Going to make my own grain mill, figured Id see if anyone else needs one!

Figured since I havent been brewing much in this cold weather that Id make some stuff for the brewery! Im going to start off with a grain mill. Ive seen the stuff in the market today. By the looks of them and the reviews Ive read on this forum, they all seem to work great. But being a machinist with access to cnc machines it would be a shame for me to simply buy one of these when I can easily make my own. And I figure since Im making 1 I might as well make 10 :rockin: (or more!)

So heres a question to you guys, what would you change about your current mill? Does it really need to be ajustable? Does it need the 3rd roller? Should it be motorized? 4 inch or 14 inches? Should the rollers be made from stainless steel or do they need to be hardend? What size hopper?

Let me know what you guys think.

Stainless steel rollers would be great, but they should also be hardened (heat treated and tempered would be ideal).

I don't actually have a crusher, YET... I'm actually looking to get one this month...

I would say, whatever size rollers works best, two rollers should be good, unless you really want three. Offer a handle, or ship it with one, but also make it removable and a size that you can easily place a cordless drill onto (I have one with a 1/2" chuck, but some people only have 3/8" chuck drills).

If you could make it so that you adjust just one knob, but both sides of the roller moves, that would be great. Otherwise, have a graduated adjustment knob on both ends of the adjustable roller so that feeler gauges are not needed. Proper knurling would also be a must.

Also have a base with 5 gallon bucket guide spots integrated. With the opening in the base, going directly into the middle of the bucket. A hopper would also really help (5 pound minimum) for holding the grains.

Personally, I wouldn't care if you leave the discoloration given to the steel from the heat treat and tempering process (just make sure there's no scale on it). From my experience, when making knives, that takes some work to remove.

Basically, I'm looking for an improved version of the Barley Crusher item... Not sure if you could do it for less than I can get the original for though.

I think that you are on to a good idea. I don't have one so I can't really steer you with the design but I have a few suggested features that could make this a hot item.

Keep it modular. Sell it with a hand crank that can be removed easily to use drill and a motor. Make it work well with a bucket to collect milled grains. For the hopper, design the mill to fit easily onto something that could be easily bought at a store. Selling the mill should be the goal. You could offer kits for a complete setup and everything in between. Adaptability and keeping the price down could make this the new black.

Make a good one would not mind putting them on my site.Also have quite a few friends who would test .www.coloradoorganichops.com Cheers Glen

Be glad to test the design out as well... Would provide feedback on it to help you along... I brew about every two weekends right now. With a grain mill, and the sacks o grain I hope to have on hand soon, I could do more. Of course, that will mean getting more primaries... :rockin:

mrfurlly said:

So heres a question to you guys, what would you change about your current mill? Does it really need to be ajustable?

Let me know what you guys think.

Click to expand...

I like everything Golddiggie proposes except the rollers should be 2" or larger for my requirements.

have a graduated adjustment knob on both ends of the adjustable roller so that feeler gauges are not needed. Proper knurling would also be a must.

Click to expand...

My mill has an adjustment knob on both sides.

Cheers,
ClaudiusB

I would love to help if I can/ be a tester if needed. I would love a high quality low cost mill!

ClaudiusB said:

I like everything Golddiggie proposes except the rollers should be 2" or larger for my requirements.


My mill has an adjustment knob on both sides.

Cheers,
ClaudiusB

Click to expand...

2"+ diameter rollers sounds good too... Whatever size is necessary to ensure it does a solid job.

For the adjustment knobs, are yours graduated or just threads? I've yet to see a mill that has actual graduated dials to adjust the spacing. Sort of like the old dial micrometers you can still find...

These guys have a great mill as far as I can see. Trouble is, they are in Australia. Cost way too much to get one to me in Iowa.

http://www.mashmaster.com/p/563201/millmaster-stainless-steel-grain-mill-.html

I especially like the adjustment setup, and the geared rollers. The Stainless rollers is also a good idea to keep rust off for those who keep their mill in a garage where temp change is a problem.

All in all, I think the best on the market. I would have bought one and paid more for it than I did my Monster Mill MM3-2.0. Although I will say that the 3 roller MM3-2.0 is a great mill and more than needed for a homebrewer (at least this homebrewer) I like overkill.

itsme6582 said:

Keep it modular. Sell it with a hand crank that can be removed easily to use drill and a motor. Make it work well with a bucket to collect milled grains.

Click to expand...

Having never used one (but looking to in the very near future, I could use one now but funds are short) I can't really give more opinion than this. Make it accessible to even the new guys. Easily converting it from a hand crank to a drill style motor then even a larger motor is a huge selling point.

I too would be willing to test - go figure! I could give a completely unbiased new guy review.

Id love to get in on this test group if possible I am looking to going AG asap.

-=Jason=-

If possible try and design it to be easily taken apart and assembled. This will save on shipping and you can sell it as "easy to clean" which IMO it needs to be.

Do not forget about lock washers, vibration can be pretty killer on this kind of stuff...

RonRock said:

These guys have a great mill as far as I can see. Trouble is, they are in Australia. Cost way too much to get one to me in Iowa.

http://www.mashmaster.com/p/563201/millmaster-stainless-steel-grain-mill-.html

I especially like the adjustment setup, and the geared rollers. The Stainless rollers is also a good idea to keep rust off for those who keep their mill in a garage where temp change is a problem.

All in all, I think the best on the market. I would have bought one and paid more for it than I did my Monster Mill MM3-2.0. Although I will say that the 3 roller MM3-2.0 is a great mill and more than needed for a homebrewer (at least this homebrewer) I like overkill.

Click to expand...

That is one serious mill. i just never thought there would be many guys in the market for a $500 mill!! Id like to get somewhere close to that exteme, but obviously keep the costs a little more reasonable. Id have to check on material cost, but a 2 3/4 inch stainless steel roller sounds pricey to me

1. Yes, the mill should be adjustable and ideally, it should be adjustable on the fly. It's a major PIA to deal with eccentric bushings and feeler gauges, unfortunately, that's the way it's done with most of the commonly available mills. Most people just say phuk it and live with a compromise setting rather than bothering with the hassle of adjustments. Making adjustments according to visual inspection of the grist while the mill is running is mighty convenient IMO.

2. Hardened steel rollers are fine. IIRC, stainless steel is not as hard as carbon steel and I really can't see any advantage to using SS.

3. IMO, a third roller is not at all a necessity. My little single roller mill will produce grist as good or better than any malt mill.

4. Larger diameter rollers are better. The pinch angle is narrower which helps the rollers grab the grain more easily and the contact area is larger. This becomes obvious if you visualize giant rollers vs very tiny rollers. The downside is that more torque is required to run a mill with larger rollers. The same for very long rollers as you will be crushing more grain with each revolution of the rollers. Some kind of a compromise is unavoidable as usual.

5. Large hoppers are slightly more convenient, but the downside is that they take up more space in storage. Options for different hopper sizes would be good.

6. Now then, if you are planning to sell these mills for profit, the game changes due to market demands. The bling factor comes into play. Three roller mills are higher on the bling scale and so is stainless steel. Bigger is better too.

7. Motorizing is a must IMO, but selling a motorized mill presents some additional problems. It opens up the manufacturer to much more product liability should someone get injured. It might be difficult to get UL approval too. Might be best to leave the motorizing up to the end user, but definitely make it doable.

mrfurlly said:

That is one serious mill. i just never thought there would be many guys in the market for a $500 mill!! Id like to get somewhere close to that exteme, but obviously keep the costs a little more reasonable. Id have to check on material cost, but a 2 3/4 inch stainless steel roller sounds pricey to me

Click to expand...

Actually, you don't need to use stainless steel... A good grade of steel could substitute for it... Something like D2, D3 or maybe some AUS6 or AUS8 alloy steel (if you can get it) could be really good. Especially if you get it heat treated and tempered... I think a bigger factor will be finding a place to do the heat treat and temper, properly, with minimal distorting of the round bar. If you go with case hardening, that could work, provided it's done to a decent thickness of the material.

There are plenty of high grade steel alloys out there that will perform as well, if not better, than some stainless steel allows, as long as they are properly heat treated and tempered. I would stay clear of using aluminum for the rollers. Use either high grade precision bearings, or oil impregnated bronze bushings for the rotation of the rollers. Both should provide many hours of service. If you do as already suggested, and make the unit fairly easy to take apart, replacing those should be easy. You could even include a spare set in case they do need to be replaced at some point in the future. Probably cost less to include a spare set, then to ship them later.

It would of course depend on how much it would cost, but so long as it's reasonable (something I can sell the wife on) I'd be interested in one.

If you can put a ballpark number on it I can say for sure.

I am interested as well. I am in the market to get one soon anyway.

If you can sell it, to us at least, for under $150-$200 (USD) then I think you'll have more people buying them from here... If you include a definitive way to tell what the gap is in the rollers without using feeler gauges, then you'll have a huge leg up on the other crushers in the <$300 market.

As I've already mentioned, I NEED to get one before the end of this month... So if it's not going to happen by then, I'll already have a crusher... I would still like to be able to test whatever you come up with though.

Sealed ball bearing roller journals supported not cheap shielded bearings or cheaper yet 841 oilite bushings most mills use even against rough tooled journals, this seen on a mill.
A solid means of locking your set clearance on the eccentrics and not by a steel thumb screw having the end rounded by hand resulting in egg shaped looking ends like done by hand on a 1" wide belt sander. This contacting against a radiused groove on the adjuster results every time of twisting eccentrics out of the set clearances once contacting and tightening down. This also will cause eccentrics to back out of their bores increasing roller end clearances depending on the contact of the radius on the thumb screws. Steel on steel invites eccentrics rotating, kiss off the mills set clearances.
I would use 2 1/4" to 2 1/2" diameter rollers, I like the 3 roller design at least 6" long with the drive stub large enough to support shaft side loading from a belt drive. This is where ball bearings shine doing their job vs side loading oilite bushing.
Grit, grain and dust entering bushings just doesn't sound right in the design.
Steel hardened rollers, stainless is overkill including added price, offer 10 and 20 pound hopper choices with threaded knobs for quick takedown, cleaning plus storage. That all said now all within a reasonable price. CNC, you lucky one.

418Brewing said:

(something I can sell the wife on)

Click to expand...

That about sums up the whole brewing process from day one.

keep em coming guys! the flame is lit! solidworks here I come! lol

BrewBeemer said:

That about sums up the whole brewing process from day one.

Click to expand...

Sucks to have to do that... I wouldn't know anything about going through that process...

In addition to your list, how about making it powered by plutonium? :rockin:

I can't really complain too much I got a good one, I have 9 bikes.

Golddiggie said:

For the adjustment knobs, are yours graduated or just threads?

Click to expand...

Here is the secret mechanism, very simple.

Solid locked gap positions this a great design vs relying on screw contact friction which isn't very positive possibly changing gaps while milling away.

mrfurlly said:

Figured since I havent been brewing much in this cold weather that Id make some stuff for the brewery! Im going to start off with a grain mill. Ive seen the stuff in the market today. By the looks of them and the reviews Ive read on this forum, they all seem to work great. But being a machinist with access to cnc machines it would be a shame for me to simply buy one of these when I can easily make my own. And I figure since Im making 1 I might as well make 10 :rockin: (or more!)

So heres a question to you guys, what would you change about your current mill? Does it really need to be ajustable? Does it need the 3rd roller? Should it be motorized? 4 inch or 14 inches? Should the rollers be made from stainless steel or do they need to be hardend? What size hopper?

Let me know what you guys think.

Click to expand...

No need to reinvent the wheel. Check out any current design. I think most of us are happy with our mills as they are. I would hesitate on selling a motorized mill though. Us guy's in the States are not only stupid but love to sue when we lose our fingers. I would like a 15# hopper but if I had that I would probably wish I had a 30#

BrewBeemer said:

That about sums up the whole brewing process from day one.

Click to expand...

I don't really have much trouble there. My wife likes the beer enough I can buy pretty much whatever I want within reason.

"Reason" being defined by an amount less than our income by enough margin to not interfere with regular meals, keeping the electric/water/cable on, and not significantly impacting her shopping budget.

We live far enough within our means that I can get away with spending the money to do things pretty well. Not the fanciest stuff, or even probably the next fanciest.

Hell, let's just avoid the word "fancy". I'm more of a "does it work? Okay, does spending twice as much make the beer twice as good or half the work?" kind of guy.

And I'm also trying (as best I can) to hold back and buy equipment according to my developing brewing skills. My current goal is to get a working all-grain setup put together and while I can have my grains crushed at the store, a grain mill means buying in bulk, saving per pound, and grinding on demand.

I would like the mechanism, posted by ClaudiusB, IF it actually had crush sizes (in numbers) next to the graphics, or instead of them...

I'm sure that if the OP is good with machining stuff, he can come up with a way to make each increment click/lock into place so it won't shift while in use. There are some very simple mechanisms for doing that, as shown by the above posted images.

Infinite, on-the-fly adjustment using only a single knob would be my choice. The mill I use now has this feature. No problem at all with holding a setting.

I second the ball bearing select- a- gap device with gap numbers on it.

- A 15 pound capacity hopper vice a 5 pound.
(Seems most 5 gallon batches take about 12 pounds of grains or so).
(a 5 gallon bucket holds close to 25#of grain)
- A clamp device to attach the mill bottom to a standard 5 gallon bucket (maybe that would be an option).
- Include a DIY kit option to motorize it( big wheel, small wheel, belt, motor, on/off switch). the new owner would supply a table.

Of course I would love to test it like the other brewers and put your DIY kit to test.

Snake10

Well it is on my shopping list so if you need a tester sign me up

That mill from australia looks really sturdy. If you were to just duplicate that with the select a gap, add some sturdy attachment points/tabs on top (for a DIY hopper), on bottom( for attaching to a DIY table) for close to 100 dollars, I would buy one as would everyone else on this forum.

Snake10

Golddiggie said:

I would like the mechanism, posted by ClaudiusB, IF it actually had crush sizes (in numbers) next to the graphics, or instead of them...

Click to expand...

Great idea, on my project list as #9



Cheers,
ClaudiusB

Realistically, if these really good mills are out there for $300 -$500, do you really think he can sell these for around $100? I hope so. As far as tester, do you pay for the materials plus shipping? I ask these questions because I just started a company. My product is bigger, stronger, faster (like the bionic man) than my competitor&#8217;s. In all honesty, my price is only about 20% less than theirs. I had several offers for testing, but the majority of the &#8220;testers&#8221; wanted a free one. Finally, don&#8217;t forget, he&#8217;s in Canada.

mrfurlly, good luck! Hope to see your product out there soon.

P.S. my prototype cost almost twice what they sell for now.

Dwain said:

Realistically, if these really good mills are out there for $300 -$500, do you really think he can sell these for around $100? I hope so. As far as tester, do you pay for the materials plus shipping? I ask these questions because I just started a company. My product is bigger, stronger, faster (like the bionic man) than my competitor’s. In all honesty, my price is only about 20% less than theirs. I had several offers for testing, but the majority of the “testers” wanted a free one. Finally, don’t forget, he’s in Canada.

mrfurlly, good luck! Hope to see your product out there soon.

P.S. my prototype cost almost twice what they sell for now.

Click to expand...

+1 IMO, there's no way a home brew scale malt mill could be manufactured and sold at a reasonable profit for $100, at least not in the US. I suppose the Chinese might be able to do it and I am somewhat surprised that they haven't yet done so.

I don't have a mill but its next on my list of things to buy. If you make enough to sell, keep me in the loop.

My brother in law ( God Bless him ) is planning to build a mill for me, and then drink some of my home brew beer. I will be documenting his Solid Works design and some photos of the finished mill, and pouring beer.

As it has aged the mill at my LHBS is having a harder time feeding hard grains like Black patent etc. Once it gets going it goes great but getting it started picking up the grain is becoming a pain. Part of the problem is that the non-driving roller doesn't spin as freely as it did when new, part is the knurling is probably wearing down. I think in the future if I were shopping for another mill I would look for the second roller to be driven somehow and for larger diameter rollers.

After thinking about it. Just machine a great mill and make it a DIY kit. Let us put it together! Saves in labor. Just send me a box of parts. If someone doesn't want to put it together, offer the option of a completed mill ( add 30 bucks,etc). I'll bet it can be done for under a 100 bucks and still give him a good profit margin. I would be all over the DIY thing.

How much is the mill going to cost to make and what are you going to sell them for?