All grain equipment

Hello brewers. I currently have done extract and partial mash brewing and am considering jumping to AG simply because there are more recipes available and it sounds like it is cheaper. DME in Chicago is $5 a lb and liquid is not much cheaper when you factor in shipping. Local LHBS sells canned extract.

I can't really find what the consensus is about basic AG equipment. What do you need? Tanks.

All-grain uses more water than extract brewing so you will need a larger AND an additional kettle.
Search BIAB (brew in a bag) on this sight or google, lots of info. OR
You could buy or make a mash tun with a cooler (5 gallon minimum imo).
A sturdy long spoon/mash paddle.
A 1/2 gallon pitcher for vorlauf (if you use a mash tun).
Definitely your own mill.
I may be missing something, so hopefully someone else will pick up my slack.

I have a method I have not seen in any video or talked about on any forum. I have 2 size able pots (got one as a lobster steaming pot at the grocery store for 14 bucks!) I mash in one and then put a biab bag in the other and pour into the bag. Then my bag becomes my 'false bottom' of a mash tun and I strain the grains with that. While the grains are draining ( I've got a home made rig to help with that) I am heating sparge in pot 1. Or I might have already heated it in my pasta pot. I usually double batch sparge to really get all of it out. I combine each sparge with the first runnings and everything else is exactly the same as brewing extract.

I have not done the math but I feel like my system is pretty efficient. My first batch was a 2.5 gal kolsch with 5 lbs of German pils and less than 1lb of other grains. Came out to a 1.075 og. I had halved a recipe I found on the Internet and it was shooting for about 1.055. Big difference

The reason I do it this way was because I did biab one time. One time only. I constantly felt like I was going to drag the bag all the way into the pot with stirring. And temp control was really hard when you are trying to add a little heat but keep the bag off the bottom of the pot so it does not scorch

I was doing extract up until about 3 months ago. I had your basic kit, 5 gallons, pot, pales, etc. I could have prob kept my 5 gallon to use as my HLT but I didn't want to drill holes and what not so I got 2 of the 9 gallon economy pots from Brew & Grow(http://www.brewandgrow.com/brew/economy-kettle-9-gallon-w-1-2-npt-fittings.html). I made my MLT from the DIY section here( https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/cheap-easy-10-gallon-rubbermaid-mlt-conversion-23008/). The pots were $90 each, the MLT costed about $65(everything is at Home Depot). I also purchased 2 ball valves and 1 probe thermometer, again got these from Brew & Grow for about $60. I don't have any pumps, I just use gravity to transfer from device to device. I did buy about 10 feet of the high temp tubing. Your means of heating might need to change, I had an electric stove which I couldn't use for full boils so I bought the banjo burner for $100. So in the end to switch over I prob spent $300-$400 but I've made 2 batches already and I'm glad I made the switch.

radiodome21 said:

Hello brewers. I currently have done extract and partial mash brewing and am considering jumping to AG simply because there are more recipes available and it sounds like it is cheaper. DME in Chicago is $5 a lb and liquid is not much cheaper when you factor in shipping. Local LHBS sells canned extract.

I can't really find what the consensus is about basic AG equipment. What do you need? Tanks.

Click to expand...

See www.dennybrew.com for the Cheap'n'Easy system. I've used it for 436 batches. The AHA has made a video based on my system that should be available soon.

I only have an 8 gallon pot with a ball valve, a converted 10 gallon round cooler for a mash tun, and a bucket. I just brewed my second AG batch last night with this equipment. So it can be done. Depends on your method.

I've seen the AG BIAB first hand through a friend, and it seems like a complete waste of time and efficiency. But that's just me...

Gary

Just out of curiosity, what makes biab a waste of time and efficiency? I've DONE and read about systems that get just as good efficiancies as traditional MLT. And biab is usually reported to SAVE time. I'm about to build a single vessel recirculating biab system so i'm just curious as to what your thoughts and observstions are.

I am a believer in a used keg for a mashtun. Cut the top off, use the piece for a false bottom (drill a bunch of small holes and a stainless scrubber in the top hole). Drill for a 1/2" ball valve and add a copper tube for the dip tube. A second keg or a large kettle from a private party or resturant supply for a boil kettle.
In many cases you can buy a thousand bucks or more worth of stuff, like a complete brewing setup, for a few hundred dollars online or on a local ad service.
I have invested about $500 and have 3 kegs (mashtun, boil kettle, fermenter) 5 carboys, 2 outdoor cookers w tanks, 2 wort chillers, 2 large kettles, scale, hydrometers, thermometers, tubing, spoon, cleaning supplies, sanitizer and a tray, racking canes, carboy brushes, and misc. small parts. I use a plastic bottling bucket and a capper. I still need a mill.

I buy my 2 row malt from a commercial brewer by the sack, save my yeast, buy hops in quantity online (some people grow theirs). I get my specialty malts and hops from the beer store. My beers are costing about 30 cents a pint (never mind my labor, that is for love). I get at least 10-12 gal batches and I could do 2 batches in a day with two cookers and 5 carboys.
Drinking- Organic double chocolate stout, Founder's rye clone, and a pale ale. Bottle conditioning- Mirror Pond clone. In the fermenters- a variant of the rye; it is so good, I have to do another.

mikeysab said:

Just out of curiosity, what makes biab a waste of time and efficiency? I've DONE and read about systems that get just as good efficiancies as traditional MLT. And biab is usually reported to SAVE time. I'm about to build a single vessel recirculating biab system so i'm just curious as to what your thoughts and observstions are.

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I just don't think its easier or a time saver once you move out of the kitchen.
people get great efficiency with it. 5-10 gallon BIAB setups seem to get just as complicated as a mashtun setup.

Everybody is going to have a different take on this. So here's mine!

I had a turkey fryer setup borrowed from my neighbor, and I've mostly replaced it with my own gear since I started a year and a half ago.

My brew process goes something like this: Measure my strike water and start heating it, mill the grain, combine in the cooler and start the mash, measure my sparge water, heat that and transfer to the HLT (or just heat it in a separate pot), drain the mash and batch sparge it, boil the wort, chill the wort, drain to the bucket, rehydrate my yeast, pitch it, wait 3 weeks, bottle it, wait 2 weeks, drink it. There are plenty of science-y steps along the way like checking gravity and temperature and cleaning the gear, but those aren't actually required to make beer.

My main equipment is this:

• Propane burner and tank - can't do much without this!
• 15 gallon aluminum pot - I got it at a kitchen supply store for $60 and added a ball valve from BargainFittings.com. It's fantastic.
• 54 quart picnic cooler - I added a CPVC manifold instead of the toilet braid.
• Copper coil immersion chiller - You could let your brew chill overnight with no help (I know a LHBS owner who does just that), but if you want to get it done quickly you need a chiller of some sort.
• 8 gallon fermenting/bottling buckets.
• Thermometer, hydrometer, big spoon, etc.

I also have a 5 gallon water cooler I use as a hot liquor tank, but recently I've just been using one of the turkey fryer pots I still have on hand so I can keep my brew kettle available for collecting wort. I make use of my neighbor's grain mill to double-crush the grains I get from the LHBS, but that's not necessarily required, I just feel like I get better efficiency, and it's there so I use it. And until I throw out my back lifting the mash tun, HLT, or full buckets up to my workbench, I don't have any need for pumps.

When I think of brewing essentials, I think big burner, brew kettle, cooler (mash tun), and a HLT so I can free up my brew kettle when it's time to collect the mash runnings. Boil it, chill it (or wait), drain it into the bucket, pitch the yeast and let it ferment. I also use an auto-siphon that I truly hate and am about to ditch, and I just started using a Johnson temp controller to keep my brew from getting too cold in the garage. Also, one of the best mods I've made to my brew setup is adding a hose bib to the incoming water line on my water heater. I connect an RV drinking water hose to that and I use it to collect my brew water and to run through my immersion chiller. It's as direct from the ground water as you can get, and it's got great flow! So much easier than lugging water from the kitchen sink or running hoses from the side of the house.

What'd I miss?

amandabab said:

I just don't think its easier or a time saver once you move out of the kitchen.
people get great efficiency with it. 5-10 gallon BIAB setups seem to get just as complicated as a mashtun setup.

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I'm a lazy sob. I've done the traditional propane burner, cooler mlt, batch sparge, ice bath chill. It got to a point where the thought of taking out all the equipment deterred me from brewing. The thought of a single vessel system where i lift the grains out of the wort and turn the heating elements on makes my nipples twitch. Of course, theres the possibility i'll hate it and give up brewing, but it seems easier to me.

mikeysab said:

I'm a lazy sob. I've done the traditional propane burner, cooler mlt, batch sparge, ice bath chill. It got to a point where the thought of taking out all the equipment deterred me from brewing. The thought of a single vessel system where i lift the grains out of the wort and turn the heating elements on makes my nipples twitch. Of course, theres the possibility i'll hate it and give up brewing, but it seems easier to me.

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Try lifting a 16-20 lb. bag of hot, wet grain and you might decide it's not all you thought.

With the help of a pulley and a hook to tie the basket off to, i dont foresee a problem.

mikeysab said:

With the help of a pulley and a hook to tie the basket off to, i dont foresee a problem.

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I'm sure that would work, but it sure doesn't make the whole process as easy as it sounds like it should be. For me, using a cooler would be much easier. To each their own.

If nothing else, i'll save time not sparging. The biggest time saver will be switching to electric. With two 5500w elements, water and wort will be heated much quicker than my old propane burner.

a pulley works, a cheap harbor freight electric hoist work better (and easier)

but this is more cost and more complication. The method is sound but it quickly becomes not the cheapest and simplest way to brew beer that its often portrayed as. you quickly start designing your system so you can BIAB, rather than BIAB as a way to eliminate equipment.


I've seen electric hoist automated HERM's BIAB systems.

amandabab said:

a pulley works, a cheap harbor freight electric hoist work better (and easier).

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Great, now you've got me thinking about adding an electric hoist to my garage!

mikeysab said:

If nothing else, i'll save time not sparging. The biggest time saver will be switching to electric. With two 5500w elements, water and wort will be heated much quicker than my old propane burner.

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But you can no sparge in a cooler, too. Personally, I find the 5-7 min. it takes me to batch sparge is worth the extra efficiency I get.

batch sparging is fast :rockin:

Denny said:

But you can no sparge in a cooler, too. Personally, I find the 5-7 min. it takes me to batch sparge is worth the extra efficiency I get.

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Ok. You convinced me....im returning everything and going back to my cooler system. Since it seems like thats the only way.

mikeysab said:

Ok. You convinced me....im returning everything and going back to my cooler system. Since it seems like thats the only way.

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Of course it's not the only way. You can brew any way that suits you. I'm simply pointing out that some of the supposed "advantages" of BIAB aren't much of an advantage.

I think thats a matter of opinion. For me, having one vessel, with heating elements installed that i can heat water in, mash grains in and cool wort in is an advantage over having a propane tank, burner, kettle, and cooler that i have to transfer liquids into and out of.
I understand you're a very accomplished, award winning homebrewer, but like you said earlier, to each his own. Now, if after I put my new system together, it doesnt work or i cant stand it, i'll gladly come here and tell you you were right. But, in my opinion, that won't be happening.

Denny said:

See www.dennybrew.com for the Cheap'n'Easy system. I've used it for 436 batches. The AHA has made a video based on my system that should be available soon.

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This is the cheap and easy way to switch to ag, before investing a ton of money try it. You have to remember time, ag requirers more time so its not for everyone. My self I do both but in the summer months its mostly extract because of time constrants so you may want to go cheaper at first

doby said:

This is the cheap and easy way to switch to ag, before investing a ton of money try it. You have to remember time, ag requirers more time so its not for everyone. My self I do both but in the summer months its mostly extract because of time constrants so you may want to go cheaper at first

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I do all grain BIAB and find that it doesn't take significantly more time than doing extract with steeping grains. While lifting 20 pounds of hot wet grains seems like it would be difficult, it really isn't. I don't hold them at arms length for long as I set the bag of grains into a colander and let them drain there without having to hold them up.

I have done both BIAB and used a 10 gallon round cooler for a mashtun with batch sparging and I like the mashtun version best. However the reason is simply that I like all the time spent doing this. When I plan a brewday I always allot 6 hours for it because from getting the equip out of storage to putting it back takes that long. I enjoy doing this hobby and am not in a hurry. Heck, if I want fast beer I would just go buy beer.
Not to say that BIAB doesn't have a place in my brewing plans. I like it for smaller batches in weather situations which would keep me from brewing at all that day. I also have a 2 gallon round cooler which I built into a mash tun for small batches. It uses a cpvc manifold, an exact but smaller version of my 10 gallon setup. I have gotten up in the middle of the night and brewed beer in both the BIAB setup and the 2 gallon mashtun setup. Almost all my equip is homemade also, which adds to the enjoyment of the hobby, it's something I did myself.
But in answer to the OP question, I wouldn;t buy a grain mill just yet, you may decide AG is too much trouble and decide to stick with extract/partial grain.
Also with AG you will need a bigger pot, and a big enough burner to heat more water. Don't try to skimp on these two items, they make AG easier if you enough capacity and the means to heat quickly.
As far as rigging a cable and pully in the garage.....I picture in my mind someone somewhere who has done this and tied their car to it and have a horror tale to tell us about the results....especially if they had been following the rules of relax, have a home brew...or 2 or 6 or 8...:^)

All of the comments about brewing equipment and methodology are interesting. A question: How do you brew in the kitchen and stay married? It seems almost impossible to get through the process without some kind of a spill. I brew outside on my deck on good days and no harm comes of it. I did have a full 6 gal. carboy break and burnt circles in my deck from a hot keg (momentary concentration laspse- sander will repair). Either of those incidents would have resulted in divorce in the kitchen. I have fantasies about turning my shed into a brewhouse but then where would all of the stuff in the shed go?

To stay married: brew into the wee hours and clean the kitchen top to bottom after you finish. Women like clean kitchens.

First wife didn't like me brewing in the kitchen, or brewing at all for that matter......maybe thats why she is the ex..
Seriously tho, the answer to not having spills, (meaning boilovers) is having the proper equipment such as a boil pot big enough for the volume being boiled, and a watchful eye. A spray bottle of cold water on hand helps and being able to reduce heat quickly helps too. Thats the difference between a gas stove and an electric stove.
I have been brewing since 2000 and never had a boilover.

Simple answer. The wife likes the beer as much as I do. I always have at least a couple drips but I get them with a wet paper towel ASAP and I don't use glass. Only better bottles. I've never had a big spill and the worst boil over I've has was from a dme boil for a starter so it was pretty manageable. A lot of what I do is actually on the floor so that reduces the possibility of dropping something from a height and having it explode on the floor ( like a big bag o grain. Only when I am actually heating am I on the stove. Picking up a wet 20lb grain bag with a few gallons of hot liquor and a hot stove is ludicrous. Put it on the ground and use you legs like they taught us in school

RM-MN said:

I do all grain BIAB and find that it doesn't take significantly more time than doing extract with steeping grains. While lifting 20 pounds of hot wet grains seems like it would be difficult, it really isn't. I don't hold them at arms length for long as I set the bag of grains into a colander and let them drain there without having to hold them up.

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Never tried BIAB only because I didn't think it would save time compared to batch sparging or the differnce would be small. My typical brew day with batch sparging is 5 to 6 hours if I could cut that to 3 or 4 then I could manage that after work weekdays.

Whats your typical time frame with BIAB?

mikeysab said:

Just out of curiosity, what makes biab a waste of time and efficiency? I've DONE and read about systems that get just as good efficiancies as traditional MLT. And biab is usually reported to SAVE time. I'm about to build a single vessel recirculating biab system so i'm just curious as to what your thoughts and observstions are.

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Sorry mang... I should have described what I meant about efficiency. I wasn't referring to the "brewhouse" efficiency. What I was actually talking about was the so called time and labor savings of AG BIAB.

The day I have to use a 10 foot ladder to brew with... will be the day I'm standing on it adding hops to a 15bbl kettle.

Gary

i'm in the BIAB camp and for the money invested in equipment it is a great way to do A.G.
i find that people will make their hobby as complicated as needed to fit their needs.
i like KISS keep it simple, stupid.
nothing wrong with either camp three tier, fly sparging, batch sparging or BIAB...it's whatever a person feels good about.
i found pulling the rope to lift 13 -17 lbs of water laden grain scarey so I invested in this: http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/hand-winch-600-lb-pulling-capacity?cm_vc=-10005

really helped and my beers have been great ......:rockin:

GD51

GASoline71 said:

The day I have to use a 10 foot ladder to brew with... will be the day I'm standing on it adding hops to a 15bbl kettle.

Gary

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10 foot ladder for brewing? I've been seeing that described for biab and dont get it. I've seen people using ladders more for cooler brewing than biab. My system certainly isn't going to be using any ladders.

amandabab said:

I just don't think its easier or a time saver once you move out of the kitchen.
people get great efficiency with it. 5-10 gallon BIAB setups seem to get just as complicated as a mashtun setup.

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I get 80% efficiency and save about an hour over fly sparging. It's quite easy and can accommodate grain bills to 15+ LBS for 5 gallon batches. I find it much less complicated.

doby said:

Whats your typical time frame with BIAB?

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Around 3.5 to 4 Hours depending on mash profile and boil time.

mikeysab said:

10 foot ladder for brewing? I've been seeing that described for biab and dont get it. I've seen people using ladders more for cooler brewing than biab. My system certainly isn't going to be using any ladders.

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I've seen it in pics here... and my buddy that did it as well. A ladder and a pulley system to lift a 20 lb. to 30 lb. bag of wet grains out of a 15 gallon kettle.

I use a 10 gallon cooler mash tun... and don't lift it once during the whole brewing process. I don't lift my kettle either... I am also not using any pumps. It is super simple...

Only thing I lift on brew day is pints of homebrew...

Gary

doby said:

Never tried BIAB only because I didn't think it would save time compared to batch sparging or the differnce would be small. My typical brew day with batch sparging is 5 to 6 hours if I could cut that to 3 or 4 then I could manage that after work weekdays.

Whats your typical time frame with BIAB?

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It usually takes me about 3 1/2 hours for a brew day for 2 1/2 gallon batches, a little longer for a 5 gallon batch as it takes longer for the heating and cooling. Never over 4 hours from starting to bring equipment from the basement to the kitchen until the brew is in the fermenter and everything cleaned and put away again. I think I could do 2 batches in the 6 hours you have mentioned. My big time difference is using the kitchen stove to heat and a tub of water with snow in it for cooling. A good propane burner and an immersion cooler would probably speed up the process but then I would be brewing outside and some days I want to brew aren't very nice to be outside.:rockin:

GASoline71 said:

I've seen it in pics here... and my buddy that did it as well. A ladder and a pulley system to lift a 20 lb. to 30 lb. bag of wet grains out of a 15 gallon kettle.

I use a 10 gallon cooler mash tun... and don't lift it once during the whole brewing process. I don't lift my kettle either... I am also not using any pumps. It is super simple...

Only thing I life on brew day is pints of homebrew...

Gary

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I've seen it too. Not pointing fingers at anyone but i think some people feel that a ladder is a required piece of equipment for biab. For me, building a stand out of unistrut is the way to go. I got scrap pieces of strut from work and nuts and bolts from my dads material collection so the stand is free. Add a pulley with a hook to suspend the basket/bag and viola. But thats just me. I've seen people use chairs, tables, milk crates......anything to build tiers or platforms. Thats perfectly fine and I don't knock it it at all. Its about makin beer and however people get that done effectively, good for them.

doby said:

Never tried BIAB only because I didn't think it would save time compared to batch sparging or the differnce would be small. My typical brew day with batch sparging is 5 to 6 hours if I could cut that to 3 or 4 then I could manage that after work weekdays.

Whats your typical time frame with BIAB?

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I can do an AG batch sparge brew in about 4 hours.

mikeysab said:

I've seen it too. Not pointing fingers at anyone but i think some people feel that a ladder is a required piece of equipment for biab. For me, building a stand out of unistrut is the way to go. I got scrap pieces of strut from work and nuts and bolts from my dads material collection so the stand is free. Add a pulley with a hook to suspend the basket/bag and viola. But thats just me. I've seen people use chairs, tables, milk crates......anything to build tiers or platforms. Thats perfectly fine and I don't knock it it at all. Its about makin beer and however people get that done effectively, good for them.

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Good post. I am not trying to point fingers either. The AG BIAB works for some people, no doubt. I guess (for me) after seeing the complete simplicity of AG brewing with a 10 gallon round cooler for a mash tun, and a single infusion mash with a batch sparge... it suprises me that the AG BIAB even exists.

Gary