What's your occupation: Engineer or Non-Engineer

passedpawn said:

I'm one. Not just in degree, but I actually design electronic devices, mostly medical. Schematic design, PCB layout, firmware, soldering, debugging. I have a 1-man consulting company. I know there are others here.

I just finished the board layout for a really cool O2 sensor tonight. It will measure the O2 concentration using light. I bounce red light off a tablet that contains a powder that fluoresces. There is a very small time lag (nanoseconds) between when the red light hits the tablet and when it floresces. I blast the tablet with a high-frequency sine wave then use FFT (fast fourier transform) to measure the lag in response. This lag is proportional to the amount of O2 where the tablet is.

The cool thing is that it can be used in liquid, so works with beer! Once I get it working I'll watch the O2 deplete in my carboy during fermentation. Can't wait.

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That sounds like a cool project! I'd be interested to see what kind of readings you'd get during fermentation.

Is that the same Festo (on one of the silk layers, it looks like) that makes a lot of air cylinders and such?

Here's one of my designs -- a little embedded computer based on an ARM926 processor, meant for industrial automation. An LCD panel / touch screen connect to that pin header at the top, but they cover the entire board when they're installed. This was the first one to be built, so there's lots of little mistakes (note the wires tacked on and cartoonishly big power connector), but it does work!

Software engineer. My team designs communication systems for the Air Force.

I have a BM in Vocal Performance so, naturally, I am a security supervisor at a nuclear plant.

BS in math and physics, phd student in physics,

I voted enginner; I suppose I was more enginner than not.

not an enginer but a machinist, I make what the enginer draws, and complain about how there drawings suck and dimensions are off.
I cook constantly
I also butcher, farm, work in a book store, gunsmith, basically im a jackass of all trades

Chef first, health promotion second, and aircraft mechanic as a hobby. Sheetmetal stuck with me

Draft technician. I install draft beer systems. So draft beer engineer!

weirdboy said:

:fro: If you are an actual engineer you drive a train and wear a striped hat.

Seriously, I can name maybe 2-3 lifelong engineers I know personally that went through the PE process, including like a gazillion people I know that work at NASA. Are you saying NASA folks aren't engineers?

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Actually yes I am saying they aren't engineers if they are not licensed.
Working in engineering, doing the work for an engineer, having an engineering degree or introducing yourself as an engineer does not make you an actual engineer.
Passing your exam and being board certified, with your license number and stamp makes you an engineer.

Those people working on design for NASA are probably working under an engineer who supervise, directs, reviews and stamps the work. He is also liable for the design.

For the record, I'm not an engineer.
I'm a land surveyor.
Same board that regulates, different profession.

The fact that they aren't engineers doesn't make their work any less important or make them less intelligent. I for one went a very long time before I took my exam and got my survey license. I was happy doing the work in the field and never saw the need to take the exam until an opportunity presented it's self and I needed my license.

Many of the fields that call them self engineers and aren't actual engineers are full of very smart people who figure out complex problems. It still doesn't change the fact that they aren't actual engineers.
Every state has a board of registration, probably a branch of department of licensing and the board is probably made up of engineers and surveyors. They oversee actual engineers ( and surveyors ) and on their web site you will find the true and legal definition of an engineer. It will be very close to the same in every state.

45_70sharps said:

Actually yes I am saying they aren't engineers if they are not licensed.
Working in engineering, doing the work for an engineer, having an engineering degree or introducing yourself as an engineer does not make you an actual engineer.
Passing your exam and being board certified, with your license number and stamp makes you an engineer.

Those people working on design for NASA are probably working under an engineer who supervise, directs, reviews and stamps the work. He is also liable for the design.

For the record, I'm not an engineer.
I'm a land surveyor.
Same board that regulates, different profession.

The fact that they aren't engineers doesn't make their work any less important or make them less intelligent. I for one went a very long time before I took my exam and got my survey license. I was happy doing the work in the field and never saw the need to take the exam until an opportunity presented it's self and I needed my license.

Many of the fields that call them self engineers and aren't actual engineers are full of very smart people who figure out complex problems. It still doesn't change the fact that they aren't actual engineers.
Every state has a board of registration, probably a branch of department of licensing and the board is probably made up of engineers and surveyors. They oversee actual engineers ( and surveyors ) and on their web site you will find the true and legal definition of an engineer. It will be very close to the same in every state.

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Someone angry about not being in NASA?

a_hard said:

Someone angry about not being in NASA?

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Not hardly.
First off, NASA doesn't have much need for land surveyors. Mars is pretty wide open and land law doesn't mean much out there!

I have no desire to work for NASA ( unless I could be an astronaut! ).
I have no interest in the type of design work these people do, no desire to work indoors all the time and no desire to live in a city.

I'm pretty happy with what I do and where I live.

I'm just saying that an engineer is an engineer and it requires board certification and a license.
The fact that someone works for NASA and does design doesn't make them an engineer.

It's not like being an engineer makes you smart.
I've known some brilliant engineers, and some that couldn't pour piss out of a boot with the instructions written on the heel.

It's an educated profession but it's not the only intellectual field and it's not like there are not other people who are smarter than the average engineer solving problems for a living.

45_70sharps said:

For the record, I'm not an engineer.
I'm a land surveyor.
Same board that regulates, different profession.

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Sure you are, your a Geomatic Engineer!
I'm actually in school now for surveying. Unlike engineers all professional land surveyors will get licenced. they have to, It's the law. 80% of all engineers that graduate never get licenced. So yes, people who actually design bridges are not licenced. Only the person with the stamp is. So the person that establishes where the bridge goes is required by law to be licenced, but not the designers of the bridge. Seams to make sense to me. Think about that the next time your sitting in traffic stuck on a bridge.

Rdallas said:

Sure you are, your a Geomatic Engineer!
I'm actually in school now for surveying. Unlike engineers all professional land surveyors will get licenced. they have to, It's the law. 80% of all engineers that graduate never get licenced. So yes, people who actually design bridges are not licenced. Only the person with the stamp is. So the person that establishes where the bridge goes is required by law to be licenced, but not the designers of the bridge. Seams to make sense to me. Think about that the next time your sitting in traffic stuck on a bridge.

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I'm guessing that you don't have much actual experience in surveying yet then.
Surveyors, like engineers, have non licensed people working on every phase of the projects, so the guy laying out the bridge is often not licensed, just like the guy who worked on the design. They both work under the direction of the guy with the stamp.
That's an important part of going from what you learned in school to being licensed.
I personally do most of the analysis myself and explain to the guys working under me in hopes that they learn the importance of various types of information and what is needed to complete a project. I try and explain the what and why as well as any legal precedence that governs when thing aren't cut and dried.
One very important aspect of working under the licensed surveyor is that most schools don't dwell on law much since the students may be from another state, or even another county with different laws, and because laws change faster than text books.
You should be learning what's in the BLM manual, but probably not much more.
Surveying is as much a legal field as it is anything else. One difference between what most legal fields do and what a surveyor does is that the laws from the time of the original survey need to be known quite often in order to assign rights or to use proper procedures. You will find that part out soon enough.

The people working on the bridge design that aren't licensed are working under the supervision and direction of a licensed engineer. Most likely a structural at that. That licensed engineer has to check the work because he is liable for it.
If the bridge fails, if someone gets hurt, it's the guy with the stamp that goes to court and gets hammered.

Welcome to the world of surveying. When school is done just keep in mind that you have a lot to learn. Listen to the guys that have been in the field for years, listen to the guys in the office, when you reach the right point ask questions.
It's a great profession. I've been at it for over 30 years!

By the way, I've worked on surveying for quite a few bridges but none since I got my license.
Also construction surveying doesn't require a license in many states. Only boundary work.

I'm a metal fusionist.

Oh God, nearly 40 percent engineers. No wonder there's so little sense of humor here. You know I meant that in the nicest possible way.

ElyIrishBrew said:

Oh God, nearly 40 percent engineers. No wonder there's so little sense of humor here. You know I meant that in the nicest possible way.

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No, 40% THINK they are engineers. The real figure would be a lot lower.

Non-engineer, but I have to keep them in line on a regular basis...especially the young whippersnappers.

Purdue EE 2014

Some engineering industries are different. The aerospace industry is regulated by the FAA, so licensed engineers aren't as necessary. There isn't even an aeronautical section on the FE or PE exams.

Gas engineer, I work more with the values of proportion of incoming gas

(Somebody digs a road up, I go drill the mainline shove a tester in check its values, seal it, then check households for the incoming, aswell as boiler maintenance)

My business cards say engineer and it sounds better than gas man lol

the best part of this thread was when a non-engineer tried to tell everyone what it meant to be an engineer, and then tried to link them to surveying, for some random ridiculous reason.

passedpawn said:

I'm one. Not just in degree, but I actually design electronic devices, mostly medical. Schematic design, PCB layout, firmware, soldering, debugging. I have a 1-man consulting company. I know there are others here.

I just finished the board layout for a really cool O2 sensor tonight. It will measure the O2 concentration using light. I bounce red light off a tablet that contains a powder that fluoresces. There is a very small time lag (nanoseconds) between when the red light hits the tablet and when it floresces. I blast the tablet with a high-frequency sine wave then use FFT (fast fourier transform) to measure the lag in response. This lag is proportional to the amount of O2 where the tablet is.

The cool thing is that it can be used in liquid, so works with beer! Once I get it working I'll watch the O2 deplete in my carboy during fermentation. Can't wait.

Click to expand...

do it for co2, put a zigbee radio on it, make it cost $20, and i'll make you a million dollars.

Former Combat Engineer/Sapper (ARMY), Degree in Aviation, .. currently roasting Coffee!

BS Chemical Engineering - Purdue 92
BS Chemistry - Purdue 92

Profession - Process Engineer

I also like to cook.

Laughing_Gnome_Invisible said:

No, 40% THINK they are engineers. The real figure would be a lot lower.

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I finally understand all the complicated brew rigs on here. That's why they need all the lights and buttons.

EE 2012 from Bucknell University, but I do IT Consulting and only use EE stuff at home (Starting my fermentation chamber build soon)

I also enjoy cooking.


Any updates on that Venn Diagram?

Computer Engineer from RIT, class of 2007.

Currently working at ASML. And brewing a metric ****-ton.

Laughing_Gnome_Invisible said:

No, 40% THINK they are engineers. The real figure would be a lot lower.

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Aw man...I guess we better knock down the pyramids, Great Wall of China, most of Rome, etc since they weren't designed by engineers...

motobrewer said:

the best part of this thread was when a non-engineer tried to tell everyone what it meant to be an engineer, and then tried to link them to surveying, for some random ridiculous reason.

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No, never tried to link surveyors and engineers. Different jobs entirely. Different skill sets and different liabilities also.
Simply explaining what an actual engineer is and what the governing agencies are.

If they use the term "engineer" on the end of a job description, it doesn't make you one. I suspect that 80 percent of the people that report as being engineers in this survey are not engineers.
I also suspect that you would be one of the ones that think of yourself as an engineer ( for whatever reason ) judging by your being offended by the actual definition of engineer.
Go to your state's department of licensing website and look of the code ( law ) that defines what an engineer is. It's there. Compare it to any other state and the definition will be very close to the same.

I would never have any desire to be an engineer. Not my thing.
I like what I do much better, even if the pay grade for an engineer is typically higher.

you are seriously confusing "professional engineer" with "engineer".

You're confusing the description of an engineer and a professional engineer. Being licensed is not what makes you an engineer and the department of state does not define professions. If you're interested in educating yourself about the field of engineering I suggest you look into some professional societies such as ASME, IEEE, or ASCE. The professional societies are a more appropriate source of information regarding the career fields they encompass.

For the record, i agree that the your job title is not what makes you an engineer.

you didn't build that, because you're not an engineer.

motobrewer said:

you didn't build that, because you're not an engineer.

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I'm a bit ashamed to have kept this conversation going, but I'm equally entertained. Conflicted. Must inspect soul... be right back...

passedpawn said:

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Hilarious. Good work.

45_70sharps said:

No, never tried to link surveyors and engineers. Different jobs entirely. Different skill sets and different liabilities also.
Simply explaining what an actual engineer is and what the governing agencies are.

If they use the term "engineer" on the end of a job description, it doesn't make you one. I suspect that 80 percent of the people that report as being engineers in this survey are not engineers.
I also suspect that you would be one of the ones that think of yourself as an engineer ( for whatever reason ) judging by your being offended by the actual definition of engineer.
Go to your state's department of licensing website and look of the code ( law ) that defines what an engineer is. It's there. Compare it to any other state and the definition will be very close to the same.

I would never have any desire to be an engineer. Not my thing.
I like what I do much better, even if the pay grade for an engineer is typically higher.

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This is a silly debate. The OP never specified "licensed" engineers. Yes, we understand there is a difference. So what?

I am suddenly reminded of a scene from Idiocracy...


"Right, kick ass. Well, don't want to sound like a dick or nothin', but, ah... it says on your chart that you're f$@&ed up. Ah, you talk like a fag, and your s&@)'s all retarded. What I'd do, is just like... like... you know, like, you know what I mean, like.."

This is not really an insult, because I'm not technically licensed to do that.

Hamsterbite said:

This is a silly debate. The OP never specified "licensed" engineers. Yes, we understand there is a difference. So what?

I am suddenly reminded of a scene from Idiocracy...

"Right, kick ass. Well, don't want to sound like a dick or nothin', but, ah... it says on your chart that you're f$@&ed up. Ah, you talk like a fag, and your s&@)'s all retarded. What I'd do, is just like... like... you know, like, you know what I mean,i like.."

This is not really an insult, because I'm not technically licensed to do that.

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Lolol!!! The idiocracy reference sums it all up. I am going to go get a latte.

Willum said:

Lolol!!! The idiocracy reference sums it all up. I am going to go get a latte.

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and a copy of Idiocracy

Hamsterbite said:

This is a silly debate. The OP never specified "licensed" engineers. Yes, we understand there is a difference. So what

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True he didn't say licensed, but a license is what makes you an engineer instead of a tech.

Sort of like me passing yourself off as a gynecologist simply because you've inspected a few, go to the strip clubs to "inspect" random ones and like to use the title.

45_70sharps said:

Sort of like me passing yourself off as a gynecologist simply because you've inspected a few, go to the strip clubs to "inspect" random ones and like to use the title.

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But no. That would require a medical degree. Whether or not you want to be board certified as a physician is up to you, but you are still a physician either way. Sorry.

Holy crap! I did not know this!

I'm getting on the phone right now and calling everyone with which I graduated. We all went to an ABET-accredited instituion but WE ARE NOT ENGINEERS! I hope my employer doesn't find out that I'm not a real engineer, I fear all my projects may spontaneously combust if the truth comes out!

45_70sharps said:

No, never tried to link surveyors and engineers. Different jobs entirely. Different skill sets and different liabilities also.
Simply explaining what an actual engineer is and what the governing agencies are.

If they use the term "engineer" on the end of a job description, it doesn't make you one. I suspect that 80 percent of the people that report as being engineers in this survey are not engineers.
I also suspect that you would be one of the ones that think of yourself as an engineer ( for whatever reason ) judging by your being offended by the actual definition of engineer.
Go to your state's department of licensing website and look of the code ( law ) that defines what an engineer is. It's there. Compare it to any other state and the definition will be very close to the same.

I would never have any desire to be an engineer. Not my thing.
I like what I do much better, even if the pay grade for an engineer is typically higher.

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