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ghpeel said:
When I went to pitch yeast, the tank didn't look all sucked in like it normally does. It didn't look bulged out or anything, but it definitely wasn't slightly collapsed like it normally is. The wort smells fairly sour too :(
...

So let this be a warning at best, and a lesson at worst (if the beer is ruined). Its OK to let your wort cool to 200F or so before pouring in, but don't risk it getting much cooler.
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Are you sure you had a good seal on your cube? And the sooner you transfer after flame-out the less likely you'll pick up an infection.

crisputer said:
I've been putting mine in the winpak right after flameout. It seriously sucks in and permenantly destorts the winpak but I feel better about not getting infected.
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I do the same thing: open the ball valve at flame-out, squeeze out the air (if I don't plan on fermenting in the WinPak), and seal tightly. If I want to get the dents out of the WinPak I just fill it with hot water and let it sit for a few minutes, then squeeze it back into shape.
 
eulipion2 said:
Are you sure you had a good seal on your cube? And the sooner you transfer after flame-out the less likely you'll pick up an infection.
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Yeah good point, it could have been that the cap wasn't screwed tight enough. I've gone back to transfering within a few minutes of flameout now, and I'll experiment with other ways of keeping hop aroma.

I just pitched yeast on a new batch yesterday that was definitely more "normal" in the tank (sides still sucked it, smelled great, etc).
 
H-ost said:
I don't want to find the post with his table in it but I have to say I kind of agree with you ghpeel. I'm finding that I am not getting nearly as many IBUs from cube hopping as I expected when I first started this. I get more flavor but not too much aroma either. I haven't cube hopped for a while because I don't fully understand how it will affect the beer yet.

However, for the last 4 batches roughly 2/3 of my total hops are going in FWH and I have been loving the results. FWH combined with an addition at 30-20min has been great for my less hoppy beers and for an Irish red it was FWH>45min>15min and I loved it. There isn't too much science to my method yet, maybe I willl have enough data compiled to understand my utilization better, but for now I kinda look at the recipe and try my best to decide how I should do them with the increased hop utilization we are supposed to be receiving.
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I have a question on FWH. Do you remove the hops before you start boiling or leave them in the entire time?
 
The caps for the cubes have a rubber washer. After use mold can grow between the cap and the washer. The washer needs to be removed, then the cap and the washer need to be Oxi-cleaned.
 
chucke said:
The caps for the cubes have a rubber washer. After use mold can grow between the cap and the washer. The washer needs to be removed, then the cap and the washer need to be Oxi-cleaned.
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Ahhh makes sense. I think I'm just going to get a new cube anyway, but I'll remember that and will clean the cap separately.
 
Bradinator said:
I have been almost exclusively doing no-chill for all my batches. Unless there is some sort of external factor forcing me to chill right after brewing I always leave it overnight. Needless to say I have yet to have a bad beer from it.

I am curious what the ratio of cuber's vs. kettle chiller's are.

I just leave it overnight in the same kettle I boiled it in. I simply clean the lid and lock it down with alligator clips. It takes less then 24 hours (sometimes >16 hours during winter) to reach pitching temperatures at which point I move it into the primary and throw in the yeast.

Maybe I am missing something here, but what is the real advantage of the cube? I no chill because of sheer laziness, so moving near boiling hot wort from one container to another seems redundant if leaving it serves the same purpose.

Is it because in the hotter climates you may be required to leave it for several days before its ready for pitching?
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Long time after the fact but I don't visit the forum much and as a long time no chill cuber, the info may be of use to someone.

The main advantages of cubing are:

-You can completely seal the cube, giving extra protection against infection.
-You can store the cube if you are not ready to ferment. I almost always pitch the next day or day after but I know some people who have successfully fermented a properly sealed cube up to a year later. Week before last I brewed and as I went to look for my wyeast smack pack, I realised I'd used it elsewhere and forgotten. Rather than pitch an inappropriate yeast, I was able to store the wort till I could get some ordered and delivered from the HBS.
-Additional advantage for me is that I ferment directly in mine (in AU, HDPE barrel fermenters are popular) so I like to remove it from the hot break (cold break is not an issue I'm troubled about as I rarely drink beer cold enough to get chill haze).

@ghpeel: I have had a couple of infections from cubes not sealing properly and I learned that there is a great advantage to lying the freshly filled cube on its side for ten or so minutes. If there is any leakage, you should see wort drops on the ground and can re-seal.
 
I do that anyway so that the hot wort will kill any nasties in/around the cap.

I've been no chilling for 12 months, and will quite often have 3 or 4 cubes stacked up, waiting to be fermented as I only have 2 fermenting fridges. I've left them for months and never, ever had an infection.
 
What would be the best no chill container to use for 2.5 gallon batches? Hopefully I can find something locally so I don't have to pay shipping.
 
ghpeel said:
Well I might have my first No Chill failure on my hands. I've been experimenting with letting the wort cool down in the kettle to around 190 or so before transferring into the No Chill tank, in the hopes of getting better hoppy beers. On my last batch, (a Bo Pils) I got it down to 180F before transferring, BUT i was using a new digital thermometer that seems wonky and I suspect the wort was cooler than that.

When I went to pitch yeast, the tank didn't look all sucked in like it normally does. It didn't look bulged out or anything, but it definitely wasn't slightly collapsed like it normally is. The wort smells fairly sour too :(

I pitched and fermented as normal, and I'm cold crashing it now, but the samples I've tasted seemed very lactic-sharp, and had a Wit beer like phenolic aroma. Again, this was a Bohemian Pilsner, so while its way to early to tell, I am not too hopeful.

So let this be a warning at best, and a lesson at worst (if the beer is ruined). Its OK to let your wort cool to 200F or so before pouring in, but don't risk it getting much cooler.
Click to expand...

How long after boiling did you wait before pitching the yeast? Overnight? 1 day?

I doubt there is any way that souring is going to happen in a few hours or even in a day or two. I think lactobaccilus is still going to be killed at above 140F. I'd have to check on that, but I think it's one of the bugs that is pasteurized.
 
Whew, I'm worn out. I noticed red marks on the fronts of my thighs this morning from the heat of my Dell Laptop computer. I read thru this entire thread yesterday - finishing just after midnight. Thank you, Dr_Deathweed, for starting this and for your excellent explanation at the outset.

I was getting sort of lost near the end as the thread branched out into several different, but related, rabbit trails. About 2/3 way thru, someone suggested condensing the thread into a Wiki, but I imagine that that takes a lot of time and energy. I think I have a pretty good idea how to do this.

As with many things, I agonize over some of the small details. I decided to start a new thread to help answer the question of which container to use for no-chill:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/no-chill-containers-345726/#post4305938

This present thread is loaded with valuable information, but it takes a few hours to find out about some of the specific container options.

If some of y'all don't mind, please go over to the new thread and post/show what container you use and, perhaps, say why you chose it over another.

Thanks,
Keith
 
For those of you who No Chill in a HDPE container and pitch yeast the next day: Since the plastic container sinks in during the cooling, I'm thinking that there's a vacuum in the container when you get ready to pitch. Upon opening the container, I would expect a decent influx of air - and stuff - into the container. Do you place a Starsan-soaked rag over the lid as you remove it?

Perhaps this is much ado about nothing, so I'm probably answering my own question. I guess you'd be likely to pick up more stuff from the surrounding air during transfer from the cube into the fermentation vessel (at least as much as when you're racking from kettle into FV after removal of your immersion chiller) than you would from a little gasp from the vacuum releasing.

Thanks,
Keith
 
I just open mine very slowly and try not to let it gurgle to violently. Since you are only going to open it when you are ready to pitch, anything that makes it in there has some hungry yeast to beat out before they can infect your batch.
 
Yeah the chance of a bug getting in there during the release of the vacuum has got to be far less likely than chance you encounter when you are chilling your wort normally and it is open to exposed air for 20-30 minutes while doing so.

Once you've No Chilled for a while, it almost makes you nervous when you see guys who don't No Chill because they "don't want to get an infection" just walk away from a kettle full of raw wort at perfect bug temps while chilling for 20 minutes.

Also if you haven't heard it, 1-2 episodes back on Basic Brewing Radio they did a blind taste test with 2 different recipes having been done as Chilled and No Chilled versions. The panel was completely unable to tell a difference between the same recipe done as Chilled and No Chilled. Obviously us No Chillers knew this would be the case, but it was nice to see it get some more exposure.
 
ghpeel said:
Also if you haven't heard it, 1-2 episodes back on Basic Brewing Radio they did a blind taste test with 2 different recipes having been done as Chilled and No Chilled versions. The panel was completely unable to tell a difference between the same recipe done as Chilled and No Chilled. Obviously us No Chillers knew this would be the case, but it was nice to see it get some more exposure.
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Not surprised at all, though I am also glad No Chill is getting some of the credit it deserves as being a viable technique in home brewing.
 
Anyone here ever No-Chill in a corny, then push out the cold break via c02? I should really say Slo-Chill, as I'll be icebathing the corny & pitching soon after reaching temp. Usually 4-6 hrs.
What about, if you've already got the gas on to push out the cold break, wouldn't pouring the wort thru the tap w/ a higher than serving pressure create enough foam & oxygen in the fermenter to effectively aerate?
Just a couple of late night thoughts as I plan out my next brew day. Any ideas on this ? Much appreciated! BrewOn
 
To avoid confusion, hopefully, I should say the corny is just to hold the wort while it cools. I'll be fermenting in a brew bucket, then racking to keg.
 
crushingblackdoom said:
Anyone here ever No-Chill in a corny, then push out the cold break via c02? I should really say Slo-Chill, as I'll be icebathing the corny & pitching soon after reaching temp. Usually 4-6 hrs.
What about, if you've already got the gas on to push out the cold break, wouldn't pouring the wort thru the tap w/ a higher than serving pressure create enough foam & oxygen in the fermenter to effectively aerate?
Just a couple of late night thoughts as I plan out my next brew day. Any ideas on this ? Much appreciated! BrewOn
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I do this all the time. I don't worry about the break that settles in the keg, I dump it all into the fermenter the next day.
 
The cold break in the wort won't make any difference to the clarity of the final beer. That is dependent on other factors like
1. pH
2. Yeast in suspension
3. Water quality
4. Starch in suspension from incomplete conversion etc.
 
I don't generally run it through the out post, I dump into my fermenter from the big opening in the corny when I go to fermentation. I don't think it will aerate too much that way, but go ahead and try. I would push it with filtered air though, rather than CO2.
 
kzimmer0817 said:
For those of you who No Chill in a HDPE container and pitch yeast the next day: Since the plastic container sinks in during the cooling, I'm thinking that there's a vacuum in the container when you get ready to pitch. Upon opening the container, I would expect a decent influx of air - and stuff - into the container. Do you place a Starsan-soaked rag over the lid as you remove it?

Perhaps this is much ado about nothing, so I'm probably answering my own question. I guess you'd be likely to pick up more stuff from the surrounding air during transfer from the cube into the fermentation vessel (at least as much as when you're racking from kettle into FV after removal of your immersion chiller) than you would from a little gasp from the vacuum releasing.

Thanks,
Keith
Click to expand...

If you break the vacuum and then pitch the yeast there will be no problems. If you break the vacuum and let the nasties in while you are drawing off some cooled wort to make a starter with the intent of pitching in a day or two when the starter gets going? Well....let's just say it's not a good idea, and leave it at that. :(
 
For people looking to find a no chill cube, I was in WinCo shopping with SWMBO, when I came across their water jugs and fill station. Sitting underneath the five gallon jugs was a perfect white 5 gallon cube with a rather tough screw top. Thinking there was no way I could be that lucky I strolled over and flipped it over to see what it was made of. Sure enough there was the HDPE markings. So I picked up two, figuring if I can't use it for no chill I can take it camping with the family for water. I fired up the keg with a little over 5 gallons of water, brought it to a boil, checked the temp 212 degrees, killed the fire and transferred the water into the container. Removing all the air took a bit of time, a few near burns and some swearing but I got almost all of it out. Low and behold a few days later the sides were caved in a slight bit but otherwise this thing was perfect. 212 degrees, which I thought would leave it in a gooey mess on my garage floor, was no problem. So if anyone is near a WinCo you should check them out. As they look really close to the WinPacks I don't thing stacking would be too tough either. And at just over $5 its not a bad price at all.
 
I don't bother with getting most of the air out anymore, squeezing with your knees burns like hell on a hot cube. But I do have my software to account for filling the cubes with a little left over in-case I undershoot my target volumes.

My cubes just get filled to the brim.
 
Saccharomyces said:
Got my 6 gallon containers in from US Plastics today.

dsc01776.jpg


I have a ton of #2 bungs and several blowoff setups for #2 so I drilled 5/8" holes in the center of the lids rather than buying 11.5 bungs.
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Do you no chill in that container? what happens as the wort cools, do the sides cave in a bit? The containers pictured do not look very flexible for the vacuum created as the wort cools.

I like the looks of those and I only want to no chill in them, or maybe ferment. Do you transfer it to remove cold break or anything?
 
chrismcnally said:
Do you no chill in that container? what happens as the wort cools, do the sides cave in a bit? The containers pictured do not look very flexible for the vacuum crated as the wort cools.

I like the looks of those and I only want to no chill in them, or maybe ferment. Do you transfer it to remove cold break or anything?
Click to expand...

I use these containers. Yes, the sides suck in as the wort cools. I cool overnight (mostly, sometimes longer), and then pour everything, break and all, into a 6.5 gal. carboy through a sanitized funnel.

My only complaints about the US Plastics containers are (1) they neck is too small to get a hand through, so you have to count on lots of soaking to get the interior clean, and (2) it's hard to get ALL the liquid out afterward. Otherwise, I'm happy using these containers for no-chill.

I've also used corny kegs, but I have to adjust my batch size down a bit and usually only clear 4-1/2 gallons or so after fermenting, cold-crashing, and fining.
 
If I have all grain recipe that calls for a 60 minute and 20 minute hop addition. Based on The Pol's hop addition chart (page 17) would your total boil time be 40 minutes? My hop schedule would then be 40 minutes, then flame out correct?
 
just do the 60min addition and the flame out. 60 to 90 min is almost no change in IBU.
 
zyx345 said:
If I have all grain recipe that calls for a 60 minute and 20 minute hop addition. Based on The Pol's hop addition chart (page 17) would your total boil time be 40 minutes? My hop schedule would then be 40 minutes, then flame out correct?
Click to expand...

You still do the full time for boil (at least I do) you just move the hop additions. The boil is still driving off DMS and reducing your volume.
 
I usually just chuck in my pellet hops before draining my kettle, though I do end up with more trub in the fermenter and/or loss in the cube. I've considered trying whole hops in a hop bag, but I imagine that would absorb a bunch of wort and may be difficult to remove from the cube.
 
I"m sorry...but what does FWH 30m IBU under flavoring hops mean? I've searched and can't find FWH?? Ferment with hops...add them 30 minutes after transfering wort?
 
cbehr said:
I"m sorry...but what does FWH 30m IBU under flavoring hops mean? I've searched and can't find FWH?? Ferment with hops...add them 30 minutes after transfering wort?
Click to expand...

FWH means First Wort Hops, meaning that you put your hops into the kettle then drain your mash onto them, or if you BIAB, take out your grain bag and add your hops while you squeeze. FWH-ing adds a smoother perceived bitterness, which is why a lot of people calculate them as a 30 or 20 minute addition. So...

FWH (First Wort Hop) 30 min (calculated as a 30 minute addition)
 
So the normal version for example flavoring hops @ 15 mins but I want to add them @ 30 minutes instead? I'm sorry, first time I'm reading on this. I was just adding these flavoring hops @ flameout.
 
From waaaaaay back on page 47, one user's adjustments based on what works for him. They work for me as well, but some people say they have better luck hopping normally as they would with traditional chilling methods.

No_Chill_Hop_Adjust2.bmp


So this user recommends changing traditional 15 and 10 minute additions to FWH, calculating the IBUs as a 30 minute addition. I've read elsewhere that Gordon Strong calculates FWH as a 20 minute addition. For 5 minute and flame-out additions, he recommends dry-hopping. Try it out and see what works for you, but I've had pretty good luck with this chart.
 
Do you have any suggested links on reading about FWH's? I'd like to read a little more about how this method!
 
So the FWH are added before the boil, but they're calculated as a 30-20 minute addition. So for a traditional hop addition:

60 min
15 min
0 min

would translate to no-chill (according to the chart)

FWH (calculated as 30 min, but added before the boil)
40 min
dry-hop.

The "FWH 30m IBU" just means that while the hops are added before the boil, you can expect the same perceived bitterness as a 30 min addition. Just did a quick search of HBT for "First Wort Hops" and discovered that BeerSmith's default calculation is BOIL TIME + 10%.

Again, the rules aren't set in stone, this is just what works for some people.
 

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