Kegging for the first time

So I've decided to make the jump into kegging, and I know there are plenty of threads here on HBT about this. I've done a lot of research on the topic and I think I've found a pretty good deal.

I just want the bare necessities for a 5 gallon batch. No need for a kegerator or anything like that. (yet)

I thought about piecing together a set from used parts... but then I found this.

http://morebeer.com/view_product/12015/102298/Basic_Homebrew_Draft_System_-_Pin_Lock

That looks like a steal! Is it too good to be true? I also checked out KegConnection but couldn't find a 'kit' so to speak. Could just be my haziness so late in the night.

Any input is appreciated
Thanks!

I would go for the ball lock keg instead. They are more popular for many reasons. Also check to see if the place you'll get you tank filled will actually fill your tank or if they only do the exchange program.

I also prefer ball lock kegs for the following reasons:

They are taller and thinner, meaning you can fit more side-by-side inside a kegerator.
Their lids have a manual pressure relief valve. A replacement to switch out your pin lock lid for a ball lock lid costs $20 a piece.
The pin lock posts aren't easy to remove unless you buy a special deep socket wrench adapter or (at least I think) you pull the pins out.

However, pin lock kegs are cheaper and a lot easier to find these days.

I would suggest getting at least a 10 pound CO2 tank. It saves money in the long run, and means you have to get it filled/exchanged less often.

Make sure the system you get has a check valve somewhere on the gas line, or you may ruin your regulator.

Check out the kit from Rebel Brewer. It's a good starter kit and it's where I got mine from.

I see no problems with pinlock kegs, they're just a different design. I've replaced all the rubber seals on my pinlocks and they work just fine. The lack of a manual pressure relief is a little annoying but you can just press in on the gas side poppet to release pressure. Regulators last a long time, and I think you can repair them if necessary. Micromatic sells parts for all their regulators.

I've officially been swayed from pin to ball.

So that leads me down another road, Keg Connection seems to sell at some pretty decent prices. Only problem is I don't really know much about hoses and miscellaneous accessories. I see they sell a reconditioned 5 gall ball lock keg for $50 and a 5 lb c02 tank for for $60. Bringing to the total up to $120 already.

I also found this ball lock set for $160 + shipping. http://www.bvrgelements.com/keg_kit_basic.htmlSame set is around 100 without the c02 tank. And I can get a 7 lb recondition steel tank here: http://www.bvrgelements.com/cyl_products.html for 25 bucks! Anything wrong with that sort of tank?

Then there is this... http://www.homebrewing.org/Homebrew-Kegging-System-BALL-LOCK-_p_69.html

So many options.

If you're strong, and don't mind lugging around an anchor of a CO2 tank, you could go with a steel one... I had a chance to compare two 5# tanks a few weekends ago. One steel the other aluminum, both full... The steel tank was easily twice the weight. If you eventually want to fill up the CO2 tank less often, or have more kegs (don't we all?) then you'll want an aluminum 10# or 20# tank (or one of each)...

Keg Connection has good people working there, that will help you out. Although they have yet to ship me a replacement swivel nut (they sent me a 5/16" barb, but nut for 1/4", I wanted the 5/16" setup)...

I like their red gas line (5/16" ID) since it's double-wall. FAR better than using the PVC reinforced stuff (PITA)... If you decide to get a manifold from them, you can get them to replace the barb with another MFL connection, so that everything is threaded (only way to go IMO)...

A 5# CO2 tank is fine to start with, since you should be able to carbonate, and serve, several kegs (5 gallon) before needing to get it refilled. Just be sure to pressure test ALL the connections before you start using it. This includes the keg seals. Last thing you want/need is to think everything is good, walk away, come back a day later and the CO2 tank is empty. When I installed the bulkhead in my fridge, and connected everything up (CO2 tank outside, to make more room for kegs) I tested it under pressure for about three days (different things on/off to ensure no leaks). You simply turn on the tank, regulator, fill the system with CO2/pressure then turn off the tank and check the gauges X hours later (12-24) to see if you still have pressure. If it remains within a small margin (offset for temperature changes) then you're good. Otherwise, start checking for where it's leaking from. The more complicated the system (more connections on it) the more difficult it could be to check. I do like how Keg Connection puts shutoff valves on their manifolds, and regulators. Makes it easier to hunt down the leaking connection/node...

BTW, don't be too surprised if the kegging hardware list grows to more than you expected. I figured one 5# tank and a pocket charger would be a good start... That lasted maybe a week. I now have one 5# tank, two 2.5# tanks, two 20oz tanks (paintball style, with a regulator from Keg Connection), and one 20# tank... All, except the paintball style, are aluminum. I have a 3 port manifold inside the fridge, so I can carbonate/serve three kegs at the same time. I'm using 2.5 and 3 gallon kegs right now. Once I move, I plan to get/build a keezer and also use 5 gallon kegs. I have one empty keg right now (three are in the fridge, full) and another on it's way (both are 3 gallon) so that I can completely keg the next batch when it's ready (3 weeks in primary as of tomorrow).

I would advise having a spare set of O-rings on hand, as well as some keg lube. Always plan on having at least one O-ring set on hand. That way when you need to change them, you can do so right away and not need to get to the LHBS, or order them...

I would also advise hunting for a fire extinguisher repair/reconditioning company in your area. There's one near where I'm working (in Quincy, MA) that charges very little to fill up tanks. $10 for a 5# tank, $18 for a 20#... Most welding gas places will want to charge you ~$20 to swap out a 5# tank. If you have a new tank, why swap it with an older one? If you go in with an aluminum tank, there's no guarantee you'll walk out with an aluminum tank. You have 5 years before it needs to be certified/stamped again. If you have a spare (you should by then) it's not an issue to get it done. If you decide to get some paintball gun style tanks, you can get those filled at most paintball stores for about $5 (the one in Framingham,MA charges that much). If they also have a compressor, you could get them to fill your larger tanks.

$50 (plus shipping) for 1 reconditioned keg is pretty expensive. If youre willing to do a little work ,replacing gaskets and such, wait until you find a keg on HBT Classifieds or Craigslist (I just recently found 3 ball locks for $60 total on the east side of Cleve). They were pretty gross inside but nothing a little Bar Keepers Friend and muscle couldnt fix. If you go that route you could always pick up the rest of it with a kit like this from Keg Cowboy http://kegcowboy.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=133

I just started kegging about a month ago. My only advice I can offer you is to start with at least 10' of beverage line per keg. If you order the kit from kegconnection they only give you a 4-5' line, which i later found out will do nothing but make foam. Now I am waiting for my new line to come in the mail.

I wound up getting all my stuff from Beverage Elements. What I got comes with 5 feet of 3/16" beverage line. What causes shorter lines to give off foam?

something about resistance. mine hose isn't very long (haha) probably about five feet, and it works fine. see if your stuff works first and if not get a longer line, no big deal.

I'm not sure that's entirely correct about the beer line length. I've got the kegerator conversion kit from KegConnection and the 5 foot lengths do just fine for me unless i serve higher than 13 PSI (which i can't think of any types that should be served higher) and even then if you pour a half pint first to get the faucet cooled down then i still don't have any issues. I'd rather pour slower and form the head i want with about 7-10 PSI.

First of all, thanks for all the input. It's helped me a lot so far.

Now- I'll be kegging in a week or so. I'm a little nervous, although I'm sure I shouldn't be. What things should I not do that would put me in danger?

I've heard many different answers to how to carbonate a keg. After bleeding out the oxygen and all that good stuff... what psi should I pump into the keg of beer and for how long? I've read I should roll the keg while doing so. Also, what psi should I dispense at? I've heard 30-40 psi for 48 hours but thats sounds crazy to me. I've also heard 30 psi for 5 minutes while rolling.

Also, I heard about chilling your beer in the fermenter. My thing is I will be transporting this keg a good distance after it's done so it will get to room temperature again. Will that affect the beer's taste or quality?

first off, no need to worry. tons of idiots keg (me for example). so you should be able to do it just fine. do a search for carbonation chart. it will tell you what psi at what temperature will give you what level of carb. for me its easy, my keg is in my fridge so its cold. i've found about 12 psi is perfect for me. put the beer in, bleed the O2 and set it at 12 for two weeks. done. people will do different methods (shaking, rocking, jacking up the psi for a day.....) but the set and forget method is the easiest. if your planing on carbing the beer warm the psi will be higher (i think thirty or fourty?) the chart will tell you how much.

will the beer being cold then warm then cold again be detrimental? probably not. beer at the store is warm somtimes then i take it home and put it in the fridge and its fine. i wouldn't want it to go warm, cold, warm, cold, warm, cold..... or anything like that. but having a cold beer warm then chilled again is probably ok. good luck! your going to love the keg

I remember my first kegging experience, and then thinking "That's all there is to it ??"

I used to force carb, but now just let 'em sit under pressure for a week or so ...most of the time I need to wait an extra week or so for the beer to finish....one good thing to think about is a manifold, as you will find 1 keg isn;t enough..

tmains said:

First of all, thanks for all the input. It's helped me a lot so far.

Now- I'll be kegging in a week or so. I'm a little nervous, although I'm sure I shouldn't be. What things should I not do that would put me in danger?

I've heard many different answers to how to carbonate a keg. After bleeding out the oxygen and all that good stuff... what psi should I pump into the keg of beer and for how long? I've read I should roll the keg while doing so. Also, what psi should I dispense at? I've heard 30-40 psi for 48 hours but thats sounds crazy to me. I've also heard 30 psi for 5 minutes while rolling.

Also, I heard about chilling your beer in the fermenter. My thing is I will be transporting this keg a good distance after it's done so it will get to room temperature again. Will that affect the beer's taste or quality?

Click to expand...

I got my kit from keg connection and was pleased. Only beef was that the reconditioned keg was not reconditioned at all. The product over all good and has served me well but I second the need for longer beer line. I think I have 7.5 feet.

Anyway there are tons of threads about carbing a keg all which depend on how patient you are and who you take your advice from. I would never shake or roll the keg myself. Too much a PITA for inconsistent results but I don't like waiting an extra one to two weeks either. I set mine at 30 for 36 hours, back it down to serving pressure and a day to two days later it's about perfect. Couldn't be simpler.

Mr Duna, couldn't help but notice you are from Louisville?

I'm a native Kentuckian myself and that's where I'll be taking this keg when it's all done. To the motherland! I have a friend who is having a birthday get together. I'm leaving Cleveland on Wednesday (kegging on Tuesdayish) and continuing carbing once I get to KY until Saturday when we will hopefully drink my efforts. I haven't decided if I want to keg the Stone IPA or the GLBC Burning River. Both Austin Homebrew kits.

So I'm gonna probably do the whole rolling on the floor thing at 30 psi and test every few hours until it seems about right.

Thanks all!

Also- I'm currently dry hopping both brews. 1 oz centennial and 1/2 oz chinook for the stone ipa. 1 oz cascade for the burning river. Once I put the beer in the keg would it perhaps be a good idea to throw a bag of whole leaf hops in there with it to serve?

tmains said:

Mr Duna, couldn't help but notice you are from Louisville?

I'm a native Kentuckian myself and that's where I'll be taking this keg when it's all done. To the motherland! I have a friend who is having a birthday get together. I'm leaving Cleveland on Wednesday (kegging on Tuesdayish) and continuing carbing once I get to KY until Saturday when we will hopefully drink my efforts. I haven't decided if I want to keg the Stone IPA or the GLBC Burning River. Both Austin Homebrew kits.

So I'm gonna probably do the whole rolling on the floor thing at 30 psi and test every few hours until it seems about right.

Thanks all!

Also- I'm currently dry hopping both brews. 1 oz centennial and 1/2 oz chinook for the stone ipa. 1 oz cascade for the burning river. Once I put the beer in the keg would it perhaps be a good idea to throw a bag of whole leaf hops in there with it to serve?

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Sounds like good time man! Get ready to sweat though... It's getting into the mid to upper 90's every day around here not counting the good ol Ohio valley heat index! Good luck on your first keg brotha!

Btw that 1/2 ounce dry hop on the stone IPA sounds rather small but it's been a while since I had it. Is that per the AHS kit?

I use pinlocks that I got from kegconnection.. one of them has a manual release on the lid, the other 5 I have dont... it's not really a big deal and one less thing to screw up..

I actually keep a tool in my pocket all the time to "deflate" a pinlock keg, it's called a car key..

mrduna01 said:

Sounds like good time man! Get ready to sweat though... It's getting into the mid to upper 90's every day around here not counting the good ol Ohio valley heat index! Good luck on your first keg brotha!

Btw that 1/2 ounce dry hop on the stone IPA sounds rather small but it's been a while since I had it. Is that per the AHS kit?

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It's actually 1 oz centennial and 1/2 oz chinook. That's per AHS kit. I am thinking about putting 1 oz of whole leaf centennial into the keg for dispensing. I'm not sure if that's a good idea or not though.

Can't wait to be back in KY!

tmains said:

It's actually 1 oz centennial and 1/2 oz chinook. That's per AHS kit. I am thinking about putting 1 oz of whole leaf centennial into the keg for dispensing. I'm not sure if that's a good idea or not though.

Can't wait to be back in KY!

Click to expand...

Oh my bad 1 and 1/2 sounds pretty good. I don't think the whole leaf will hurt anything but I might think about suspending them in a muslin bag... Leaf hops seem like they would clog the dip tube if not contained.

Definitely dry hop in a bag or the dip tube will clog. Especially since you are traveling with the keg. Let it sit in it's serving place for a few days before the party or else it will be very yeasty and cloudy.

OP to carbonate, set the keg to 25psi and roll on the ground for a minute. Turn down to serving pressure (12 or so) and level the gas on. You can shake after a day or two at 12 psi without danger of overcarbing.

Awesome, I think I've figured out the plan then. I'll come back and update when everything gets kegged and squared away. Perhaps I'll have some questions in the process.

Thanks!

kappclark said:

I remember my first kegging experience, and then thinking "That's all there is to it ??"

I used to force carb, but now just let 'em sit under pressure for a week or so ...most of the time I need to wait an extra week or so for the beer to finish....one good thing to think about is a manifold, as you will find 1 keg isn;t enough..

Click to expand...

Good advice right there. I haven't even finished my first kegged beer yet and I already ordered another keg! Probably shoulda just ordered two more because I'm sure I will have at least 3 eventually

Hey Tmains, looks like your using pin locks, if so theres a couple kegs available on the east side of town.

http://cleveland.craigslist.org/for/2526417937.html

Yeah I just saw those actually.

I picked up a ball lock and it should be in the mail today. Maybe I'll check those out though. Nice price

Update:

I kegged the beer. I've been letting it sit today at a lower psi, around 10. I thought I'd plug up the beer out line to see how carb'd it was and BAM. Beer spewing everywhere. Even when I plugged up the line with the faucet it would come out uncontrollably while co2 was pumped in. I googled the problem and found it could be the poppet. I reseated both poppets and it still does it. Any other sources for the problem?

Guessing "plug up" = "connected", if the beer line quick disconnect is seated properly the poppet is wide open. So, if you're seeing leaks around the base of the beer line quick disconnect when you've attempted to connect it, it seems most likely you don't have the QD seated all the way down.

If you had an actual poppet problem it would be most evident when you remove the QD and you see beer leaking around the poppet seal...

[edit] btw, you do have a serviceable O-ring around the top of the Out post, yes?

Cheers!

Theoretically should I be able to pour beer from a keg that has been under 20 PSI while slowly chilling in the fridge? It's been in there for a few hours and nothing happens when I open the picnic tap. The hose has some beer in it but wont move when I open the tap?

Do I have a clog? It's a ten foot hose.

rycov said:

first off, no need to worry. tons of idiots keg (me for example). so you should be able to do it just fine. do a search for carbonation chart. it will tell you what psi at what temperature will give you what level of carb.

Click to expand...

There's a chart in these handy instructions from morebeer:

http://morebeer.com/kegging.pdf

And yes, you'll love kegging. It may feel awkward the first few times you do it, but you will get to a point where you can keg two batches in half the time it takes to bottle one.

False alarm. Turns out my picnic style faucet was just turned a little bit too much. The beer was coming out. The simple things always get ya. Damn!