Barley wine: Bulk aging vs aging in the bottle

I'm brewing my first barley wine this weekend - I'll be dry hopping as well as adding some oak chips to the secondary. I plan on leaving it on the oak for around 4 weeks and the dry hop for the last two weeks of that time prior to bottling.

I have a couple of options, I'm not sure what's best or recommended:

1) Add the oak chips at the start of secondary fermentation, two weeks later add the dry hop, and two weeks later bottle and age in the bottle for several months.

2) Add the oak chips at the start of secondary fermentation, two weeks later add the dry hop, and then rack to a tertiary carboy to bulk age for several months.

3) Let it mature in the secondary for several months, then add the oak chips, two weeks later add the dry hop, and two weeks later bottle.


Any thoughts on what the best method is? I'm leaning towards option #1 simply because it would free up a carboy for other brews... but I'm not so sure that's what's best for the beer (though I don't know it would "hurt" it either).

Thanks for the help.

Anyone have any thoughts/opinions?

I think option 2 and 3 will yield similar results. However, option 3 is appealing since you get the bulk aging benefits, with one less transfer. I tend to try to avoid transferring beer since you risk contamination and oxidation at each step.

This summer, I brewed a big old ale and the recipe called for the addition of dried fruit in the secondary for a few weeks and then rack to tertiary for bulk aging. Instead, I waited for primary fermentation to slow down, added the fruit to primary and let it sit the recommended amount time. Then transferred to secondary for bulk aging. The beer is turning out amazing and I did one less transfer than recommended. Hope my experiences will help.

Oh, and another reason to do option #3 is that you'll have more of that great "raw hops" flavor since you'll be bottling right after dry hopping. Yeah, I'd definitely do option #3.

+1 for option 1 or 3. You are into extended aging and oxygen is not your friend. Aging in secondary vs bottle would probably yield flavor differences. But it's hard to predict what kind.

yeoldebrewer said:

Aging in secondary vs bottle would probably yield flavor differences. But it's hard to predict what kind.

Click to expand...

Meeeeeh I dunno if that would make that big of a difference in flavor. Bulk aging would just allow it to age faster, IIRC.

+1 to #3

From a fellow who just got judging sheets back from an Old Ale submitted to a BJCP-sanctioned competition, I'd actually suggest doing #2, so that you can get the perceived benefits of oxidation, which fit within the guidelines.

Personally I'd go with number 3 but only because I bulk age my big beers in secondary for months and then bottle. I just cracked open my first bottle of barleywine that I brewed in February. One month primary, six months secondary and I dry hopped the last 10-14 days of secondary.

Edit: Another good reason for bulk aging is because I wasn't sure if I could trust myself from not sampling from time to time. If its in a carboy in a crawl space then its out of sight and out of mind.

How about a 4th? Oak right away then bulk age. Then two weeks before bottleing add the hops. That way the oak had time to age and the hops are nice and fresh.

khiddy said:

From a fellow who just got judging sheets back from an Old Ale submitted to a BJCP-sanctioned competition, I'd actually suggest doing #2, so that you can get the perceived benefits of oxidation, which fit within the guidelines.

Click to expand...

I agree that for an Old Ale, oxidation is an important feature, but you usually get it from extended bottle conditioning. For an Old Ale, you take it to a friend that doesn't drink, tell him to hide it and then forget about it for 2 years. At the end, when you eventually remember about the beer, you'll have an amazing product. But in this thread, we're talking about a barleywine which shouldn't reveal oxidation. I vote for the minimal amount of tampering. Beers like that need to be left alone.

Actually, for an English barleywine (style 19B), oxidation is mentioned in the guidelines:

Flavor: Strong, intense, complex, multi-layered malt flavors ranging from bready and biscuity through nutty, deep toast, dark caramel, toffee, and/or molasses. Moderate to high malty sweetness on the palate, although the finish may be moderately sweet to moderately dry (depending on aging). Some oxidative or vinous flavors may be present, and often complex alcohol flavors should be evident. Alcohol flavors shouldn’t be harsh, hot or solventy. Moderate to fairly high fruitiness, often with a dried-fruit character. Hop bitterness may range from just enough for balance to a firm presence; balance therefore ranges from malty to somewhat bitter. Low to moderately high hop flavor (usually UK varieties). Low to no diacetyl.

Click to expand...

Well I stand corrected about the notes a barleywine should have. However, I don't advise against accelerated oxidation by bringing the beer into contact with air during fermentation. The oxidation notes should be slight as you would get from a prolonged aging. As I said earlier, beers like these need to be left alone. Bottle it, hide it and forget about it.

barrog said:

How about a 4th? Oak right away then bulk age. Then two weeks before bottleing add the hops. That way the oak had time to age and the hops are nice and fresh.

Click to expand...

I am with this idea as well. I would go with primary, secondary with the oak until it tastes right and then bulk age in secondary, then just before you are ready to bottle dry hop for a week or two. The oak will be way overpowering at first and I wouldn't really advise on waiting on the oaking. If you oak right off the bat then it will have time to smooth out.

Make the oak able to come out by drilling holes in cubes/sticks and attaching fishing line to it. Make the oak able to just be pulled out at any time in order to now have to rack off the chips/cubes/sticks.

Matt Up North said:

Make the oak able to come out by drilling holes in cubes/sticks and attaching fishing line to it. Make the oak able to just be pulled out at any time in order to now have to rack off the chips/cubes/sticks.

Click to expand...

What a great idea! Plus, by drilling holes, you've increased the surface area, leading to further flavor development in the beer... genius!

I got tired of having to strain and oxidate my beer, so I did that. Just tie the first one to the end and then string them right on top and tie the last one, then attach it to something outside the fermenter (carboy neck, handle, strap, bookshelf) and you can taste it and when there is enough just fish it out...get it, fish it out

PS...if you don't have fishing line, don't use mint or cinnamon dental floss. It isn't the same idea, trust me

Very informative thread!

barrog said:

How about a 4th? Oak right away then bulk age. Then two weeks before bottleing add the hops. That way the oak had time to age and the hops are nice and fresh.

Click to expand...

"Option 4" seems like this might impart too much oakiness... I'm just looking for a hint of oak character, that's why I was only thinking about a month with the oak.

I've got some time to decide the best option since I'm just brewing this today. I'm leaning towards option 3 - with a few taste-tests during the oak aging period to see how the flavor is progressing. If the oak flavor isn't coming through, I'll just wait a while longer before dry hopping. I'll do the dry hop with 10-14 days left before bottling.

One thing we do know: no matter what, I will end up with beer when it's all said and done!

He means to oak right off the bat for two weeks to a month and then remove the oak. Then bulk age it to allow the oak to mellow and not be harsh. Otherwise you might as well oak it and dry hop it and bottle it to age.

Matt Up North said:

He means to oak right off the bat for two weeks to a month and then remove the oak. Then bulk age it to allow the oak to mellow and not be harsh. Otherwise you might as well oak it and dry hop it and bottle it to age.

Click to expand...

Yup, this is what I ment. Guess I should have been more clear.
Also I love your Idea on drilling holes in the oak and stringing them together