer yet. I have a ton of Munich, maybe I will try something along those lines with this yeast again. I kinda like having to dream up something interesting to do every now and then, lol.

I picked up another keg today. I was looking for a second fermenter to really boost my pipeline.

When I got there I found out it was rubber coated. Decided to take it. Any major issues with using it as a fermenter I don't have a fermentation freezer.

Shouldn't have any problem with that.
I've done the same. I plan on doing a primary of about 4 days in the temp controlled fermenter, then be able to pull in out and finish up at room temp, freeing up the temp chamber for another round.

Nope, no problem what-so-ever. They take a little longer to get down to temperature, but also take a little longer to get warm again. I prefer to use the SS ones for this reason. I like to use my black miller keg for serving. As a matter of fact, I try to use my worse keg for fermentation, and my best for serving. It won't matter though what kind of keg you use.

I am curious though why you are wanting to secondary? I get great clarity and better yeast byproduct cleanup from an extended primary. I actually plan on leaving this ale I am doing now on the yeast for 3 weeks (maybe 4) before transferring to my serving keg. The lager I have in my fermentation freezer has been in primary since September 25th. I am only asking because I wonder your thoughts on the need for secondary.

LooyvilleLarry said:

Shouldn't have any problem with that.
I've done the same. I plan on doing a primary of about 4 days in the temp controlled fermenter, then be able to pull in out and finish up at room temp, freeing up the temp chamber for another round.

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I think that would work great! Lagers are the only thing giving my pipeline a problem, but if this last ale works out tasty with no flaws... that may end soon.

LooyvilleLarry said:

Shouldn't have any problem with that.
I've done the same. I plan on doing a primary of about 4 days in the temp controlled fermenter, then be able to pull in out and finish up at room temp, freeing up the temp chamber for another round.

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Wort, it's not for a secondary. I'm looking to be able to brew more and so I want two primarys!

I'm considering a porter next, followed almost immediately by a simcoe IPA. I usually wind up drinking a fair amount of any 10 gallon batch by the time the next one is ready to go. So I'm looking to have more variety around. With two fermenters I can bring 20 gallons to tap at a time and I should be able to keep quite a variety of beer around, especially for holidays.

Gotta get my RIMS tube and control panel up and running this weekend. Hard to find the time. I have to drill another few holes and I usually don't get time until the kids are asleep. Bit of an issue with the noise right now.

I'm losing it! I could have sworn I read you wanted a secondary, lol. Guess I need to read better, huh? Glad you are making the move to more beer in the pipeline! Will you be doing room temperature ferments, or do you have the controlled temperature space? Man I wish I did, but this RT thing with pressure might just work out. I just released some more over-pressure from the primary and smelled it while doing so... very nice aroma indeed. God I hope it isn't tainted with something, lol, cause that would just suck a big one.

I don't have a temp controlled fermenting freezer. So I'm wondering if temps will rise too much in a rubber coated keg once the yeast get going.

I don't think they would rise too much. You should be fine using it as a fermentor, I was just saying I like to use mine as a serving keg and the older, dented up, kegs as my fermentors. Heck, I may just change my mind if this in-house RT ferment has what I require it to have. The SS kegs have so many nooks and crannies, that it makes them really hard to clean when yeast comes out of my fermentation hardware. I might just have to swap my fermentor to the black one after all.

Ok, I think the beer is ready to be cooled off in the garage prior to transfer right before I head off for Thanksgiving. Guess I'm filling a Party Pig so the whole family can grab a taste. I am so pumped!!! I let some gas out and smelled again, yummmmmy.

Update- I split a 10 gallon American Black Lager recipe based off a schwarzbier recipe and did 5 gallons on the Pacman yeast and the other 5 under pressure with wyeast bavarian lager. Both are now at 33 degrees in the ferm cabinet. Lager is at 14lb psi and ale is still. I'll krausen the ale and naturally carb in keg, however the lager is sitting pretty under pressure. Question for you WortMonger, how long do you lager under pressure usually?

I lager the same as if it weren't under pressure. I try to give at least a full week of lagering for every 10 points of original gravity. Krausening an ale sounds great! Recipe sounds great to do this experiment with. I know the P-ferment will come out fine, but I think I am more excited hearing about the ale version. I have to get my hands on some PacMan. The US-05 I used is supposed to be close, and man the beer smells great after a vigorous fermentation. I just went to roll it out to the garage and there was a little more pressure built up. So, I guess I have to leave the SV on a little longer to release that. I will be grabbing a Pig of it to take for Thanksgiving dinner though, . Keep us updated on your brews. I hope you do get a chance to try them side by side when they are both ready for drinking.

I'm debating using gelatin for the first time, but I don't want to add it and loose my pressure. Maybe I can figure out a way to get it in there while sealed, and then purge and pressure up for the transfer.

Guys, I'm looking for a new way to pitch yeast to my sanke for fermenting under pressure. For my first batch I ran the hot wort thru my CFC where I hit it with some inline O2. Once it was all transferred I took the spund valve and spear off and pitched my yeast, then reassembled.

Today I am trying recirculating to my BK until it reaches 70F, then pitching into BK, then pumpinf to Sanke.

Neither method is great for me. My CFC has hot wort coming out at 63 degrees. Takes about 20 minutes for a 10 gallon batch. But then I have to remove the spear, etc. Recirculating is taking a really long time. It's not there yet and it's been 40 minutes.

Does anyone have a third option? Can you pitch the yeast into the sanke first, then transfer wort over? I do usually have the spear out when I dump the last bit of starsan out of it. If not, I think I'm going back to removing the spear after CFC transfer. too much wasted water and time for me. Problem is my BK holds too much heat.

Thanks for the ideas.

Yeah, pitching into BK didn't work out well for me. It was a long and frustrating brew day for me. Murphy's law in full effect. LOL. My OG is off by a full point, but oh well.

My question is about pitching into the BK. I didn't rehydrate the yeast first. Last time I used dry it was Nottingham and that package came with rehydration instructions. the Safale US-05 said to just sprinkle into wort. So I sprinkled into the BK and watched it clump up everywhere.

Basically, I'm wondering if the yeast even made it over to the fermenter when I pumped it out. I had a ton of cold break and use a bazooka style tube to keep my BK valve from clogging.

Cheers.

Finally finished up my spunding valve with all it's bells and whistles

Already did one brew using it... in the serving keg in 8 days.... tastes great.

Anyways.. here's the shot of it

and


The quick disconnect is so I can throw on either the 0-30psi valve or the 0-60psi valve. The check valve is so I can use it for other things such as force carbing or pushing liquid into kegs from either my brewstand or another keg.

Dgonza9 said:

Yeah, pitching into BK didn't work out well for me. It was a long and frustrating brew day for me. Murphy's law in full effect. LOL. My OG is off by a full point, but oh well.

My question is about pitching into the BK. I didn't rehydrate the yeast first. Last time I used dry it was Nottingham and that package came with rehydration instructions. the Safale US-05 said to just sprinkle into wort. So I sprinkled into the BK and watched it clump up everywhere.

Basically, I'm wondering if the yeast even made it over to the fermenter when I pumped it out. I had a ton of cold break and use a bazooka style tube to keep my BK valve from clogging.

Cheers.

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Fermentation seems normal.

There's a LOT of yeast cells in the dry packets. I never really rehydrate it and it's not been a problem. If you whirlpool the yeast in and let your cold break settle, you should be good to transfer. A bazooka shouldn't stop the yeast as long as it's properly dissolved.

Question for you pressure fermenter-heads: Does fermenting under pressure prevent blow-outs? I have a gaggle of kegs and have been using blow-off tubes fermenting and have not had more than a mild blow-off issue with 13.5 gal batches. Does the pressure prevent the build-up of the krausen?