Graham's English Cider

I have one other question, I am finding both filtered and unfiltered cider at the store, I just wondered if someone had tried using the unfiltered for this recipe yet?

inigomontoya said:

I have one other question, I am finding both filtered and unfiltered cider at the store, I just wondered if someone had tried using the unfiltered for this recipe yet?

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I've done it with unfiltered, it comes out about the same, if left long enough it all clears out in the end.

Well I went ahead and started this last night, ended up getting treetop sinced is was half the cost of the unfiltered. Bubbling away after 30 minutes and lots of nice activity this morning ( started last night). Looking forward to this, I just know now that I am going to have to go get another primary, since I am going to want to brew again in less than a month. Oh well

Taking the plunge with my first cider. Made a 1 gallon batch. Looking for to the Fall!

After much cajoling and berating from FreezeBlade, I've started a batch of this too! I'm using the WLP775, since it is supposed to leave the cider nice and apple-flavoured yet dry as is traditional. I can't wait (even though I have to).

I tapped my second batch of this yesterday. I had 12oz of juice concentrate standing by to sweeten it like the last batch but to my surprise this batch does not need any sweetening. I usually like to sweeten because the cider is so tart, but this one is fantastic as-is. Furthermore, the yeast was pitched just one month ago. 3 weeks in primary and 1 week in the keg.

Next time I am going to add a pound of chopped raisins to the primary. I'm told they do good things for the body, flavor, and yeast health.

Coastarine said:

Next time I am going to add a pound of chopped raisins to the primary. I'm told they do good things for the body, flavor, and yeast health.

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I suspect this is because raisins add tannins released from the skins. grape skins is where the tannins are in red wines and in commercial tannin production.

Hey there - been checking this recipe for a while now, since i've been interested in making some cider and this one looks just right. Figure if I start it soon it'll be a perfect Christmas gift!

Anyway, if you don't mind, a few questions:

1) When fermenting, does this one krausen up, or does it only make small bubbles like Apfelwein? Just trying to figure out if I can do a 5-gallon batch in a 5-gallon bucket.

2) How long does fermentation usually take? I'll probably toss this one into my swamp cooler to make sure it doesn't get too hot; just want to know how long it'll be out of commission.

3) I'm assuming that, like beer, temp doesn't matter so much once fermentation is done. Correct?

Apologies for the newb-ness of the questions - first cider over here.

Thanks!

Palefire said:

Hey there - been checking this recipe for a while now, since i've been interested in making some cider and this one looks just right. Figure if I start it soon it'll be a perfect Christmas gift!

Anyway, if you don't mind, a few questions:

1) When fermenting, does this one krausen up, or does it only make small bubbles like Apfelwein? Just trying to figure out if I can do a 5-gallon batch in a 5-gallon bucket.

2) How long does fermentation usually take? I'll probably toss this one into my swamp cooler to make sure it doesn't get too hot; just want to know how long it'll be out of commission.

3) I'm assuming that, like beer, temp doesn't matter so much once fermentation is done. Correct?

Apologies for the newb-ness of the questions - first cider over here.

Thanks!

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1. it really depends on the yeast used, I've had ones that krausen up like crazy (wlp037, wlp005, WLP400 off hand) and ones that didn't that much, (any wine yeast, lager yeasts, some ale yeasts). this being said though, I've had the same yeasts that didn't have much krausen one time krausen all over the place other times. TLDR version; shouldn't too much, but keep a blow-off handy.

2. Granted proper yeast nutrient, the bulk of fermentation should be over in a week at proper temps (in the ale range). if you keep it really cold it will obviously take much longer and maybe stall out.

3. To a point the temp after the bulk of fermentation temps won't matter. I say to a point meaning room temp will be fine (I actually ferment my ciders at room-temp-ish, 72F) but if you get upper 80's or 90's there will probably be issues.

I started a batch of this the other day. I wanted to keep it all organic and the store was out of organic limes so I used lemon. That should not mess with anything right?

Freezeblade said:

1. it really depends on the yeast used, I've had ones that krausen up like crazy (wlp037, wlp005, WLP400 off hand) and ones that didn't that much, (any wine yeast, lager yeasts, some ale yeasts). this being said though, I've had the same yeasts that didn't have much krausen one time krausen all over the place other times. TLDR version; shouldn't too much, but keep a blow-off handy.

2. Granted proper yeast nutrient, the bulk of fermentation should be over in a week at proper temps (in the ale range). if you keep it really cold it will obviously take much longer and maybe stall out.

3. To a point the temp after the bulk of fermentation temps won't matter. I say to a point meaning room temp will be fine (I actually ferment my ciders at room-temp-ish, 72F) but if you get upper 80's or 90's there will probably be issues.

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Cool, thanks for the info! Just brewed (mixed?) up a batch last night; it's bubbling away happily as I write. I'll be sure to post tasting notes in, oh, 7 months or so!

My cider came out very dry. It's taken a few months but now it's finally starting to come into its own. I'm guessing that four months is the magic number to achieve good cider.

I think you guys are nuts, the keg I am drinking from right now, which wasn't backsweetened, was pitched on 3/9/2010, 3 weeks in primary, and then a week or two in the keg before tapping. I've been drinking it for a few weeks too, it is definitely more than half gone. It is less than two months old, but it was delicious from the first glass. I will say that usually I like them backsweetened a bit and I could see how that would take less aging.

Three weeks in and I racked to secondary tonight, also harvested the yeast to wash. The 775 definitely keeps the apple flavour, quite pronounced even in this young cider. Not sure it dried out as much as I wanted, but I'll see when it's done before I make the final decision.

Hey! Just started a half batch of this...which was a mistake, should have gone whole considering how good it smells now that fermentation has started.

I had a question on bottling, you say add 4 oz of priming sugar, I'm assuming to the entire batch, prior to bottling, does this ever cause any issues with bottle bombs? And how much carbonation does this result in?

HopsMan said:

Hey! Just started a half batch of this...which was a mistake, should have gone whole considering how good it smells now that fermentation has started.

I had a question on bottling, you say add 4 oz of priming sugar, I'm assuming to the entire batch, prior to bottling, does this ever cause any issues with bottle bombs? And how much carbonation does this result in?

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4oz increases the SG of the cider by approximately 0.002 and is the same amount of sugar added to beer to bottle carbonate a batch. So no, this would cause no bottle bombs granted that the cider is fermented down to 1.000 or so previous to bottling.

Quick question, the odor coming out of the fermentation lock after two days of fermenting has gone from a nice,sweet apple smell, to that same smell tinged with sulfur. I have read that some yeasts can produce a sulfuric smell in beer, I would imagine it's also the case in ciders.

However, I have to ask, is this normal?

HopsMan said:

Quick question, the odor coming out of the fermentation lock after two days of fermenting has gone from a nice,sweet apple smell, to that same smell tinged with sulfur. I have read that some yeasts can produce a sulfuric smell in beer, I would imagine it's also the case in ciders.

However, I have to ask, is this normal?

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Very much so. Did you use the yeast nutrient? It usually helps to cut down on the sulphur production, but it won't get rid of it all.

My cider is coming along nicely, once it clears a little more I'm going to rack it to a keg. I can see through it now, but it's still quite hazy.

Excellent, thanks for the response!

Yeah, I started with a very hazy natural apple juice...which is ok, it won't ever be crystal clear, but should be tasty. I bought a separate carboy to just use as a cider container, so when this gets done, I'll be trying to find a natural, clear apple juice around here. Looking forward to hearing how yours turns out Gremlyn!

Edit: I did not use the yeast nutrient...however, I may start doing that, the odor is...unique!

Thanks, freezeblade! I'm pitching a couple gallons of this tomorrow. I really love a dry English pub cider, so I'm really looking forward to this brew! I'm glad you shared it and glad I found it.

Decided to give this one a go. Had some Wyeast 1275 on hand, so I pitched that. I wish I would have had a more flocculent yeast, but we'll see how it turns out!

I brewed a batch last night using Nottingham.

On to batch #3 of this one. Batch #1 was per the recipe and was amazing, just fantastic. Batch #2 was from local, very expensive, fresh pressed cider last fall and turned out really poor. It is not tart at all and I hope it may get better, but it is looking like it is going to go down the drain after 10 months. So a word to the wise, stick to the cheap store bought apple juice, it is perfect for this recipe.

Edcculus said:

Decided to give this one a go. Had some Wyeast 1275 on hand, so I pitched that. I wish I would have had a more flocculent yeast, but we'll see how it turns out!

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I have brewed it with the WL equlivent, WLP023. and it worked out awesome.

beerisgood: should turn out well.

Harkin: I've never tried it with anything fancier than "Simply Apple" but that's a good mental note for the future.

my starting gravity was 1.050. after 24 hours i started getting bubbles in the airlock but that has pretty much stopped now after just 3 days since pitching. tempurature is 76F.

should i be worried about a stuck fermentation or is that about average since my SG was lower?

I pitched mine with 775 as well over an unfiltered organic apple juice from a whole foods store. Primary for two weeks only and it is down to 1.004 from 1.052. Taste at racking was very dry. Hoping the juice I used to top up in the secondary puts enough sweet back into it, but could be that the aging will give it the refinement that it needs.

The drier it is, the longer it takes to taste good... Did you kill the yeast? Otherwise it'll ferment out the new sugars.

Longer isn't bad for me and I like a dry cider. Just a bit concerned that it's gotten too dry to drink, but I'm willing to let it do it's thing and see how it is near the end of the year.

copper said:

Just a bit concerned that it's gotten too dry to drink...

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No such thing!

i was concerned about a stuck fermentation so i took a gravity reading. i started with 1.050 and now have 1.010. since it is supposed to finish at 1.002 it looks like i am in good shape. i tasted the sample and it was cider-like with alcohol and no funky bacterial tastes.

QUESTION: i brewed a 4.5 gallon batch in a 5 gallon bucket. my only carboy is 6.5 gallons so i will need to secondary in a clean 5 gallon bucket. do i need to top up like i would with a wine to reduce the headroom?

if so, should i top up with good clean water or more apple juice?

Juice.

Just made a batch of this last week using Nottingham and it is the first ever batch that I needed a blowoff tube for! Crazy fermentation! went from 1.052 to 1.020 in 2 days.

Eric

Just blew my keg of this. I was so disappointed.

MarshyTheKid said:

Just blew my keg of this. I was so disappointed.

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Sounds like you should have made up another batch as soon as the first was done fermenting! never too late though.

I should really get mine into a keg finally... and then start a fresh batch.

I have some extra 5 gallon better bottles i am not using should I be ok start some 4 gallon batches in them. should I change the amount of tea bags and limes?

Freezeblade said:

When I bottled the cider was very clear (although not quite crystal clear, as the picture is), the smell was nice and apply, but the taste was green. I don't know how else to describe it, but there is this flavor that is associated with dry cider that is too young, it's not apply at all, or even fruity even, just kinda...I guess sort of bitter. Needless to say, that's why you let it sit for a while, this pint after aging was perfectly divine, apply, fruity, a little tart and with a nice mouthfeel. A perfect example of why dryer ciders need aging.

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I have been reading this thread for inspiration and advice. I have four one-gallon experiments going in the basement. Thanks for posting and explaining your recipe. When my experiments are done with local pressed juice I will be doing a big batch of your recipe with store juice.

Here is a dry vs sweet cider question: I just racked two gallons to secondary today and tasted my hydrometer samples. These are apple juice with key lime juice and some wine tannin. They definitely have a "green" or plastic taste and I am expecting them to get better with time. When people crash, keg, and drink a cider before it ferments dry, does the remaining sugar cover up these tastes, or are they a result of the fermentation to dryness? Does anybody have any guesses?

When I racked two cysers with enough honey added to get to 1.090, they were dry but these flavors were not there. These were from the same juice but did not have lime or tannins added.

themax said:

When people crash, keg, and drink a cider before it ferments dry, does the remaining sugar cover up these tastes, or are they a result of the fermentation to dryness? Does anybody have any guesses?

When I racked two cysers with enough honey added to get to 1.090, they were dry but these flavors were not there. These were from the same juice but did not have lime or tannins added.

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Easy answer on my part. Who knows? I built this recipe to be dry, and have never done a sweet or semi-sweet batch using the same recipe. After sufficiant aging the cider tastes good, before that it tastes all sorts of strange green and not too good, depending on the juice/yeast used. My guess with the cyser, if it's young, has green mead flavors covering the green cider ones, especally as almost half the fermentables are from honey.

Freezeblade,
I just started my first batch or cider last Saturday. Didn't see this recipe until today and was wondering if it would be to late to do the lime and tea addition. I used store bought juice, 1lb of sugar, WLP775, and had an OG of 1.056. Fermentation has been rockin since less than 18hrs after I pitched. Oh yeah I also added yeast nutrient to this batch. So is the lime/tea addition a go? Thanks for posting this recipe!

Cheers

Edit: Going to make the additions per Freezeblades recommendation via PM. Can't wait for this one....

I just made a 5 gal batch exactly like the recipe in the OP.

Was I supposed to dissolve the nutrient before I added it? I just dumped everything in without stirring.

Or will the action from fermenting mix things up?