Sam Adams Utopias....Worth it??

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Johnnyhitch1

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Just ran into my local distributor and noticed that they recived a case of utopias....

There retailing them for $240
Ive had a small tasting of this fine beverage at a local festival during a VIP session and thought it was acually very deep and complex, wanting a bottle for myself to age and enjoy thru the years.

What do you guys think. Anybody ever buy a bottle? Over-hyped? Over-priced at my place?
 
Over priced imo. Never tried it, doubt i ever will. That much money could always be spent on something better/useful. Feed the poor with that 240$ :D
 
It's worth it in the right context. I wouldn't get it to have at random, but if you break it out on a special occasion, people will never forget it.

I paid $180 for my bottle, and it was steep even at that. But in my case, totally worth it. Considering how much time, energy, equipment, thought, and ingredients go into it, the price isn't actually that terrible. I recall on a tour of SA them saying that the profit margins aren't even that big on it.
 
Yeah a bit steep i have always wanted to have this beer. But I hear my local craft pub gets bottles and sells it 15 bucks a shot. Lol I know thats high but id rather do that then 180-260 a bottle.
 
Just buy a $100 bottle of Cognac and call it a day.

In all seriousness, if you're that much of a connoisseur then get it. You said you tried it before and liked it very much so you answered your own question.

Fugu sashimi probably isn't worth the steep price for most people either, but it's an easy purchase for the connoisseur.
 
Wow!! That's a lot of cash for beer!

I think the answer to that depends on your income.
What is $240 to you? If $240 isn't something you miss and you want to have some of the most expensive BEER you can get, then go for it.
If $240 is a lot of money and you can think of several ways to spend it on things that last, then you probably aren't going to enjoy it as much because you know you spent more than you should have.
 
I didn't care for it, so to me, not worth it. If you liked it and think you can build an experience to make it worth the price tag, then do it. I personally would spend it on other beers, but its your money.
 
Price? Meaningless.

Look at a good single malt whiskey or scotch. Johnny Walker Blue is around $300 a bottle; "The John Walker" is about $2k. I have had both and I will still take a Jameson 18 year over them because in my soul I love whiskey.

I have also had SA Utopias. IMO it is much like whiskey and not much like beer. Personally I would spend the money on something else and get a ticket to a tasting that was offering some. If you are disappointed in it you will not have a ton of cash tied into a bottle and can get something else PLUS not feel slighted; if you like it save up and get a bottle.
 
It's worth it in the right context. I wouldn't get it to have at random, but if you break it out on a special occasion, people will never forget it.
I paid $180 for my bottle, and it was steep even at that. But in my case, totally worth it. Considering how much time, energy, equipment, thought, and ingredients go into it, the price isn't actually that terrible. I recall on a tour of SA them saying that the profit margins aren't even that big on it.

This is what i was thinking (and what i would of wanted to pay) I love the brewing process and the fact this is still considered a "beer" is phenomial to me.

Going to hold off for now. Maybe find it for 40-50 cheaper.
Thx alot guys!!
 
I didn't care for it, so to me, not worth it. If you liked it and think you can build an experience to make it worth the price tag, then do it. I personally would spend it on other beers, but its your money.

Exactly, this^
 
I could easily see $15 for a shot...but not a whole bottle. I like Scotch but $99/bottle is my limit there and I only did that once.
 
I got a bottle for Christmas a few years ago. Definitely agree with the special occasion, had it the following New Years, well worth it...but again, it was a gift.

I'm not a hard alcohol fan but JW blue is worth it as well. Got a bottle with my initials etched in it for my brothers wedding. Same idea, great gift and great for special occasions. I'll break it out this Christmas and New Years.
 
It depends on your level of sophistication. If there are 25 other famous beers you could buy for $5 a bottle that you haven't had yet. Or if there are styles of beers you haven't tried yet, where you can get bottles for a reasonable price. Then there is no reasonable excuse to acquire Utopias except for vanity or prestige.

It's like shooting heroin. If you need the next high... and everything else is old-hat... and you need to go bigger... well then there's SA Utopias waiting for you. Just reach out and grab it! But, if you haven't had sours, haven't tried many $20 bottles of beer, haven't scoured the beer aisles for the unusual offerings, etc... then why spend that much cash when there are less treacherous unknown waters to be charted?

I get the feeling that when people say there's a beer for connoisseurs, every half-wit dim bulb with $200 burning a hole in his pocket rushes out and buys a bottle because "it's special" and tasting it is a symbol of status. But if you don't really know the difference, all you're really getting for it is a buzz. Hey, if money is not an object to you, go and have your buzz. Idiots, and people with money to burn, do that. It's fine. Connoisseurs do it too... but a poor connoisseur will likely invite 10 other people with and organize a tasting.... people with good palates, even if they can't afford a bottle themselves.

In summary, rich people will drink it by the bottle. People of modest means will look for the opportunity to acquire a bottle and arrange a tasting amongst like-minded people for the shear joy of it. And connoisseurs will exhaust other avenues of exploration before bothering to spend such a ridiculous sum. Utopias is a milestone for connoisseurs... but a billboard for nitwits.

As proof, consider this: If you were to list your ten favorite beers for under $10 per bottle. And were to ask beer lovers two questions: 1) Have you had Utopias? and 2) Have you had more than 5 beers on my list of ten? Who, of those two groups, do you think is the true connoisseur? And as for the person who answers yes to both... that is probably a very dedicated connoisseur whose opinions I would respect.

I remember a friend from high school.. awhile after we graduated, were maybe 19 years old... and he talking about how great Dom Perignon was, how it was far superior to other champagnes. Connoisseur? Or nitwit? You decide.

Personally, I've never had Dom. I've been in plenty of situations where it has tempted me. I've been inclined to order it... But I just frankly haven't had enough champagne in my life to know a good one from a great one. So why bother? If I were to order Dom, I'd have 10 other champagnes on hand to taste it against.... so I could really understand what the buzz was about. Otherwise, to me, it would be nothing more than some nice bubbly. Although I'm sure a true connoisseur is reading this thinking they could point me to a few even BETTER champagnes than that! Well, with someone to guide me, maybe I'd learn something and my investment would be justified. Otherwise, I'm just drinking expensive booze.

I have organized beer tastings for friends. I've collected a dozen interesting and related bottles and said, "Stop on by, let's do a tasting." but I'm a long ways from needing to spend Utopias money to get a decent education on good beer. However, if a bottle fell into my lap, or if I found several friends eager to throw $10 or $20 down to taste the beer once, I wouldn't hesitate to organize a tasting and chip in the money myself... but I don't need to do that to improve my beer-geek status. The rest of my credentials speak for themselves already.
 
Also comes down to how much spending money you got rolling around your pocket. If you'd easily drop $250 on a fancy dinner, designer shoes, golf clubs whatever, then go for it. It sure is rare and a great conversation piece.

Others might get more mileage on the $80 bottle of scotch and put the rest towards bills.

Still others might go with a bottle of Jim Beam and a 6 pack of craft beer and be totally happy.
 
I've had the '08, '10, and '12 Utopias, and IMO the '08 was the best tasting. The '10 needed about a year and a half to smooth out. I just had the '12 a few days ago, and for me it was kind of like boozy maple syrup, much as the '10 was when it was first released. I think that the '12 will also mellow out in a year or so.

It's really a matter of personal taste, and your pocketbook. I personally think that if you can afford them, they are worth having or at least tasting.
 
My wife got me a bottle for my 50th B-day. It was a '10, and was quite different, but enjoyable. At that time I was in the process of brewing my own version of Utopia. I read all the posts in the few threads on the forum, and compiled my own recipe from all the data there. After running into the same issues with a brew starting at this crazy high SG, I had to do a few other things to get it to finish fermenting. My version has ended up as a high gravity barley wine. The last time we tasted it, we compared to the SA Utopia. To be perfectly honest, the SA had a real hot jet fuel burn, where mine didn't, but the flavor was fairly close in comparison. I guess it's time for another comparison.

I would have probably not ever purchased the SA Utopia, but that was the deciding factor to move ahead and create a recipe and brew my own version. On paper I could brew 5 gallons for the price of the '08 Utopia ($150), so that is what I did. Would I buy another one, probably not. Would I try and brew another batch, hell yeah. That is what this hobby is all about.
 
Question about utopias: does it keep like whiskey or like beer? I mean, once opened do you need t drink quickly or will it last months/years?
 
Question about utopias: does it keep like whiskey or like beer? I mean, once opened do you need t drink quickly or will it last months/years?

I opened my '10 bottle a few days after I got it (around this time in '10), and did not like it at all, way too hot, boozy and maple for my taste. I shot a blanket of argon into the bottle (I keep argon around to preserve wine), put it back into my beer cooler and let it sit at 50 degrees fahrenheit.

Opened it up about 6 weeks ago when my brother-in-law was visiting, and the taste had much improved.

So I'd say that as long as you keep oxygen away from it, and store it at cellar temperatures, it should last for quite a while.

Plus, if you read about the Utopias at the Sam Adams site, you'll note that they are still blending in some of the original high ABV beer (Millenium) into the Utopias. They also mention that they'll soon have 20 years of Utopias to use in the blending process.
 
It depends on your level of sophistication. If there are 25 other famous beers you could buy for $5 a bottle that you haven't had yet. Or if there are styles of beers you haven't tried yet, where you can get bottles for a reasonable price. Then there is no reasonable excuse to acquire Utopias except for vanity or prestige.

It's like shooting heroin. If you need the next high... and everything else is old-hat... and you need to go bigger... well then there's SA Utopias waiting for you. Just reach out and grab it! But, if you haven't had sours, haven't tried many $20 bottles of beer, haven't scoured the beer aisles for the unusual offerings, etc... then why spend that much cash when there are less treacherous unknown waters to be charted?

I get the feeling that when people say there's a beer for connoisseurs, every half-wit dim bulb with $200 burning a hole in his pocket rushes out and buys a bottle because "it's special" and tasting it is a symbol of status. But if you don't really know the difference, all you're really getting for it is a buzz. Hey, if money is not an object to you, go and have your buzz. Idiots, and people with money to burn, do that. It's fine. Connoisseurs do it too... but a poor connoisseur will likely invite 10 other people with and organize a tasting.... people with good palates, even if they can't afford a bottle themselves.

In summary, rich people will drink it by the bottle. People of modest means will look for the opportunity to acquire a bottle and arrange a tasting amongst like-minded people for the shear joy of it. And connoisseurs will exhaust other avenues of exploration before bothering to spend such a ridiculous sum. Utopias is a milestone for connoisseurs... but a billboard for nitwits.

There is no "excuse" necessary, nor the need for any condesention regarding the purchase.

The bottom line is really simple. If one wants to try it more power to you. Like with most things "Is it worth it?" is only a question each can answer for themself after trying it.
 
There is no "excuse" necessary, nor the need for any condesention regarding the purchase.

What I said is only condescending if you instinctively identify yourself with the latter group. I stand by my statement and think that plenty of other people can read it without feeling the need to get defensive. I encouraged and endorsed people of modest means finding less expensive means to expand their horizons, and flatly stated that at some point, acquiring a bottle is a rather reasonable thing to do. And since I personally don't judge people like that as I seldom know them well enough to do so.... I'm sorry to say that's just your own self-perception that's making you feel a little uncomfortable there. I suggest you work on yourself rather than lashing out at others.

"Is it worth it?" is only a question each can answer for themself after trying it.

So you're saying that someone who might wind up feeling ripped off needs to actually feel ripped off before they can say that they think it might not be worth it? Someone who's never tried it can't look at the simple facts and say, "Clearly my money is better spent elsewhere"? I'm not saying it's a ripoff. I don't think it is. But you don't have to try something to realize that it won't suit your needs. I don't have to buy a Ferrari to know that I can't afford a Ferrari. I don't have to buy an RV to confidently state, with full knowledge and experience, that I don't need an RV.


As I noted, there are perfectly valid reasons for a connoisseur of modest means to justify the acquisition of such a bottle. And there are also foolish reasons to do the same. Only you can decide for yourself which side of the spectrum you fall on. And if you're feeling defensive about what I said, well then, that says more about you than it does about my viewpoint, which I stand by as being a pretty rational approach to what some folks (myself included) might consider to be a rather substantial investment in beer education. Why take that route if you are still at the point that you can try a half dozen other styles you've never had before for considerably less money? It just doesn't make sense on the basis of one's beer edification.

What if someone still learning about styles asked: What's a better investment in beer education: A bottle of Utopias, or my first Rauchbier, my first Oud Bruin, my first Flander's red, my first gose, my first Sahti, and a bottle of Dark Lord? Which would you endorse as being a better choice for someone wanting to learn about beer, who's never had any of those beers before? IMNSHO "grab Utopias because it's expensive and rare" will provide considerably less experience for your dollar. But, if you've already tried all of those.. then Utopia starts to become a pretty reasonable investment. That's all I was saying.
 
What I said is only condescending if you instinctively identify yourself with the latter group. I stand by my statement and think that plenty of other people can read it without feeling the need to get defensive. I encouraged and endorsed people of modest means finding less expensive means to expand their horizons, and flatly stated that at some point, acquiring a bottle is a rather reasonable thing to do. And since I personally don't judge people like that as I seldom know them well enough to do so.... I'm sorry to say that's just your own self-perception that's making you feel a little uncomfortable there. I suggest you work on yourself rather than lashing out at others.



So you're saying that someone who might wind up feeling ripped off needs to actually feel ripped off before they can say that they think it might not be worth it? Someone who's never tried it can't look at the simple facts and say, "Clearly my money is better spent elsewhere"? I'm not saying it's a ripoff. I don't think it is. But you don't have to try something to realize that it won't suit your needs. I don't have to buy a Ferrari to know that I can't afford a Ferrari. I don't have to buy an RV to confidently state, with full knowledge and experience, that I don't need an RV.


As I noted, there are perfectly valid reasons for a connoisseur of modest means to justify the acquisition of such a bottle. And there are also foolish reasons to do the same. Only you can decide for yourself which side of the spectrum you fall on. And if you're feeling defensive about what I said, well then, that says more about you than it does about my viewpoint, which I stand by as being a pretty rational approach to what some folks (myself included) might consider to be a rather substantial investment in beer education. Why take that route if you are still at the point that you can try a half dozen other styles you've never had before for considerably less money? It just doesn't make sense on the basis of one's beer edification.

What if someone still learning about styles asked: What's a better investment in beer education: A bottle of Utopias, or my first Rauchbier, my first Oud Bruin, my first Flander's red, my first gose, my first Sahti, and a bottle of Dark Lord? Which would you endorse as being a better choice for someone wanting to learn about beer, who's never had any of those beers before? IMNSHO "grab Utopias because it's expensive and rare" will provide considerably less experience for your dollar. But, if you've already tried all of those.. then Utopia starts to become a pretty reasonable investment. That's all I was saying.

That's a mighty grand retort for something you don't think you're guilty of, eh?

Buy what you want. Don't buy what you think or know to be a ripoff. It's really that simple, without any need for pontification.
 
That's a mighty grand retort for something you don't think you're guilty of, eh?

When did I imply that I didn't think I was guilty of it? I was just sharing my experience for the edification of others. Will Rogers once said, "Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment".

Just because I've made some purchases in my life that seem pretty dumb in retrospect doesn't mean I'm going to avoid talking about them or not encourage other people to do better than I did. Learn from others' mistakes. Life is too short to make all of them yourself.

Apparently you're the only one having trouble recognizing the "guilt" (a silly word... "regret" might be a better choice. Either way...) I see mine clear as day... and am warning people away from the same. But I'm still willing to acknowledge that, for a beer enthusiast, a ridiculously expensive bottle of Utopias might be a pretty reasonable expenditure. The only difference I can tell between you and I is that you think the purchase shouldn't be questioned, whereas I wonder if someone could possibly get more education/wisdom/knowledge for less money elsewhere.
 
Since we are on a hombrew site I have to ask why not brew yourself some?

Good question! For me, I haven't tried Utopias. If the opportunity presented itself, or if I ever saw if for sale or whatever, I would probably buy it, but I haven't sought it out. So I haven't tried to clone it. But I love Goose Island's Bourbon County Stout and have a clone in the fermenter right now. And if I got as excited over Utopias, I would probably try to clone that as well.

I did brew a barleywine once that came out around 18%... not too far off. And I know a lot more now and would definitely do better now if I were to try again. But part of it is trying the original. It's a yard-marker, it's something to measure yourself against. Without having tried the original, how do you know how close you have come? If I set out to produce a Utopias clone, you can bet that I would buy a bottle of Utopias for comparison... or for research purposes before I brewed. To be serious about a clone, you have to have familiarly with the original, or else you're just dreaming and hoping. Is it worth it? To me? Not really. I can just brew my own 20+% barleywine. I don't need Utopias as a reference point. But if you are trying to clone it, then more power to you. But it's a lot of expense, to be tasting it, just to try and brew a copy. However, buying a bottle to help you create a copy, well, I see the artistic endeavor there and I can respect that.
 
I'm interested in trying it but I'm not interested in paying that much for it. I'd rather find a place with a few bottles that's willing to sell it in small amounts and buy it by the glass as I would scotch.

I'd probably be more inclined to try making a clone than buying the actual beer just because the challenge is more interesting than buying the bottle.
 
The only difference I can tell between you and I is that you think the purchase shouldn't be questioned, whereas I wonder if someone could possibly get more education/wisdom/knowledge for less money elsewhere.

That's pretty much it. Why should I question whether or not someone wants to buy a bottle of Utopias. It's their money...I couldn't care less if their reason is "me too" or because they truly enjoy it. So what either way? :mug:
 
whoaru99 said:
That's pretty much it. Why should I question whether or not someone wants to buy a bottle of Utopias. It's their money...

Well, I honestly don't care, personally. However, if you read the title of the thread, that is the question the OP was grappling with. So, I felt it would be rude to post in his thread without doing my best to answer his question.

SA Utopias: Is it worth it?

I gave the OP an idea of how he can answer that question for himself. You... Actually didn't help answer his question at all. Your answer to the OP's question was basically: why should I care what you or other people do? Well, then why are you posting in this thread if you aren't helping the OP come to an answer to his question?

It would be like me asking whether I should have beef or chicken for dinner. One person gives me their taste preference. Another gives me an economic breakdown. Another gives me a health breakdown. Then you come along and saying they are all wrong because I should feel free to do whatever I want with my money. While you are technically correct, you aren't really helping to answer the question in any sense.
 
I would love to have the disposable income to plop down on a bottle of utopia. Honestly however if I had that kind of scratch I think I would be more like to spend it going to great regional breweries and trying some of the limited production beers, like Kate the great or pliney or such a the source where I could share the experience with others, perhaps talk to the brewers, tour the brewery, whatever. I'd much rather have a glass of a great beer among great brewers then a bottle of the best to myself.
 
I suppose I'd be more inclined to try it if I could just buy a glass, even if that glass was at an even more inflated price, like getting an ounce of the Louis XIV Remy at fancy restaurants. I'd never drop the money for an entire bottle even though I love cognac (and beer), but I would like to try it to see what it's like.
 
Well, I honestly don't care, personally. However, if you read the title of the thread, that is the question the OP was grappling with. So, I felt it would be rude to post in his thread without doing my best to answer his question.

SA Utopias: Is it worth it?

I gave the OP an idea of how he can answer that question for himself. You... Actually didn't help answer his question at all. Your answer to the OP's question was basically: why should I care what you or other people do? Well, then why are you posting in this thread if you aren't helping the OP come to an answer to his question?

It would be like me asking whether I should have beef or chicken for dinner. One person gives me their taste preference. Another gives me an economic breakdown. Another gives me a health breakdown. Then you come along and saying they are all wrong because I should feel free to do whatever I want with my money. While you are technically correct, you aren't really helping to answer the question in any sense.



My answer was probably better than yours, although you're correct I didn't address it directly to the OP. I addressed it to your pontification.

The OP said he tried it and liked it, therefore was looking for purely a value judgement, not a bunch of diatribe about how you judge people regarding their spending habits/purchases.

How is it best to answer the value question? As I did, by saying "Only you can decide if it's worth it to you."

So, to directly address the OP:

I have not tried Utopias. I do have doubts that it would be worth it to me in the end but how can I really say without trying it. So, while I have my doubts, those doubts wouldn't necessarily stop me from buying a bottle to see what it's all about and having a more informed opinion. But, where the rubber meets the road, only you can decide if it's worth it to you.
 
I catch a lot of static when I tell people that my guitar was $3,500, but I have to reply, "life is short and I had the cash".

I think it would be awesome to share a bottle of that with my family and friends, to me that is where the REAL value of it is. Put it up and save it for that special occasion!!
 
Since we are on a hombrew site I have to ask why not brew yourself some?

Because it would cost around 150 plus about a year for 5 gallons and 1 gallon wouldn't be enough if i did succeed :mug:

my father and I have drank 3 bottles of this AMAZEING brew :ban:

worth every penny

You my fine sir might have just pushed me over the edge. looking for a great Christmas/New years bottle and im stuck between JW blue or utopias...

to the guy who said pontification, amazing :D
 

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