Tips for cleaning a plate chiller

I just bought a used plate chiller. It didn't come with directions. I ran cold water through it to test it out, and now I can't figure out how to empty it completely. No matter what I do I can still hear water sloshing around in there.

I have an air compressor and I have even tried blasting the water out.

I've see a backflow hose on a website, how does that work? If you use a plate chiller, how do you get all the water out of it?

please take this info with a grain of salt. I don't own a plate chiller but looking at getting one from dudadiesel.com

I have read that backflushing(back flow) is running sanitizer/ boiling water in thru the "out" side of the chiller to potentially dislodge any trapped particles.

Hope this helps

J

I have the same problem with mine. I haven't even touched it in 6 months, but picked it up and shook it just now, and some water droplets came out.

I'm not going to worry about it, and I wouldn't risk an air compressor. I have seen the amount of oil that comes out of some, and don't want that near my beer.

I don't get all the water out. Why would you?

I have a therminator plate chiller. I pump boiling wort through it for the last 15 minutes of the boil. Sanitized.

When I'm done brewing, do a quick hose-out of my boil kettle, then refill it with water and a couple of scoops of oxyclean. I reverse the wort connections to the chiller (quick disconnects) so that the water is flowing in the reverse direction and let my pump push that through for a few hours. Then I let it sit overnight.

Next day, I just drain the best I can by tilting and dumping a bit. I don't try too hard. So far, NO problem.

I'm getting a chiller. You let your pump run for a few hours!? I can't spend hours. Surely it doesn't take that long to get it clean. If it does then i think i will just stick to the immersion

oldschool said:

I'm getting a chiller. You let your pump run for a few hours!? I can't spend hours. Surely it doesn't take that long to get it clean. If it does then i think i will just stick to the immersion

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It's an electric pump. I turn it on and go do something else for a while.

Probably a few minutes would suffice. But it's no harder for me to let it run for a while, so that's what I do. The idea is just to back-flush the chiller to push out any hop residue or other coagulated proteins that might have lodged in the chiller's convoluted pathways.

I have never backflushed mine with any cleaner. I just run some water through it after use. Every other brew or so place it in the oven on self clean. Anything organic turns to ash and is easily rinsed out.

I run PBW clone through mine after chilling (I have it to clean my other equipment anyway), and then backflush with a garden hose to rinse. Good to go. A little bit of water is left in the chiller but it isn't an issue as long as you recirc boiling hot wort for a few minutes to sanitize the chiller and your lines. The key is to make sure it is clean before storage since a dirty chiller is certainly going to be more difficult to heat sanitize.

I have the 40 plate chiller from kegcowboy and for the life of me can’t get it clean!! I run 160-180 degree water with PBW for 30 minutes normal flow direction, 30 minutes back flush, then rinse with 20 gallons of same temp water then flush with garden hose pressure for 10-15 minutes, then drain and store. Come back a week later and still get chunks and floaties coming out of the chiller. Anyone have a better way to clean a plate chiller???

You need to keep the chunks/floaties out from the start by filtering the flow with screens, bags or whatever method works best. Once in they are hard to displace - try either baking it in oven as hot as you can, cleaning cycle if you have it turns everything to ash. Or you can use caustics (lye) being careful. Once you finally get it cleaned --- filter!!!!

Thanks for the info, I’ll try baking it!! The chunks and floaties look like dried wort flakes, so it appears that the flushing isn’t working even though I’m flushing for hours.

i also put mine in the oven as soon as i dough in, when its done i put on an oven mit grab it and run some water through it in both directions, once its cooled i put it right into my starsan bucket until its time to chill

I've always used an all SS CFC but just picked up a 40 plate chiller (to get higher flow rates). If I flush will PBW after each brew, will this prevent buildup? With the CFC, I'd recirc hot PBW immediately after the brew and then run StarSan through it. I'd drain out all I could but not worry if some was left in it. Then the night before a brew I'd run and hold StarSan through it and drain at the end of the boil.

My concern is how long I could leave StarSan in a brazed plate chiller. I'm concerned the acid could do some harm with the 2 dissimilar metals. Any thoughts on how my cleaning and sanitizing may need to change?

samc said:

You need to keep the chunks/floaties out from the start by filtering the flow with screens, bags or whatever method works best. Once in they are hard to displace - try either baking it in oven as hot as you can, cleaning cycle if you have it turns everything to ash. Or you can use caustics (lye) being careful. Once you finally get it cleaned --- filter!!!!

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This is the best advice, IMO. I'll get clogs in my pre-filter before I dare clog my plate chiller. My last piece of filter is a 20x20 mesh screen gasket right after the kettle valve, so serviceable should it get clogged. I get zero particles into my plate chiller. Now I backflush for 20 mins, then I take it off the mount and shake it out good.

First time I used it I clogged it and had the same very difficult time cleaning it to the point I wasn't getting chunckies out the other end. I ended up baking it @ 350 for about an hour. It had a definite smell in one channel after that, but I don't think it affected the brews much. Now after a dozen or so brews, the smell is gone.

2 more things I do to help keep my duda 30 plate clean are:

1) I swap which one is the wort channel and which one is the water channel every brew. I'm backflushing the last wort channel every time.

2) I have a clothes steamer that I use as a steam sanitizer. I took the long wand off of it and put a quick connect on it. I just hook up my plate and let her run. I got a lot of those gunkies out of there when that first clogging took place.

Good luck.

Oh, FYI - it's normal to not be able to shake out all the water. It doesn't mean you have a clog. Just get the particles out and you'll be fine. I recommend anyone who mounts their chiller like I do be able to unmount it easily, cause I have to shake her out every time. I even do a CO2 pressure blow, but still need to shake her out.

Can you post a picture of how you mounted your chiller? I'm trying to figure out a good way to do my dudadiesel.

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I originally mounted mine with a U Bolt from the Hardware store and some wing nuts for quick removal. I found it best to just lay it on the ground without mounting - saves time and leaves no excuse not to take it to the sink for flushing and cleaning.

btw - for those that don't understand why back flushing doesn't always work, just look at the design and how the channels are set up. Often all you do with flushing is push the debris further into the channel and impact them at the corners/edges.

I was planning on back flushing with hot PBW each brew to prevent any buildup. The whole baking thing sounds like a good annual step but since I have valves and a thermometer on mine, I know I won't take the time to do it every brew.

Also, I like the steam idea and since my wife is a clean freak, I know we could buy one. I just don't know if it could reach all the crevices to really sanitize it. Might incorporate it as a belt and suspenders procedure though.

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Here's the aluminum plate bolted to my brewmation's frame. It has countersunk holes for the mounting studs to slip into. I put thumb screws on the other side and can put it on from the front. When the chiller is mounted in between the hard plumbed water in and discharge out, the drippy parts extend past the lip of the HLT (plumb with the other cam-locks) so any drips go inside the tun. I use loc-line for all plumbing that isn't my silicone hose from the wort pump. I do a recirculating plate chill with a hop basket in the tun. When finished I repatch the loc-line to backflush - easy. I discharge into the HLT to monitor any bits coming out of the plate, and with my filtering now I see zero bits. Also, my plate never smells the next time. I think I'm all good. If I ever smell anything, I'll go thru a steam sanitize cycle, like I mentioned.

I don't even have to put teflon tape on for the cam-locks, since I'm gonna get drips from the loc-line anyways. That way I can bake the plate w/o fuss if needed, not that I do now. It's kind of a patchbay sort of setup.

Hope you like the curtains!

I do the normal flush, back flush (using full flow from house water supply) until water runs clear. About 3 or 4 minutes total. Several direction reversals.

Then I hook up my HVLP (high volume, low pressure) paint sprayer turbine. It's oil less, warm air supplied at about 5 psi and 100 cfm. Dries it out in about 5 minutes, like bone dry, works great. I do both channels.

Circulate sanitizer prior to use.

Tools

I have a 40 plate chiller. After brews I circulate PBW, then blast with a frequently used air compressor. Did a 30 second test on paper and no oil was visible from the compressor, so I'm not worried about it.
Sanitizing by passing boiling wort through is the easiest way imo (assuming you have a pump).

Forgot to mention just above. I use a bazooka on my BK output port and haven't had any probs with plate chiller clogging.

It's a huge time saver over my previous 50 foot copper immersion chiller.

I use a hop catcher in my boil so I don't get a lot of "gunk" in it. I sanitize with hot wort and run PBW after to clean it out. To get water out I use gravity. I swing it like I'm on a "chain gang" over head between legs for about 2-3 min then flip it and do the same. A ton of water flies out each direction and I get wet like I'm in the opening scene of Flashdance (circa 83), but its cool because I'm brewing right? The next day I leave it in the sun to finish drying out and I've never had a issue. Enjoy the benefits of a plate chiller!

OleGoatBrewing said:

I use a hop catcher in my boil so I don't get a lot of "gunk" in it. I sanitize with hot wort and run PBW after to clean it out. To get water out I use gravity. I swing it like I'm on a "chain gang" over head between legs for about 2-3 min then flip it and do the same. A ton of water flies out each direction and I get wet like I'm in the opening scene of Flashdance (circa 83), but its cool because I'm brewing right? The next day I leave it in the sun to finish drying out and I've never had a issue. Enjoy the benefits of a plate chiller!

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Looks like my old hop spider....invaluable....

Sorry to revive such an old thread, but for those who would like to get all the water out of their plate chiller after cleaning it, have you ever considered dumping some rubbing alcohol into it? That would mix with the water and lower the vapor pressure so it would just evaporate.

TexasWine said:

Sorry to revive such an old thread, but for those who would like to get all the water out of their plate chiller after cleaning it, have you ever considered dumping some rubbing alcohol into it? That would mix with the water and lower the vapor pressure so it would just evaporate.

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Wouldn't the alcohol dissolve and leave the water? My intuition tells me it wouldn't make a diff. I accept that there's only a slight overlap between my intuition and actual science.

If you rinsed it out with alcohol, displacing the water, then the idea has merit, though it would still be easier to blow it out.

I just put dust caps on the ends of mine. I don't worry about the trapped water.

passedpawn said:

Wouldn't the alcohol dissolve and leave the water? My intuition tells me it wouldn't make a diff. I accept that there's only a slight overlap between my intuition and actual science.

If you rinsed it out with alcohol, displacing the water, then the idea has merit, though it would still be easier to blow it out.

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Rubbing alcohol, either isopropyl or ethyl, are both completely miscible with water. Therefore the alcohol can't displace the water. They simply mix together. And by completely miscible, I mean there is no saturation limit in either direction of the mixing. You could have 99.99% isopropyl alcohol, and the rest water, or the other way around.

The resulting mixture will of course have a vapor pressure higher than that of pure water and lower than the alcohol. You just need to add enough alcohol so that the mixture evaporates, preferably at ambient conditions.

As a kid we used this principle all the time to prevent swimmer's ear. When we got out of the pool we'd pour rubbing alcohol in each other's ears. Water would be gone in no time.

TexasWine said:

As a kid we used this principle all the time to prevent swimmer's ear. When we got out of the pool we'd pour rubbing alcohol in each other's ears. Water would be gone in no time.

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Guess how I get rid of excess water in my mouth...

TexasWine said:

Rubbing alcohol, either isopropyl or ethyl, are both completely miscible with water. Therefore the alcohol can't displace the water. They simply mix together. And by completely miscible, I mean there is no saturation limit in either direction of the mixing. You could have 99.99% isopropyl alcohol, and the rest water, or the other way around.

The resulting mixture will of course have a vapor pressure higher than that of pure water and lower than the alcohol. You just need to add enough alcohol so that the mixture evaporates, preferably at ambient conditions.

As a kid we used this principle all the time to prevent swimmer's ear. When we got out of the pool we'd pour rubbing alcohol in each other's ears. Water would be gone in no time.

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If the alcohol and water fractions of the resulting mixture evaporated at exactly the same rate, how does distilling work? I would have thought that the alcohol, having the higher partial pressure, would evaporate much faster, thus leaving water in the chiller.

passedpawn said:

If the alcohol and water fractions of the resulting mixture evaporated at exactly the same rate, how does distilling work? I would have thought that the alcohol, having the higher partial pressure, would evaporate much faster, thus leaving water in the chiller.

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The alcohol evaporates faster, up to a point. You can never distill the alcohol to 100% because at some point, it forms an azeotrope with the water, and the azeotrope evaporates at a lower temperature/pressure than either of its two constituents alone. So you are left with nothing in the source vessel, and the water would get carried to the destination vessel as part of the azeotrope. I'm not a chemist but this is my understanding of it.

douglasbarbin said:

The alcohol evaporates faster, up to a point. You can never distill the alcohol to 100% because at some point, it forms an azeotrope with the water, and the azeotrope evaporates at a lower temperature/pressure than either of its two constituents alone. So you are left with nothing in the source vessel, and the water would get carried to the destination vessel as part of the azeotrope. I'm not a chemist but this is my understanding of it.

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I've got 70% IPA, 91% IPA, and water. One sure way to settle this thing...

samc said:

You need to keep the chunks/floaties out from the start by filtering the flow with screens, bags or whatever method works best. Once in they are hard to displace - try either baking it in oven as hot as you can, cleaning cycle if you have it turns everything to ash. Or you can use caustics (lye) being careful. Once you finally get it cleaned --- filter!!!!

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This..I plugged my duda plate chiller up the first time I used it with hops. I had to bake it half the day at 425 to finally get it to stop spitting out hops and hop water and get the material to turn into ash form. I then backwashed it with hot Oxyclean for about an hour, backwashed it with hot water for another hour, then backwashed it with Star San for 30 mins.
I use a SS Hop Spider now to keep as much junk out of it as I can and backwash it after every use with hot star san water....That clean-out S U C K E D.

For those who aren't afraid to mess with it, lye will clean it out pretty well.

douglasbarbin said:

For those who aren't afraid to mess with it, lye will clean it out pretty well.

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I mixed up a pretty strong lye solution - it did clean it out well. However, I won't do it again. Lye (sodium hydroxide) dissolves copper, which is what the brazes inside the plate chillers are formed from. If people here want to do it, you might want to also do a pressure test on one side of the chiller to make sure you haven't created a hole between the two sides. That would cause issues for a LONG time until it was discovered.

BTW, the stainless steel in the chiller is unaffected by strong bases like lye.

On phone app right now, but the short is there's a difference between ambient evaporation and distillation with reflux.

TexasWine said:

On phone app right now, but the short is there's a difference between ambient evaporation and distillation with reflux.

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Likely. I'd love to hear an explanation.

BTW, the evaporation experiment is going VERY slowly. I'm logging weights of the 3 mixtures, will graph tomorrow and upload for laughs.

passedpawn said:

Likely. I'd love to hear an explanation.

BTW, the evaporation experiment is going VERY slowly. I'm logging weights of the 3 mixtures, will graph tomorrow and upload for laughs.

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For those of you looking at this thread for tips on cleaning your plate chiller, skip this post.

OK. Let's see if I can jog my memory, back to the dark ages of ChE 101, and come up with a reasonable explanation. Please forgive me if I make some of this too simplistic. I'm not sure what your background is....

When you mix alcohol and water they behave as a single new component. This mixture will have a single boiling point, a single vapor pressure, a single viscosity. Physical properties will only have one value, which is usually some summation of the properties on the individual components. The vapor pressure is what determines how quickly the mixture will evaporate.

Because of the polarity of the mixture, water and alcohol like to stick together. When this mixture is allowed to evaporate, it will do so as a single new component, without either one being preferentially left behind.

Now let's consider a trayed distillation column, like you'd find in a refinery. If you take a single tray from that column and examine it in isolation, and then just look at the liquid phase on that specific tray, you will see evaporation happening. The big difference is that distillation involves contact between countercurrently flowing liquid and vapor phases. The liquid is falling down the column, vapor is flowing up.

Distillation uses evaporation to accomplish separation of components, but often times it takes many theoretical equilibrium stages (areas in the distillation process where the vapor and liquid have the same composition) to accomplish this. You can think of distillation as multiple stages of evaporation and condensation. But, as you go up or down the distillation column, the concentration of the components will vary. Heavier components will be more prevalent in the bottom of the column, and consequently the column will be hotter and usually have a reboiler. This is the stripping section. Lighter components will be at the top and a condenser will be used to send reflux back to the column. This is the rectifying section.

I hope this helps explain my theory of using rubbing alcohol in these plate chillers. The one caveat that might keep this idea from working is if the internal passages are so small as to prevent good mixing of the water and alcohol. If they don't mix well then all bets are off.

I have a friend that is a blichmann kinda guy, he has all blichmann stuff and can afford it, anyway, he has the blichmann plate chiller, because its blichmann. it worked great on this first brew, but after that his beers came out a bit sour. someone else had asked him about cleaning. his response was to flush and backflush it. thus the problem. someone else had recommended that he boil it and it worked, although he still gets sanitized floaties.

So after hearing this, I have decided that it was just and extra step that was not necessary and not worth the money. I am currently using a 50ft DIY ic and it cools it down at a rate of about 15 or 20 degrees a minute. In other words it goes from a full boil to pitching temperature in less then ten minutes.

Cleaning is simple, just rinse and air dry. sanitizing is done by placing it in the boil for about 10 minutes. after all the hype made by plate chillers, I prefer my method.

So after that, my question is how do they clean and sanitize plate chillers on an industrial scale? Lyme, or caustic seems too radical, and you cant put those things in a oven. just curious.

johns said:

I have a friend that is a blichmann kinda guy, he has all blichmann stuff and can afford it, anyway, he has the blichmann plate chiller, because its blichmann. it worked great on this first brew, but after that his beers came out a bit sour. someone else had asked him about cleaning. his response was to flush and backflush it. thus the problem. someone else had recommended that he boil it and it worked, although he still gets sanitized floaties.

So after hearing this, I have decided that it was just and extra step that was not necessary and not worth the money. I am currently using a 50ft DIY ic and it cools it down at a rate of about 15 or 20 degrees a minute. In other words it goes from a full boil to pitching temperature in less then ten minutes.

Cleaning is simple, just rinse and air dry. sanitizing is done by placing it in the boil for about 10 minutes. after all the hype made by plate chillers, I prefer my method.

So after that, my question is how do they clean and sanitize plate chillers on an industrial scale? Lyme, or caustic seems too radical, and you cant put those things in a oven. just curious.

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I had a plate chiller and ended up selling it and going back to a nice immersion chiller after I also had some issues with infection from the plate chiller. I often do a whirlpool at flameout, so it made sense for me to revert to an immersion chiller, even if it is slower than the plate chiller was.

Anyways, to answer your question, I believe that most of the commercial plate chillers are built in a manner where they can be easily taken apart for cleaning.

johns said:

I have a friend that is a blichmann kinda guy, he has all blichmann stuff and can afford it, anyway, he has the blichmann plate chiller, because its blichmann. it worked great on this first brew, but after that his beers came out a bit sour. someone else had asked him about cleaning. his response was to flush and backflush it. thus the problem. someone else had recommended that he boil it and it worked, although he still gets sanitized floaties.

So after hearing this, I have decided that it was just and extra step that was not necessary and not worth the money. I am currently using a 50ft DIY ic and it cools it down at a rate of about 15 or 20 degrees a minute. In other words it goes from a full boil to pitching temperature in less then ten minutes.

Cleaning is simple, just rinse and air dry. sanitizing is done by placing it in the boil for about 10 minutes. after all the hype made by plate chillers, I prefer my method.

So after that, my question is how do they clean and sanitize plate chillers on an industrial scale? Lyme, or caustic seems too radical, and you cant put those things in a oven. just curious.

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I thought most people run their boiling wort through them for 15m before chilling. That does the sanitization for me.

How come a company like Duda diesel hasn't come out with a heat exchanger that can be taken apart? I know they make the larger ones that separate, but why not the smaller model ones. Seems like it would be a desirable product.