need a 2nd opinion on this

I've got a southern english brown ale (extract w/ specialty grains) that's been in bottles about 4 months now. It's gotten better with age like all beers, but all along it's had a slight aroma of tomato juice. This has diminished slightly with aging, and doesn't really show up in the taste.

Palmer mentions that DMS can take on a tomato like character in darker beers. Has anyone had this experience?

I suspect that the cause may have been that I cooled the wort too slowly.

Thanks for your input.

Did you happen to have the lid on your kettle while cooling the wort?

I had the lid on, used an ice water bath, and did not stir. I have since learned that this is not the proper way to cool. I am purchasing a wort chiller soon, not necessarily because of this experience, just tired of the ice water bath.

uh oh... that's the way Ive been cooling my beer.... should I be stirring if I'm using the ice bath?

It is highly, highly, highly unlikely that you have DMS from an extract with specialty grains recipe since neither extract nor specialty grains have much SMM (the DMS precursor). Its difficult to get detectable DMS in an all grain ale (where you are starting with much more SMM), regardless of how you cool.

Did you use Special Roast by chance? If so was it the first time? You might be perceiving the unique tangy contribution from special roast as tomato like.

never use the lid.. and yes stir with a sanitized spoon in the ice bath. i stir when i have my wort chiller in the kettle. help aerate a little bit and speed up the cooling process

YouR beer is goingto cool muuch quicker with the top off. You're just holding the heat in. I also stir it alot, which helps the warm wort inthe center make contact with the cool sides of the pot. Stirring it into a whirlpool will also help the sediment fall into the center, reducing the ammount you get into the fermenter.

As far as the tomato goes, im not sure...

remilard said:

neither extract nor specialty grains have much SMM (the DMS precursor).

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Curious: Why would extract not have SMM in it?

remilard said:

Did you use Special Roast by chance? If so was it the first time? You might be perceiving the unique tangy contribution from special roast as tomato like.

Click to expand...

The specialty grains as follows:

.5 lb crystal 120
.25 black patent
.25 crystal 90

Walker-san said:

Curious: Why would extract not have SMM in it?

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Because SMM is converted to DMS and evolves as such during wort boiling.

First off, I ALWAYS keep the lid on while cooling. This is prime time for contamination. Especially if you're moving it around in a water bath, potentially splashing dirty water around. You need to keep the lid off during the boil to let undesirables escape, but once the boil's over, there's no reason not to cover it.

Second, SMM if going to be mostly boiled off by the extract producer. And virtually a non-issue if you boil it for another hour. With a late extract addition, it could potentially be an issue, but still not very likely.

remilard said:

Because SMM is converted to DMS and evolves as such during wort boiling.

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True, but I am not familiar with the chemical properties here to know whether the "boiling" that happens for extract would really count as "boiling" as far as SMM/DMS is concerned.

Wort is "boiled" under pressure in the process of producing extract. It's not boiled at high temps. That's why you still get a hot break with extract... It's never been hot enough before to cause a break.

So, does SMM need high temps to convert to DMS, or does it just need rolling liquid?